2 questions re 1120 'Missing bodies' from WTC 1&2 & media complicity in mass murder

[ergo]

How can you be so ... obtuse?What part of this is difficult?

Lol. This from a 9/11 bedunker.

Floors, furnishings and bodies crushed in one impact become a filler of loose debris in the space between two more floors which are about to impact.

How does this filler of loose debris get into the space between the next two floors which are about to impact?

 

[dafydd]

Explain it for us then, Cored.

DGM claims the body fragments were expelled when the air between the floors was expelled. How did the bodies get crushed before the air was expelled?

Are you being serious?

 

[ergo]

That would be true only if we were talking about totally intact structures. This obviously is not the case.

DGM, you said it yourself just upthread:

You do know all the air on every floor has to move so the floors can collapse down.

So what are you arguing now?

 

[DGM]

DGM, you said it yourself just upthread:



So what are you arguing now?

Where does that imply they were intact?

As far as why we're arguing this, I have no idea. I suspect just so you can keep the argument going.

Would you like to explain how it happened?

 

[ergo]

Would you like to explain how it happened?

No, I would like you to explain it. Your model so far is very foggy and has many contradictory elements.

 

[DGM]

No, I would like you to explain it. Your model so far is very foggy and has many contradictory elements.

I wasn't presenting this as a model, this is not something that needs to be explained. The towers were filled with air and the upper floors were coming down. There was large amounts of hard materials being mixed and ground together. The collapse front was several floors high. Bodies were found fragmented. This is seen in the videos. It's not a model, it observation and fact.

What do you think would do what was observed if you don't accept what seems self evident. Enrich us, enlightened one.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

How does this filler of loose debris get into the space between the next two floors which are about to impact?

I will use small words.

There is a big building.

A floor in the middle gets squashed. Stuff breaks.

The very big bit above falls down.

The broken stuff in the middle is falling. There is another floor under it.

The big bit on top falls down on the broken stuff and on the next floor below.

More stuff gets all broken.

There is another floor under that broken stuff.

The big bit falls down more.

Am I going too fast for you?

 

[DGM]

I will use small words.

There is a big building.

A floor in the middle gets squashed. Stuff breaks.

The very big bit above falls down.

The broken stuff in the middle is falling. There is another floor under it.

The big bit on top falls down on the broken stuff and on the next floor below.

More stuff gets all broken.

There is another floor under that broken stuff.

The big bit falls down more.

Am I going too fast for you?

I bet you can't say that 110 times in the time it took the towers to fall.


INSIDE JOB.

Just try "clunkity..clunk.

 

[ergo]

I will use small words.

There is a big building.

A floor in the middle gets squashed. Stuff breaks.

The very big bit above falls down.

The broken stuff in the middle is falling. There is another floor under it.

The big bit on top falls down on the broken stuff and on the next floor below.

More stuff gets all broken.

There is another floor under that broken stuff.

The big bit falls down more.

Am I going too fast for you?

Lol. Saved for posterity.

Here, folks, is the 9/11 bedunker WTC collapse-and-grind model! Is he going too fast for you??

Jack, do you understand the part about displacement of air? Do you understand why you are trying to answer my question?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Jack, do you understand the part about displacement of air?

When the big building was way up high it was full of air.

But when it was way down low it was empty.

Where did the air go?

Where is the air?



I can probably go a little slower, but not much. Keeping up so far?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Do you understand why you are trying to answer my question?

For entertainment value only.

 

[ergo]

Actually, your posts are kind of like filler, aren't they? Kind of like loose, junky debris.

When you can answer the questions that were posed to you about your model, get back to me.

In essence, you need to explain how the bodies got fragmented before the air was expelled during this crushing/pancaking force.

Your reference to loose debris 'filler' is non-explanatory. Nor did you answer how this debris gets into the space between the next two floors that are pancaking.

 

[Oystein]

You posted this...

Air pressure from the building accounts to 10-20m flight. And that would require the body to be preground to tiny bits. Otherwise we would need it first to stay inside to be pinned and fall down to get ground up.

If you want to experiment, climb to the roof of a tall building, put e.g. piece of meat with some bones in it on the edge, drop a concrete tile on it, and measure if you can get those pieces flying 200m. You can apply free fall, no need to take the steel superstructure into account.

I'm very sorry for your loss, I'm very sorry for all the lives lost due to war on terror. Your friend goes to same category with +1.000.000 other victims.

What Actually happened? do you want a 1000 page version or 50 word version?

...just 3 minutes after I had explained it all to you, and while I was still doing some edits. Perhaps you missed my post? Directly above yours.


Let us do a quick calculation on a simple model:

Let us assume that the first floor to collapse did so by coming down vertically, at 0.7g, until it hit the floor below.

Each story was 12 feet high. Subtracting 4 inches for the thickness of the concrete slabs plus a bit for ceilings, floor covers, office contents, that will work out to a drop distance of 3.5 meters (being European, I prefer metric).

