Political correctness.

smartcooky said:
How wonderful for you!

I'm sure there are many examples of teachers being joy makers etc, etc.

I would in fact hope that ALL teachers were like that, but the sad fact of life is that they are not. There are many examples of the sorts of things I posted happening, and THEY SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING AT ALL!

Can we agree on that at least, that they should NOT be happening at all!!
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You mentioned John Walker referring to 'how sport is run in schools'
Not that occasionally something might happen of which you disapprove, but 'how sport is run in schools'.
I showed you were wrong

ETA I think it quite possible that your anecdotes are partial anecdotes, that the boy pumping his fist may well also have been showing unacceptable behaviour towards others and the boy throwing up his hands in celebration may also have shown an unsporting attitude. And I also wonder what is wrong with giving others a turn.
 
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kerikiwi said:
You mentioned John Walker referring to 'how sport is run in schools'
Not that occasionally something might happen of which you disapprove, but 'how sport is run in schools'.
I showed you were wrong
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Did you? Where?

ETA I think it quite possible that your anecdotes are partial anecdotes, that the boy pumping his fist may well also have been showing unacceptable behaviour towards others and the boy throwing up his hands in celebration may also have shown an unsporting attitude. And I also wonder what is wrong with giving others a turn.
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There is nothing wrong with giving others a turn, so long as it is not in a competitive situation. Pulling the team's star player just to "give someone else a turn" lets down the other members of the team who have worked hard to get where they are.

Also, these three anecdotes (as you call them) were directly from my own personal experience as a teacher; I was there, watching when they happened. Are you now seriously telling me that I didn't understand fully what I saw?

The boy who won the race didn't look back at anyone or make any rude gestures, he just flung his arms in their air, just like any other winning athlete would, and was slammed down by a humourless teacher for the simple reason of being happy about winning.

The young tennis player mimicked Rafa (copying his hero). It was very similar to this....

Again he didn't look back at his opponent or make any rude gestures, yet his action was judged as "arrogant".
 
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I think there is no point in casting doubt on all these anecdotes. Things like that obviously do happen. Political correctness does have its excesses and some people take it way too far.

Still, some things are an improvement. It used to be that if some kid got an answer wrong he would have to sit in the corner or get a dunce's cap put on him or his hands slapped with a ruler. Did these measures make those children improve and become smarter? Apparently not, from most accounts it was always the same kids being slapped on the hands with the ruler and made to wear the dunce's cap.

Anyway, here's an article by the late author of Flashman bemoaning how the world went to the dogs in a PC mad handcart.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ans-creator-How-Britain-destroyed-itself.html
 
smartcooky said:
Also, these three anecdotes (as you call them) were directly from my own personal experience as a teacher; I was there, watching when they happened. Are are now seriously telling me that I didn't understand fully what I saw?
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I apologise for calling them anecdotes: what are they?
I am seriously telling you that you may well have filtered the events through your own prejudices, and that you did not necessarily have all the relevant facts.
 
kerikiwi said:
I apologise for calling them anecdotes: what are they?
I am seriously telling you that you may well have filtered the events through your own prejudices, and that you did not necessarily have all the relevant facts.
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Well, I reject that wholeheartedly. I know what I saw and heard.
 
Here's a good example of the type of schooling that went on before the dreaded spectacle of PC:

All the boys at School House, Shrewsbury, knew of this abuse. The identities of Trench’s special victims were also well known. Peel quotes the then headmaster of Shrewsbury, Jack Peterson, describing the reaction when, in 1952, he disclosed the name of the new housemaster to the boys at School House. ‘There was first an audible intake of breath, then the widest grins on all faces and finally when I got out of the room a pandemonium of excited and happy chattering.’ Peterson, whose lack of contact with schoolboys was legendary, took this to be a sign of delight at Trench’s appointment. In fact, as I clearly recall, the laughter was mainly in mockery, the chattering in amazement, distress and even fear. Only two years previously Trench had been ‘house tutor’ (with extensive powers to beat boys) and his passion for bare bums was the subject of much gossip. Older boys with broken voices and hairs on their legs had nothing to worry about. Treble-voiced, smooth-legged classics students should try to keep out of his way. Most of the older boys who remembered Trench were inclined to excuse his strange behaviour on the grounds that he had had ‘a bad war’ – at least six months building the Burma railway as a prisoner of the Japanese. I could never quite understand why ill-treatment by the Japanese should drive a man to child abuse, so I am delighted to find the Burma excuse put to flight by Francis King, a school contemporary of Trench’s. He remembers Trench the schoolboy as ‘supercilious, capricious and cruel’ long before the Japanese ever laid a finger on him.

