LDS

[tsig]

Forgot to post this last night, but I asked my mother (she has a Spanish BoM) and she says it's just as infallible in another language as it is in English. So I suppose any errors are going to be printers' errors again, using their get-out-of-jail-free card.
As for the perfect Bible, I think the answer is that there is no extant perfect bible here on earth, which is why we need prophets with a direct line to god. Odd how god never shows any supernatural knowledge that might help us, but god has always been a rather quirky fellow.

I see, the BoM is the most perfect word of god if it's correctly printed.

 

[Cleon]

Brigham Young said some unfortunate things, as recorded in the Journal of Discourses. You are well aware of that.

You know, I can respect that POV. I really can. The recognition that Young was a racist, as a human being capable of making mistakes but the Church has tried to grow past that. I think that's totally understandable, and pretty much in line with how most people view their history; the Founders of the US had some very "unfortunate" (to use your, IMO overly mild, word) views of their own, but that doesn't stop Americans from holding them in high regard.

I cannot respect Janadele's POV, which is to pretend that either the "unfortunate" statements never happened or that they were not in fact "unfortunate."

 

[Janadele]

Foster Zygote,The point of this particular discussion to which my reply regarding of Negro descent refers, is how those excluded from holding the Priesthood were identified as being of Negro descent. Beside the obvious fact that they themselves would probably know, if they did not, then the Lord's representatives would.

 

[RandFan]

Janadele, the plain and simple truth is that if a person had black skin that person couldn't hold the priesthood. That's a fact. I've posted the relevant scriptures and quotes from 3 different prophets, all say "black" or "black skin".

That is absolute nonsense.

There are none so blind than they who will not see.

"Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness?

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages

For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of blackness

...wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto [the Nephites] the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

“For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the bareness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people..."

So, that's 3 prophets, BofM and PofGP. That's not nonsense, those are facts.

 

[Akhenaten]

Foster Zygote,The point of this particular discussion to which my reply regarding of Negro descent refers, is how those excluded from holding the Priesthood were identified as being of Negro descent. Beside the obvious fact that they themselves would probably know, if they did not, then the Lord's representatives would.

How?

 

[Empress]

Foster Zygote,The point of this particular discussion to which my reply regarding of Negro descent refers, is how those excluded from holding the Priesthood were identified as being of Negro descent. Beside the obvious fact that they themselves would probably know, if they did not, then the Lord's representatives would.

That's interesting. Negros apparently have a supernatural ability to tell when they are Negros. I'm assuming this ability does not involve looking in the mirror, b/c Negro=/= black, correct? I'd like to hear more about this if you wouldn't mind expounding a bit.

 

[RandFan]

Foster Zygote,The point of this particular discussion to which my reply regarding of Negro descent refers, is how those excluded from holding the Priesthood were identified as being of Negro descent. Beside the obvious fact that they themselves would probably know, if they did not, then the Lord's representatives would.

Patently dishonest. The prophets and scriptures all say "black skin" or "black". I've demonstrated that. It wasn't just your convenient scape goat Brigham Young.

 

[Janadele]

Akhenaten. The organisation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on revelation and guidance from Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

 

[RandFan]

Akhenaten. The organisation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on revelation and guidance from Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

Why did men that spoke on behalf of god use the words "black skin"?

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages

Why did the prophet Joseph Fielding Smith differentiate between black people and white people?

 

[jsfisher]

Akhenaten. The organisation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on revelation and guidance from Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

...as revealed and oft-times contradicted by confirmed scam artists like Joseph Smith and bigoted scum bags like Brigham Young.




(You're welcome.)

 

[Pup]

Foster Zygote,The point of this particular discussion to which my reply regarding of Negro descent refers, is how those excluded from holding the Priesthood were identified as being of Negro descent. Beside the obvious fact that they themselves would probably know, if they did not, then the Lord's representatives would.

I was trying to figure this out last evening. What would a branch president circa, say, 1922 do if a very tanned new member, who was adopted and knew nothing of his genetic heritage, asked to join the church and receive the priesthood?

The most logical answer I could come up with was "pray about it." And I think that matches Janadele's answer.

