2 questions re 1120 'Missing bodies' from WTC 1&2 & media complicity in mass murder

[CORed]

If you want your gravitational "collapse" model to make sense, you do need to explain it. Explosives are the answer Occam's Razor would derive. Your answer requires many more conjectural gymnastics. If you claim no explosives, then you need to explain these outcomes.

We've explained it in great detail. Your utter failure to understand is your problem, but we keep going because it's rather amusing.

 

[beachnut]

... Concrete as a major component. http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2005/1165/508OF05-1165.html

...

The major componenst of WTC dust are...
identified slag wool (a man-made vitreous fiber, MMVF), gypsum (CaSO4_2H2O) (or anhydrite (CaSO4)), and phases compatible with concrete as signature components of the WTC dust.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2005/1165/508OF05-1165.html#heading05
Man-made vitreous fibers (MMVF) are abundant in WTC dust.
Gypsum (CaSO4_2H2O) and anhydrite (CaSO4), along with a variety of other hydrated Ca sulfates are the primary components of wall board (drywall). ...
Man-made vitreous fibers (MMVF) are abundant in WTC dust. Glass fibers range ...

You have no point. You can't explain how much energy it takes to destroy a human body, and then ignore there is enough energy from the WTC collapse to destroy 26,000 bodies.

Insulation, drywall, and concrete - the insulation included the ceiling tiles. You can destroy the ceiling tiles with your hand, and the insulation under the floors with your fingers, and the wallboard with a fist. Energy budget, can you do one? No.

Then you say this which means you can't do physics.

Beachnut, about your physics: imagine tilting wtc sideways. Then accelerate it with 0,7g for 10 seconds. Tere goes 70 % of your e=mgh. Then pulverize the concrete. That is not possible if you used all the potential energy of the building - concrete does not pulverize more than c. 10% from ground impact -it crumbles to small/big pieces, but not to dust, more than about 10%. Look it up from any gravitational destruction of concrete.

...

Please explain, "there goes 70 percent of E=mgh"? Go ahead, try.

You come with fantasy of explosives, silent ones, no blast effects. And you ignore the murder of thousands, by 19 nuts, trying to blame someone else for the acts of 19 murderers. Blaming who? You can't define your fantasy past the BS you have posted which only expose your complete disregard for math and physics. (I am actually using the value to destroy a horse corpse, and the real value to destroy 1300 humans is most likely closer to 2 or 3 percent of the E=mgh released, another value you can't check, because you don't do science.)

The best part of your claims, you can't do the math and physics to explain how much energy it takes to expect stuff on 911. You can't take the energy of collapse and realize it is more than 260 2,000 pounds bombs worth of destruction. You can't do physics, you make up fantasy. Should have taken physics in high school; what did you take instead? Did you do what Charlie Sheen did, but skipped the money part?

Physics debunks your lies of CD.

 

[CORed]

...
Nobody "fell" anywhere except those who jumped.
...

Now THAT'S Stundie material. Excellent!

 

[tsig]

When the big building was way up high it was full of air.

But when it was way down low it was empty.

Where did the air go?

Where is the air?



I can probably go a little slower, but not much. Keeping up so far?

If you go any slower you;ll be backing up.

 

[CORed]

...
Explosives are the answer Occam's Razor would derive.
...

Only if the question is, "What's the third most retarded explanation for 9/11." I'd give you first, but Judy Wood's Directed Energy weapons and several other people's mini-nukes beat you out.

 

[Jbui]

You posted this...



...just 3 minutes after I had explained it all to you, and while I was still doing some edits. Perhaps you missed my post? Directly above yours.


Let us do a quick calculation on a simple model:

Let us assume that the first floor to collapse did so by coming down vertically, at 0.7g, until it hit the floor below.

Each story was 12 feet high. Subtracting 4 inches for the thickness of the concrete slabs plus a bit for ceilings, floor covers, office contents, that will work out to a drop distance of 3.5 meters (being European, I prefer metric).