Mark Peel describes the floggings at Shrewsbury as ‘a real outlet for Trench’s unabated enthusiasm and carefree simplicity’. His line is backed up by other, older boys of the time who insist that Trench’s beatings didn’t do them any harm. My own often expressed hostility is explained away by Peel with reference to my supposed political antagonism to Trench. I am ashamed to admit that when I was 14 or 15 at Shrewsbury I had no political views at all. Nor is the case for or against Trench a rerun, as Peel pretends throughout, of the old argument for or against corporal punishment. Enthusiasm throughout the public schools for corporal punishment obviously provided a cover for Trench’s consistent abuse. But Trench was assaulting boys in his charge for one reason only: his own sexual gratification.
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http://www.lrb.co.uk/v18/n17/paul-foot/diary
 
angrysoba said:
I know. These days everyone should be treated completely equally regardless of what they may or may not have done.

In the spirit of political correctness I hereby declare that everyone hang their head in shame.
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So it's not about 3 posters having a disagreement?
 
smartcooky said:
I guess you can't knock political correctness when it gives you such wonderful new stuff....

Kids Schoolyard Games
Visually Impared Person's bluff
Personhunt
Postperson's knock
Caucasianhorse

etc...
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I had an acquaintance who came here from communist China. Within her first year or so, she picked up "the polticially correct guidebook" or whatever it's called, taking it seriously. It said things like this, over and over. Even lacking the deep social background, she pieced together it was a joke book for Jeff Foxworthy types. Well, that's my way of putting it, but she realized it was a book for the humor section, not the social skills section.

I should have her explain to you how she figured that out.
 
smartcooky said:
And if they aren't interested because there is no competition,
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There is competition. We just encourage winner and loser equally much.

smartcooky said:
no pay-off at the end,
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The pay-off is a healthy body and mind, and a better confidence.

smartcooky said:
no feel-good, then what?
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There's loads of that.

smartcooky said:
When I see local schools that, in my time both as a student and as a teacher, used to be able to field three Rugby XVs (I played for the Third XV as a 13 year old and progresses to play First XV as a sixth former), three Cricket XIs, four Soccer XIs, and a whole load of Track & Field athletes, and now they can only field one (and in cricket, they even struggle to do that) then I know there is something wrong systemically.
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Probably not with the schools, though. And definitely not with political correctness.

smartcooky said:
I think Sir John Walker is exactly right about how sport is run in schools. I have seen some of this first hand...
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Let's agree to disagree then.

smartcooky said:
► an eight year old boy who threw his hands in the air in celebration when he won a sprint race on Wednesday afternoon sports, only to be told off by a teacher for being inconsiderate towards the kids who didn't win;
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I don't believe you.

smartcooky said:
► standing down the rugby team's best player to "give another boy a turn" (that player's father eventually pulled him from our school team end he ended up playing for a club junior grade team instead);
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The right thing to do with children's sports.

smartcooky said:
► a kid who "fist pumped" when he scored a winning point playing tennis (imitating Rafa?) gets a telling off for being arrogant.
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I don't believe you.

smartcooky said:
In all these cases, the teachers are being killjoys, and are, whether they understand it or not, discouraging excellence, and encouraging the idea that you must keep your head down and and not be overtly proud of your achievements. Its Political Correctness and Tall Poppy Syndrome of the worst kind.
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Nope.
 
uke2se said:
Because you're the one who started the derail and can't drop it.
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Nonsense! All I have ever said is that if you are going to "call BS" then you need evidence. Every time I restated that point the other two posters responded by misrepresenting me and my posts.

It is clear why you want me to let them do that without comment - you're on their side.
 
psionl0 said:
Nonsense! All I have ever said is that if you are going to "call BS" then you need evidence.
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...you. snipped. the. evidence.

You then ignored the evidence.

Are you like twelve?

Let it go already. joesixpack called BS and provided reasons why he called it BS and you intentionally ignored it, deleted it, and now you keep harping on about it. Since that post we have provided evidence in support of our position and you have ignored it. smartcooky attempted to support his position and failed spectacularly.

Your position is lame.

Every time I restated that point the other two posters responded by misrepresenting me and my posts.
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Incorrect.

It is clear why you want me to let them do that without comment - you're on their side.
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What side am I on?
 
psionl0 said:
Nonsense! All I have ever said is that if you are going to "call BS" then you need evidence. Every time I restated that point the other two posters responded by misrepresenting me and my posts.

It is clear why you want me to let them do that without comment - you're on their side.
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Nonsense. Smartcookie made several questionable claims. I said they were false. It is incumbent on the claimant to provide evidence. This canard that my challenge is in fact some sort of claim is preposterous. It seems suspiciously biased that you don't hold Smartcookie to the same standard to which you hold me.

Do I have to PROVE that vaccines don't cause autism when I call BS on the antivax people? Of course not.
 
uke2se said:
I don't believe you.



The right thing to do with children's sports.



I don't believe you.



Nope.
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I think it is more than possible that some teachers have done this. I don't see why we should quibble over it. I don't think that it is the norm in schools for students to be admonished for celebrating.

However, here's a nice story.

When my dad first went to school, his teacher read his name out of the register and paused, looked up suspiciously and asked, "Are you David's brother?"

"Yes!" replied my dad cheerfully.

"Then come to my room after class."

My dad went along and was given a thrashing with the cane and told that he would be thrashed harder if he started to turn out like his brother!

Fun days before political correctness.
 
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