LDS

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Janadele said:
The personal opinions of ex members, or of current members, is not the topic of this thread.

No one has the right to hold the Priesthood of God, it is a privilege, authority and responsibility bestowed by Him at His own time upon those He chooses.
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You just assert things and refuse to address questions. Why should we believe you?
 
abaddon said:
She cannot say without proving her churches racism, so she dodges.
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Ironically, Joseph Smith was something of an abolitionist (albeit tempered by social pressure). Brigham Young seems to be the one right bastard racist that poisoned the Church doctrine for so many years.

So, first God allowed blacks to be priests when Smith was the official spokesperson, then God changed it mind when Young held the God-o-phone, then eventually God recanted. The Sharpie of Damnation must have dried out, I guess.

Serious question: In Mormon doctrine, is God portrayed as infallible?

As a practical matter, history shows clearly He was not, but what is formally taught?
 
Janadele said:
The personal opinions of ex members, or of current members, is not the topic of this thread.

No one has the right to hold the Priesthood of God, it is a privilege, authority and responsibility bestowed by Him at His own time upon those He chooses.
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Except women, god's not able to bestow the Priesthood on women.
 
Janadele said:
It was the Negro male... whether from America, the Congo, or Tim Buck Too. It was not the Maori, the Koori, the Samoan...
What is offensive about Negro? It is the name of the race. As is Asian etc
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What year do you think it is?

I'll give you a hint... It isn't 1952.
 
tsig said:
Except women, god's not able to bestow the Priesthood on women.
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Well, he can, being god and all, but he just chooses not to. 'Cause girls are icky and we bleed and stuff. You'd think if he found us so offensive he would have just not created us, but then I suppose he'd have to deal with his raging homophobia.

jsfisher said:
Serious question: In Mormon doctrine, is God portrayed as infallible?

As a practical matter, history shows clearly He was not, but what is formally taught?
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Yes. Mormons worship Yahweh like the other Abrahamic religions and teach that he's omni-everything. God is by definition perfect, despite the hideous monstrosity Yaweh shows in the OT and the downright stupidity Jesus shows in the NT.

Oh, and unlike Catholics, to Mormons Yahweh, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three separate personages, not all one.
 
Empress said:
Yes. Mormons worship Yahweh like the other Abrahamic religions and teach that he's omni-everything. God is by definition perfect, despite the hideous monstrosity Yaweh shows in the OT and the downright stupidity Jesus shows in the NT.
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So we have a perfect God and the inerrant translation of His word both of which are the continual target of revision by us lesser beings. Yep, LDS is a keeper.
 
jsfisher said:
So we have a perfect God and the inerrant translation of His word both of which are the continual target of revision by us lesser beings. Yep, LDS is a keeper.
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LDS has an out for the inerrant word, at least as to the Bible. They believe that the Bible is the word of god--"so long as it is translated correctly". JS was actually working on a new translation of the Bible before he murdered, which was no doubt up to his usual standards of "translation". I think it went to his wife and son after his death, so it would now be the property of the Community of Christ (Reorganized LDS), though I'm not sure of that. But anything they don't like in the Bible, they can claim wasn't translated correctly. Just as any errors in the BoM are printer's errors, like those pesky deer/horses.
 
Hokulele said:
Fine. The position of the Church is a bunch of bigoted nonsense, and is one of many reasons why I am glad to be no part of it.
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Careful now! The LDS World Police might just be called on you to stop these baseless attacks on an innocent church!
 
Empress said:
LDS has an out for the inerrant word, at least as to the Bible. They believe that the Bible is the word of god--"so long as it is translated correctly". JS was actually working on a new translation of the Bible before he murdered, which was no doubt up to his usual standards of "translation". <snip>
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"So long as it is translated correctly."

If JS was working on a new translation at the time of his death, then it follows that the LDS church actually doesn't believe the entire original was translated correctly. Hence not really "the word of God". Hence the reliance on the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, etc.

Or am I missing something?

No offense intended to Cat Tale, but it appears the Mormon Church does come with built in copouts. Not that that makes it different from any other religion, but the hypocrisy is always noteworthy.
 
Janadele said:
A reminder that the topic of this thread is the Doctrines and Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The position of the Church regarding the holding of the Priesthood by worthy males of Negro descent has already been answered. De railing of threads is against forum rules... start another thread if you wish to discuss off topic matters.
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The topic is LDS. After having followed this thread for quite some time, I can see that it largely hews to the topic of LDS (aside from your bizarre sidetracking into the lyrics of your favorite hymn and bringing up non-existent international Internet rules). I cannot take your complaints seriously.