0.7g is 6.8635 m/s²
Velocity after moving s=3.5 m at a=6.8635 m/s², from rest, is
v(3.5 m) = SQRT(2*a*s) = 6,93 m/s.
And this took
t(3.5 m) = SQRT(2*s/a) = 1,01 s.
Let's make that 1 s even

The story, from floor to metal deck, has an volume of 63*63*3.5 meters filled mostly with air and movable objects. That's 13,891.5 m³ of air, which get blown mostly out the windows (some can escape up and down the core shafts, giving rise to pressure pulses in other stories). Window openings are 2/3 of the width of the facades (column width is close to 1/3 column distance center to center) - 63*4*2/3 = 168 meters - and 2,34 meters high (vertical distance between spandrels), so air can escape through a maximum of 393.12 m² of openings.
Of course, openings get smaller as the floor collapses - from 393.12 m² to 0. I'll ignore that effect for the moment.

So 13,891.5 m³ of air are escaping through 393.12 m² of openings within 1 s of time - that should work out to an average air speed of over 35 m/s = 127 km/s = 79.5 mph (just divide the two numbers).
This is ignoring that openings get smaller as the floor collapses. Near the end of that second, with collapse velocity the highest and openings the smallest, nozzle velocities will be MUCH higher than that.

Starting from a height of ca. 300 meter (South Tower; North Tower higher), objects of suitable size should be able to travel some distance when blown out with such high winds.


On the second floor and all that follow, air will escape a lot faster (although more victims from the plane crashes were probably above the first collapsed floor than below - a bit more tricky to assess collapse velocity of the floors above relative to the collapses zone where floors are piling up).


ETA:



We need two mechanisms for the dismemberment of people: One that accounts for body parts that were ejected during the collapse. You already agreed that the plane crashes can easily account for more than 100 victims being shred to suitable pieces. And another that accounts for those bodies not identified at all. That one is easy, too: They all fell from a hieght of 300 or higher, and had an average of 10-12 floors collapsing down on them, in a chaotic avalanche of 300,000 tons of steel and concrete per tower. And then their remains were subjected to weeks and months of fires, then rain, possibly episodes of acidic considtions etc., all of which degrade body tissue to an extent that can make it unrecognizable or unidentifyable.

You seriously underestimate air pressure and air speeds as floors 63x63 meters wide collapse. See above.

We have two explanations. You incorrect one, and the reality I just described.

There are two major flaws in your theory that you don't take in to account:
1. if roof collapses, the air is surely blown out. But does it move any of the heavier components in the room? Imagine the roof falling on your head. Does every object including yourself blow out of the window before getting pinned by the roof. Surely all the air and light particles like dust and paper might fly out of the window. But nothing solid.

2.Take a hairdryer, put it in full power, put on the table, and walk 5 meters away from it and place some object comparable to a human bone there. Does the hair dryers airpressure move that object? No. You can barely feel the airpressure after few meters.

So one puff of air does not move objects and neither does it have any effect after few meters. We can see this with the towers - nothing solid flies from the impact floors and the puff of smoke travels only few meters.

 

[beachnut]

There are two major flaws in your theory that you don't take in to account:
1. if roof collapses, the air is surely blown out. But does it move any of the heavier components in the room? Imagine the roof falling on your head. Does every object including yourself blow out of the window before getting pinned by the roof. Surely all the air and light particles like dust and paper might fly out of the window. But nothing solid.

2.Take a hairdryer, put it in full power, put on the table, and walk 5 meters away from it and place some object comparable to a human bone there. Does the hair dryers airpressure move that object? No. You can barely feel the airpressure after few meters.

So one puff of air does not move objects and neither does it have any effect after few meters. We can see this with the towers - nothing solid flies from the impact floors and the puff of smoke travels only few meters.

You can't do physics, so you make up hairdryer failed analogies.

But what is driving your crazy claims of CD. Hate? What? More fantasy?