The things the branch president (or whoever had the final authority within the church for deciding) would actually be taking into consideration would be how the person self-identified, how the community identified him, and how the other members would react to him.

In other words, for anyone close to the dividing line, like in America in general, it would be a cultural decision on a case-by-case basis, more than a genetic decision, despite the one-drop concept supposedly in place.

Forgot to post this last night, but I asked my mother... (snip for brevity's sake)

Thanks!

 

[Cleon]

Akhenaten. The organisation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on revelation and guidance from Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

They hide it well.

 

[RandFan]

Americans are very forgiving. The Mormon Church can get past it's racist past but it needs to be honest and forthright. When someone tells you that it's not the color of a person's skin and yet the scriptures and prophets repeat again and again "black skin" then you wonder why? People don't like to be lied to. I can't think of a worse spokesperson for an organization than one who will deny the plain and evident truth. "Black skin". Blacks could not hold the priesthood in the Mormon Church. There isn't a single person reading this that doesn't know that to be a fact. I grew up Mormon. I graduated seminary (a high school course) and served a mission. Not once did I ever hear anyone distinguish between "negro" and "black". That's a fiction invented out of whole cloth and it is unbecoming.

 

[Akhenaten]

Akhenaten. The organisation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on revelation and guidance from Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

Yeah, I've already figured out that it's all make-believe, but that doesn't answer the question of how to identify who's a negro and who isn't.

And for Isis' sake don't insult my intelligence by trying to tell me that a holy spook whispering in some old geezer's ear is all the answer I need.

Even DOCs responses are more meaningful than that.

 

[TjW]

Yes, because without the dangly bits, you can't get proper holy reception and god has to talk to you over aggrivating static.

All I can say is, it's not much of a God who's never heard of a slot antenna.

 

[Pup]

And for Isis' sake don't insult my intelligence by trying to tell me that a holy spook whispering in some old geezer's ear is all the answer I need.

The difference between American slang and Australian slang produces an unusual mental image in that sentence.

 

[carlitos]

Whoever was first to mention the "I know 'em when I see 'em" wins the golden calf this round.

...
Janadele could use the same criteria that the Apartheid government used. Simples.

• Stick a pencil in their hair and see how easy it is to pull out.
• Measure their noses and cheekbones.
• "the eyelid test" to see how much their eyelid color contrasts with the rest of their skin.
• Feel their earlobes for pliancy.
• Check their genitals for color.
• Body hair exam.
• Soccer or rugby?
• Bed height - high or low?
• Beer or liquor?
• Job held?
• Accent?
• "I know it when I see it" - that Spanish-looking chick has signs of a dusky admixture.

....

You can send the calf to me via PM or post it here. Bonus points if you can find another use for the word "dusky."

Janadele, the plain and simple truth is that if a person had black skin that person couldn't hold the priesthood. That's a fact. I've posted the relevant scriptures and quotes from 3 different prophets, all say "black" or "black skin".

That is absolute nonsense.

Unfortunately for you, we can all read RandFan's posts. For you to call them nonsense is, well, I don't even know what it is. Delusional?

Akhenaten. The organisation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on revelation and guidance from Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

For lack of a more polite phrase, horse feathers. Again, the rest of us can read the whole thread. It's all right here.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Foster Zygote,The point of this particular discussion to which my reply regarding of Negro descent refers, is how those excluded from holding the Priesthood were identified as being of Negro descent.

Yes, that's what we're asking you. How is someone identified as being of negro descent?

Beside the obvious fact that they themselves would probably know, if they did not, then the Lord's representatives would.

Those are weasel words.

 

[RandFan]

Unfortunately for you, we can all read RandFan's posts. For you to call them nonsense is, well, I don't even know what it is. Delusional?

I know.... right? Who you gonna believe, Janadele or your own lying eyes?

 

[showmevegas]

Akhenaten. The organisation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on revelation and guidance from Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

Does the LDS church have any physical items related to Joeseph Smiths interpreting the golden tablets? I'm thinking maybe hat,sheet, seer stones, tablets or portions thereof. Honest question.