2 questions re 1120 'Missing bodies' from WTC 1&2 & media complicity in mass murder

[Scott Sommers]

Wait a second.

You said that "millions" are "demanding" a "new investigation".
I showed youz it is actually only some thousands.
You were wrong by a factor of 1000

You said that "thousands" are marching for 9/11 truth, but the videos you linked support only tens, or at most hundreds.

I must have missed this in all the gibberish.

No, no...this is quite wrong. Demonstrations held in the NYC by We Are Change on 9/11 are the largest street actions in the world. In the last few years, including the 10 year memorial, they have not been able to attract more than 120-150 people. I have clear videos and photos of this and have counted the number who attended. I know most of their names up until 2009.

In other places and especially outside the USA, the numbers are never more than a few dozen.

If anyone has information to the contrary, post this on Youtube and I will give you 10,000 US dollars.

 

[dafydd]

We are not talking about the passengers or people in thise floors, since I agree that those people probably were torn in pieces. We are talking about the remaining +1000 people that were also blown into peaces.

You still have to provide proof that they were blown to pieces. You are making the cardinal truther error of believing that saying something makes it true. There is plenty of proof that they were shredded.

 

[dafydd]

In other places and especially outside the USA, the numbers are never more than a few dozen.

.

I don't think that there has ever been a large protest march about 911 in Europe. There may be a handful or twoofers over here.

 

[Scott Sommers]

I don't think that there has ever been a large protest march about 911 in Europe. There may be a handful or twoofers over here.

I think there are a few. DRG gets a few people at his talks when he goes to Europe. There are also We Are Change groups throughout Europe. But then I personally have started 3 WAC groups, so this could mean anything. Ya, there would be a handful. That's a good way to describe it.

This is back in 2006, but there's a few dozen.

 

[Justin39640]

Here is good scientific evidence of bombs and nukes at the WTC, on youtube. The video has successfully passed peer-review with 7 likes, and 0 dislikes.



I think I answered

the question and solved the puzzle.

FTFY
Ick lol

 

[LSSBB]

I think there are a few. DRG gets a few people at his talks when he goes to Europe. There are also We Are Change groups throughout Europe. But then I personally have started 3 WAC groups, so this could mean anything. Ya, there would be a handful. That's a good way to describe it.

This is back in 2006, but there's a few dozen.

Man, you ARE THE SHILL!

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

Ironically, as already pointed out (you missed that), you are correct. You are a parody of 911 truth, the best 911 can be.

Making fun of people murdered by terrorists; what you do best, cause you don't do physics.

CTs; be them 9/11 Truthers , Holocaust deniers or Sandy Hook massacre deniers all share an inability to feel any compassion or empathy for the suffering and deaths of other people.
They are by definition sociopaths.

 

[000063]

Well, we know it wasn't explosives. There were no explosives detonation sounds. Explosives dogs did not find explosives. The sound of explosives detonating ~ 3,000 people, over 100 floors into small pieces would have been deafening.
4. Rain, firemen dousing fires with water. Drainage system collects water and its debris. Seems you don't know this.

Including to the people in the towers who survived the collapse.

It's a very rough average. Where did you get your figures?

And do you agree with the description provided by Wolrab of how people and things got pulverized in the progressive floor collapses of the two Twin Towers?

It's really sad that you have to try and get debunkers to disagree with each other instead of being able to disprove them yourself.

Static meaning if you want to surpass the safety factor of the building and bring it down using gravity. This is of course very inefficient way. To build up kinetic energy, you need to have less structural resistance than weight on to of that, otherwise collapse slows down, like what happened with WTC2 hitting WTC3

That's not the definition of static.

Obviously it's much less energy, work, etc, to bring down a skyscraper with some exlplosives than gravity, otherwise CD's would be done by loading stuff on top of the building.

Verinage is done by removing walls and letting the building's weight collapse itself. Also, "obviously"? In what sense?

for the core structure to disapper, it had to be blown up. It was the single most strongest part of the building. If just the floor connections would have failed, the core would be left standing and maybe tipped over.

Actually, the core did collapse last.

When you use explosive that releases it's energy fast, you can demolish buildings, but if you release it slow, like burning some jet fuel, you are left with just a big fireball. Key is to attach the explosive right to the part which is to be demolished, direct the all the energy towards the object(shaped charge) and release the energy very rapidly(nano technology). this is how you can do the same demolition job with much less energy.

Nano technology has little to do with the speed of release.

Why am I even bothering?

Jbui, I would suggest not answering Oystein's questions until he has answered yours. Or anyone, for that matter. Reversing burden of proof is a common strategy they employ to avoid facing the obvious. And if you get into their meandering and non-sensical questioning, the original purpose gets lost in the confusion. Just a suggestion.

AHAHAHAHAHA.

Because you totally haven't avoided a question in this very thread by pointing to a question of your own.

Oh, look, a "meat grinder". Look at the floors failing progressively, smashing people and furniture in between them, getting all "scrambled" up, and then somehow simultaneously spewing them in all directions up and out. What an energetic series of floor failures!