Several relevant questions have been asked and have been met with mindless parroting of Mormon dogma interspersed with holier-than-thou indignation and demands that we keep to your topic. I can't find any honest answers in any of your posts.

I don't know if you have noticed, but this is not Mormon Sunday school. There are no little children here who can be silenced or intimidated by "because-I-said-so". This is an internet forum largely populated by adult skeptics. Skeptics are people who don't take wild/suspicious claims at face value. Mere assertions of "truth" won't cut it; you actually have to provide credible evidence to get skeptics to agree with you. You have failed miserably in this endeavor.

Janadele, I know you will probably ignore this, but I'd feel remiss if it hadn't been said. You are a laughingstock for me and for a few others, I'd wager. Carry on.

Oh, and here's a passive-aggressive smiley: :)
 
desertgal said:
"So long as it is translated correctly."

If JS was working on a new translation at the time of his death, then it follows that the LDS church actually doesn't believe the entire original was translated correctly. Hence not really "the word of God". Hence the reliance on the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, etc.

Or am I missing something?

No offense intended to Cat Tale, but it appears the Mormon Church does come with built in copouts. Not that that makes it different from any other religion, but the hypocrisy is always noteworthy.
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Yep. They not only don't believe that the Bible is the whole of scripture, but that you can't rely on it to be accurate. Which is particularly funny as JS clearly ripped of the KJV for his own writings. BoM, D&C, clearly derivative works from the KJV. Which is not translated correctly. Which is why they need a living prophet. Who is required by god to take multiple wives. Until god changes his mind. The same god that hates Cain and his descendants so much that he cursed them with a skin of blackness and will never allow them to hold the Priesthood. Until he changes his mind.

I think god is senile. Or high.
 
desertgal said:
"So long as it is translated correctly."

If JS was working on a new translation at the time of his death, then it follows that the LDS church actually doesn't believe the entire original was translated correctly. Hence not really "the word of God". Hence the reliance on the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, etc.

Or am I missing something?
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That's the standard claim: the Book of Mormon etc. are done by direct inspiration from God, while the Bible is translated by men, though Smith did a once-over of pretty much the whole Bible and it's honestly almost identical to the KJV, with just a few word changes here and there.

That brings up two other questions that hadn't occurred to me before.

When the Book of Mormon is translated into another language, does it have a disclaimer that it's now only the word of God so far as it's translated correctly? Or is a Spanish-language Book of Mormon, for example, considered to be a divinely inspired translation too?

If the Bible is correct only so far as it's translated correctly, does that mean that there's an existing perfectly correct Bible in Greek and/or Hebrew?
 
Empress said:
Yep. They not only don't believe that the Bible is the whole of scripture, but that you can't rely on it to be accurate. Which is particularly funny as JS clearly ripped of the KJV for his own writings. BoM, D&C, clearly derivative works from the KJV. Which is not translated correctly. Which is why they need a living prophet. Who is required by god to take multiple wives. Until god changes his mind. The same god that hates Cain and his descendants so much that he cursed them with a skin of blackness and will never allow them to hold the Priesthood. Until he changes his mind.

I think god is senile. Or high.
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You mean, until God changes His mind again. First, blacks were allowed into the priesthood, then not, and now again.
 
Empress said:
Yep. They not only don't believe that the Bible is the whole of scripture, but that you can't rely on it to be accurate. Which is particularly funny as JS clearly ripped of the KJV for his own writings. BoM, D&C, clearly derivative works from the KJV. Which is not translated correctly. Which is why they need a living prophet. Who is required by god to take multiple wives. Until god changes his mind. The same god that hates Cain and his descendants so much that he cursed them with a skin of blackness and will never allow them to hold the Priesthood. Until he changes his mind.

I think god is senile. Or high.
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Or just hates bad press and political incorrectness.

Take the FLDS. Does the LDS Church endeavor to distance themselves from the FLDS and Warren Jeffs simply because of the polygamy issue...or mainly because of the notoriety and bad press the FLDS has received? I tend to think it's the latter, and that if society at large hadn't turned a cold shoulder towards polygamy, the LDS Church would still be practicing it.

Same with the issue of blacks in the priesthood. It's not without logic to wonder if the "vision" received by the "prophet" may have included a legal action based on discrimination and brought against the church.
 
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