0.7g is 6.8635 m/s²
Velocity after moving s=3.5 m at a=6.8635 m/s², from rest, is
v(3.5 m) = SQRT(2*a*s) = 6,93 m/s.
And this took
t(3.5 m) = SQRT(2*s/a) = 1,01 s.
Let's make that 1 s even

The story, from floor to metal deck, has an volume of 63*63*3.5 meters filled mostly with air and movable objects. That's 13,891.5 m³ of air, which get blown mostly out the windows (some can escape up and down the core shafts, giving rise to pressure pulses in other stories). Window openings are 2/3 of the width of the facades (column width is close to 1/3 column distance center to center) - 63*4*2/3 = 168 meters - and 2,34 meters high (vertical distance between spandrels), so air can escape through a maximum of 393.12 m² of openings.
Of course, openings get smaller as the floor collapses - from 393.12 m² to 0. I'll ignore that effect for the moment.

So 13,891.5 m³ of air are escaping through 393.12 m² of openings within 1 s of time - that should work out to an average air speed of over 35 m/s = 127 km/s = 79.5 mph (just divide the two numbers).
This is ignoring that openings get smaller as the floor collapses. Near the end of that second, with collapse velocity the highest and openings the smallest, nozzle velocities will be MUCH higher than that.

Starting from a height of ca. 300 meter (South Tower; North Tower higher), objects of suitable size should be able to travel some distance when blown out with such high winds.


On the second floor and all that follow, air will escape a lot faster (although more victims from the plane crashes were probably above the first collapsed floor than below - a bit more tricky to assess collapse velocity of the floors above relative to the collapses zone where floors are piling up).


ETA:



We need two mechanisms for the dismemberment of people: One that accounts for body parts that were ejected during the collapse. You already agreed that the plane crashes can easily account for more than 100 victims being shred to suitable pieces. And another that accounts for those bodies not identified at all. That one is easy, too: They all fell from a hieght of 300 or higher, and had an average of 10-12 floors collapsing down on them, in a chaotic avalanche of 300,000 tons of steel and concrete per tower. And then their remains were subjected to weeks and months of fires, then rain, possibly episodes of acidic considtions etc., all of which degrade body tissue to an extent that can make it unrecognizable or unidentifyable.

You seriously underestimate air pressure and air speeds as floors 63x63 meters wide collapse. See above.

We have two explanations. You incorrect one, and the reality I just described.

 

[DGM]

In essence, you need to explain how the bodies got fragmented before the air was expelled during this crushing/pancaking force.

You got that wrong. You want him to, there is no need.

What would be good is if you explained how this actually matters.

I doubt you will.

 

[ergo]

We need two mechanisms for the dismemberment fragmentation of people: One that accounts for body parts that were ejected during the collapse...

They all fell from a hieght of 300 or higher, and had an average of 10-12 floors collapsing down on them, in a chaotic avalanche of 300,000 tons of steel and concrete per tower. And then their remains were subjected to weeks and months of fires, then rain, possibly episodes of acidic considtions etc., all of which degrade body tissue to an extent that can make it unrecognizable or unidentifyable.

And then wind blows the bone bits up and around lower Manhattan? This explanation is nonsensical. Nobody "fell" anywhere except those who jumped. And conjecturing about the remains in the debris is not only just conjecture but is irrelevant to what you need to answer.

 

[ergo]

You got that wrong. You want him to, there is no need.

If you want your gravitational "collapse" model to make sense, you do need to explain it. Explosives are the answer Occam's Razor would derive. Your answer requires many more conjectural gymnastics. If you claim no explosives, then you need to explain these outcomes.

 

[DGM]

If you want your gravitational "collapse" model to make sense, you do need to explain it. Explosives are the answer Occam's Razor would derive. Your answer requires many more conjectural gymnastics. If you claim no explosives, then you need to explain these outcomes.

Explain how explosives fits into Occam's Razor? You do know physics supports the gravity collapse.

This should be good.

 

[The Platypus]

If you want your gravitational "collapse" model to make sense, you do need to explain it. Explosives are the answer Occam's Razor would derive. Your answer requires many more conjectural gymnastics. If you claim no explosives, then you need to explain these outcomes.

How could Occam's Razor conclude the answer is explosives, when there is absolutely not a shred of evidence of explosives. It's 9/11 kooks that are attempting all sorts of conjectural gymnastics to claim explosives.

Your projection isn't fooling anyone. And clearly you haven't got the foggiest clue what Occam's Razor is or how it works.

 

[CORed]

When the big building was way up high it was full of air.

But when it was way down low it was empty.

Where did the air go?

Where is the air?



I can probably go a little slower, but not much. Keeping up so far?

Where did the air go? I think it was dustified by Directed Energy Weapons powered by a hurricane.

 

[CORed]

How could Occam's Razor conclude the answer is explosives, when there is absolutely not a shred of evidence of explosives. It's 9/11 kooks that are attempting all sorts of conjectural gymnastics to claim explosives.

Your projection isn't fooling anyone. And clearly you haven't got the foggiest clue what Occam's Razor is or how it works.

This is the guy, after all, who was tripped up by the "tonne of feathers" vs. "tonne of concrete" questions. He's hoping we've forgotten. I haven't.