The PNAC guys wanted an excuse for wars and nazi-laws and police state laws, they leased WTC, put guys in Ace elevator overalls to install wireless charges composed of nano engineered, layered superthermite charges to the core and outer walls, put some patsies to hijack aeroplanes, but remotely flew them to the towers, pentagon, and one was shot down in Pennsylvania. After that they counted on having the mass media block all evidence like WTC7 fall, and their own guys to handle investigations etc.

Then came youtube and other video services, and here we are, Internet full of evidence that can not be mentioned on the mass media, and e.g. KSM trial going on but none of the abundant material presented and handled in the case.

PNAC? This is super silly.

 

[Jbui]

Then you say this which means you can't do physics.
Please explain, "there goes 70 percent of E=mgh"? Go ahead, try.

If you accelerate an object, you need energy. If that object is a huge skyscraper, you need a whole bunch of energy. If your potential energy is E=mgh, and you use 70% of that g to speed up the skyscraper, then all you have left is m*0,3g*h, when 0,7g has already been used to speed up the skyscraper.

The skyscraper is designed to have safety factor of 3-5 times the mass that it has on it, so it could absorb at least 3mgh energy. Yet 0,3mgh was able to snap the steel superstructure to nice pieces(note, no tilting, bendind, or other natural performance of steel structure under heavy load, but steel beams cutting loose and flying away 200meters), and grind most of the stuff inside to fine dust, and warm up the dust so it could burn all the cars nearby etc..

 

[Jack by the hedge]

...Nor did you answer how this debris gets into the space between the next two floors that are pancaking.

I'm really struggling to think of a way to make it simplistic enough that even the deliberately slow can grasp it.

Try to picture a layer of debris consisting of smashed up floors and all the contents that were between them.

Got that image?

Now consider that the next two floors to pancake together are the floor above this layer and the floor below this layer.

That means the debris is between the next two floors coming together.

QED

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If you accelerate an object, you need energy. If that object is a huge skyscraper, you need a whole bunch of energy. If your potential energy is E=mgh, and you use 70% of that g to speed up the skyscraper, then all you have left is m*0,3g*h, when 0,7g has already been used to speed up the skyscraper.

The skyscraper is designed to have safety factor of 3-5 times the mass that it has on it, so it could absorb at least 3mgh energy.

No. That last sentence is wrong. The safety factor you refer to is not described in terms of mgh.

You do not appear to understand the difference between static and dynamic forces. Briefly it's the difference between the number of bricks you could support balanced on your head and the result of dropping those bricks on your head from an upstairs window.

Each floor of the building may well be designed to support a static load 3-5 times as heavy as the floors above it, but that does not mean it's designed to survive the hammerblow of those floors dropping onto it from one floor up. It's a completely different concept.

 

[beachnut]

17 lies with assorted nonsense

The PNAC guys wanted an excuse for wars

This is a lie. PNAC said something would have to happen to reshape the military for new threats. PNAC has no army, save Dick's shotgun he uses on his friends...
I think PNAC was wrong, and it was clear when we took out the Taliban with a few, the proud, special forces. You seem paranoid.

and nazi-laws and police state laws,

Two more lies. What nazi-laws? What is a nazi-law? Is that like 911 truth? What police state do you live in? BS.

they leased WTC,

Another lie.

put guys in Ace elevator overalls

Another lie.

to install wireless charges

A stupid lie.

composed of nano engineered,

Making the lie dumber.

layered superthermite charges

Layered? LOL, extra stupid to round out the lie.

to the core and outer walls,

No thermite damage found on any steel.

put some patsies to hijack aeroplanes,

Another lie. 19 terrorists put themselves on planes to murder.

but remotely flew them to the towers,

Another lie, no remote control, all four planes were stock, and proved to be stock by RADAR, which tracked them from takeoff to impact. Proved wrong by science, the stuff you avoid.

pentagon,

You debunked 911 truth claims of no planes, but added the lie of remote control. What a stupid fantasy, remote control, which would add a billion dollars to the project, and thousand of people. What a failed fantasy.

and one was shot down in Pennsylvania.

Shot down? Another lie. Flight 93 impacted with all systems running, I have the FDR which shows this; why don't you? Right you use youtube videos made by nuts as your evidence. Wow.

After that they counted on having the mass media block all evidence

Your PNAC fantasy controls the whole world except youtube? lol

like WTC7 fall, and

What WTC 4, WTC 5, WTC 6? lol, you sure are gullible and silly.

their own guys to handle investigations etc.

NTSB is in PNAC's pocket?
FBI is in PNAC's pocket?
ABC is in PNAC's pocket?
FAA is in PNAC's pocket?
USAF is in PNAC's pocket?
NORAD is in PNAC's pocket?
Navy is in PNAC's pocket?
Army is in PNAC's pocket?
DoD is in PNAC's pocket?
NBC is in PNAC's pocket?
FOX is in PNAC's pocket?
NYPD is in PNAC's pocket?
FDNY is in PNAC's pocket?

Another lie.

Then came youtube and other video services,

Wow, you are saying idiots who lie about 911 on youtube are your evidence? lol, this is nonsense.

It is on the Internet, it has to be true...

and here we are,

Yes, you are here by mistake at a skeptic forum which emphasize education and critical thinking. You bring lies about 911 based on your ignorance of physics.
You bring lies about 911 based on stuff you found on youtube, lies you adopt because you hate PNAC, or something.

Internet full of evidence

The Internet you used to make up your fantasy, is full of lies, hearsay and fantasy.

that can not be mentioned on the mass media,

Because what you have is nonsense. Not news.

and e.g. KSM trial going on

So, your claims are fantasy and KSM is proud he helped kill people on US soil. Proud to kill, as proud as you are to spread lies, and ignore physics.

but none of the abundant material presented and handled in the case.

What?

You can't figure out 911 because you failed to take physics, and think the Internet has evidence to support your fantasy version of 911.


Proof you can't do physics, yet you think you can.
Your use of the Internet as your evidence for your 911 fantasy, is like your knowledge of physics.

If you accelerate an object, you need energy. If that object is a huge skyscraper, you need a whole bunch of energy. If your potential energy is E=mgh, and you use 70% of that g to speed up the skyscraper, then all you have left is m*0,3g*h, when 0,7g has already been used to speed up the skyscraper.

The skyscraper is designed to have safety factor of 3-5 times the mass that it has on it, so it could absorb at least 3mgh energy. Yet 0,3mgh was able to snap the steel superstructure to nice pieces(note, no tilting, bendind, or other natural performance of steel structure under heavy load, but steel beams cutting loose and flying away 200meters), and grind most of the stuff inside to fine dust, and warm up the dust so it could burn all the cars nearby etc..

This is your best physics.
It is called nonsense.
Who will take on this nonsense? You have no clue what physics is.

 

[CORed]

If you accelerate an object, you need energy. If that object is a huge skyscraper, you need a whole bunch of energy. If your potential energy is E=mgh, and you use 70% of that g to speed up the skyscraper, then all you have left is m*0,3g*h, when 0,7g has already been used to speed up the skyscraper.

The skyscraper is designed to have safety factor of 3-5 times the mass that it has on it, so it could absorb at least 3mgh energy. Yet 0,3mgh was able to snap the steel superstructure to nice pieces(note, no tilting, bendind, or other natural performance of steel structure under heavy load, but steel beams cutting loose and flying away 200meters), and grind most of the stuff inside to fine dust, and warm up the dust so it could burn all the cars nearby etc..

You really need to quit trying to pretend you have a clue about physics. All you are doing is embarrassing yourself.

 

[dafydd]

You really need to quit trying to pretend you have a clue about physics. All you are doing is embarrassing yourself.

And entertaining us, if you can forget about the total disregard for the memory of the victims. Twoofers are attention seekers who don't give a toss about the victims.

 

[beachnut]

Falling People can't die, E=m*0.0g*h, because all energy used to speed them up at g

So why then you have intact bodies of people who jumped from WTC? Only guts were spilled and bones crushed, but the rest was in one piece and easily identifiable.

Wait, according to your physics, the people who jumped are not injured at all. All the E=mgh they had was used up accelerating them at g. When the hit the ground there was no energy left to kill them; they walked away. According to your physics, that is what had to happen.

If you accelerate an object, you need energy. If that object is a huge skyscraper, you need a whole bunch of energy. If your potential energy is E=mgh, and you use 70% of that g to speed up the skyscraper, then all you have left is m*0,3g*h, when 0,7g has already been used to speed up the skyscraper. ...

Using Jbui special 911 truth fantasy physics...

then all you have left is m*0.0g*h, because 1g has already been used to speed up the body. We have zero energy left to smash the body, the person walks away, because all the energy was used up, according to your physics.

Good luck.

Don't try this at home in the real world. Special idiotic 911 truth fantasy physics only works in the minds of 911 truth followers, who can't do physics.

 

[ergo]

Picture a layer of debris consisting of smashed up floors and all the contents that were between them.

Got that image?

Now consider that the next two floors to pancake together are the floor above this layer and the floor below this layer.

That means the debris is between the next two floors coming together.

It's okay, Jack. You can stop trying.

 

[Justin39640]

Um, how would the bodies get crushed before the colliding floors impact? The air being expelled must be displaced before the floors can meet each other.

Collisions. Steel wasn't thrown by air pressure either.

 

[fuelair]

Reading the OP I had a gut feeling that he was right, but it was just gas prior to a wet, stinky fart.

I ALMOST blew soda all over my keyboard and monitor.....

 

[fuelair]

Is it just me or has our OP toddeled away???

 

[beachnut]

m*0,3g*h

So why then you have intact bodies of people who jumped from WTC? Only guts were spilled and bones crushed, but the rest was in one piece and easily identifiable.

How was it easy? You give 19 terrorists a pass, as if they did not exist. How do you get 19 people to commit suicide, your patsies? Like your physics, a big failed fantasy. What country do you come from? (failed physics, m*0,3g*h)

I did the math with better information. To completely obliterate 1300 bodies, it would take 2.16 percent of the E=mgh in both towers. That is equal to 11,500 shot gun blasts for each body... 911 truth has no idea how much energy was released on 911 in the gravity collapse. No clue.

No one in 911 truth can check the math, they don't do math. No one in 911 truth has any clue how much energy it takes to destroy a body, they don't do reality.

Do you know how much energy it take to destroy a body beyond recognition? No. You don't do physics. You think you are doing physics but with your version of physics, people can't die from falling because all the energy is used up accelerating them at g.

 

[Oystein]

There are two major flaws in your theory that you don't take in to account:
1. if roof collapses, the air is surely blown out. But does it move any of the heavier components in the room? Imagine the roof falling on your head. Does every object including yourself blow out of the window before getting pinned by the roof. Surely all the air and light particles like dust and paper might fly out of the window. But nothing solid.

2.Take a hairdryer, put it in full power, put on the table, and walk 5 meters away from it and place some object comparable to a human bone there. Does the hair dryers airpressure move that object? No. You can barely feel the airpressure after few meters.

So one puff of air does not move objects and neither does it have any effect after few meters. We can see this with the towers - nothing solid flies from the impact floors and the puff of smoke travels only few meters.

I have rarely seen objections this stupid.

1. We are not talking about moving "any of the heavier components in the room". We are talking about moving small body parts shredded by the plane crashes. So this objections doesn't even address the issue

2. I showed you that the average velocity for ALL the 13,000+ cubic meters of air throughout the entire floor will be >35 m/s. A small, hend-held hair drier at 5 meters distance will cause only very low air velocities, so the comparison is silly and stupid.
You better think of a hair drier that is 207 feet across and can blow 13,000+ cubic meters of air per second.


Truthes always fail to grasp the enormous scale of the masses and velocities involved in the WTC events. If they were able to grasp them, they would not be truthers.