Those floors must be so heavy that they just instantly smash each other, and all their contents, furnishings, people, desks, file cabinets, marble slabs, safes, all into fine particles, and then somehow still have enough energy to propel themselves in their particulate state laterally for hundreds of feet! What a MASSIVE progressive floor failure!

You can't even strawman properly.

Yes, that's almost exactly what is claimed, barring the "up and out" portion. (It was just "out".) If you have anything more than incredulity to rebut it, feel free to present it.

What is unusual about the mutilation? I have read and seen numerous stories on people in collapsed buildings, and they are never in small pieces. As I already told you, you can shred a body to pieces by shooting it with shotgun from close range or exploding a vest of dynamite. But not with gravity. Even the 9/11 jumper was in one piece. Now if shredding is impossible, the shredding and bouncing 600 feet becomes a pure miracle with gravity. if you need to fly 600feet, but same time be in the wtc meat grinder - you would have to be in two places in the same time. And both flying 600 feet and being shred to small pieces are both impossible by gravity, but they Are both natural result of being next to huge explosion.

No one claimed it was just gravity, but the pieces of the building being thrown around in the collapse by the massive amount of energy in play. And no jumper survived any of the higher falls. About 200 people jumped to their death, and they sure didn't end up in one piece. "When they hit the pavement, their bodies were not so much broken as obliterated." If you mean Buzzelli, he wasn't a jumper. And you can't back up the 600ft comment. In fact, you never actually admitted being wrong about 1000ft.

It is amazing how just about every word you say is wrong.

some of the 9/11 Truthers claim mannequins were thrown out of the WTC windows, as opposed to real people falling and jumping

And then the people who threw them out -

Uh...

 

[beachnut]

Static meaning if you want to surpass the safety factor of the building and bring it down using gravity. This is of course very inefficient way. To build up kinetic energy, you need to have less structural resistance than weight on to of that, otherwise collapse slows down, like what happened with WTC2 hitting WTC3

All you have to do is load one floor with 29,000,000 pounds, and the WTC might collapse. Means when the fire caused the WTC to collapse at the impact area, the next floor was overloaded, not only dynamically, but statically. The collapse can't slow down because of gravity. But you don't do physics, so you have no idea what is going on.

Obviously it's much less energy, work, etc, to bring down a skyscraper with some exlplosives than gravity, otherwise CD's would be done by loading stuff on top of the building.

Nope, it is exactly the same. But then you don't do physics, and you have no idea what you mean, or what you are saying.

for the core structure to disapper, it had to be blown up. It was the single most strongest part of the building. If just the floor connections would have failed, the core would be left standing and maybe tipped over.

Nope, the core was damaged by the aircraft impact. When the floors fail, the core can't stand. The core is only have the strength that holds up the WTC, the shell in the lateral support and the other half of why the WTC stands. When the shell failed, the core would collapse. The core of the WTC can't stand without the floors and shell. Next time study the subject instead of making up fantasy.

When you use explosive that releases it's energy fast, you can demolish buildings, but if you release it slow, like burning some jet fuel, you are left with just a big fireball. Key is to attach the explosive right to the part which is to be demolished, direct the all the energy towards the object(shaped charge) and release the energy very rapidly(nano technology). this is how you can do the same demolition job with much less energy.

Jet fuel had more heat energy than 260 tons of TNT. Why did you fail to tell us? The office fires that caused the collapse had the heat energy of 2,500 TONS of TNT. Slow release heat from fires, the heat equal in energy to 2,500 TONS of TNT beats the fantasy explosives. Your silent explosive fantasy.

Office fires destroys the strength of steel. Too bad 911 truth does not do science and reality.

The point was to bring down the building, and I would assume that explosives were attached to core columns and places where floors were attached to outer wall and columns. The explosive was apparently derived from this patent, where other layer is thermite and other layer protects the explosive from say fire, and also produces gas when ignited producing blast wave: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=5505799.PN.&OS=PN/5505799&RS=PN/5505799

The thermite damage to steel was found. No blast effects were found on anything on 911.

The shredding of people happened from flying concrete/steel/other stuff and/or flying molten iron droplets. There was many different kind of trauma to the people, other dissappeared in the dust, other were in big pieces. So naturally they all got hit a bit differently. The Nature of the two-layer explosive as stated in the it produces both, thermitic reaction and blast wave.

No, there is no blast wave on 911. People in the core survived. If there had been explosives their brains would be mush. But go ahead, spread lies, and disrespect those who died. It is all you can do.

As earlier stated, its easier and more energy efficient to break a building with well placed explosives, than pushing it down from above.

No explosives were used on 911. The terrorists did not bring explosives. Your fantasy is false.

BTW, so far all you offer is nonsense, no evidence. This is not evidence.

With thermite based explosives I was talking about the patented two layer explosive, with an oxide component. so it has both heat and shockwave components. Yes there was a lot of sound - just like all the eyewitnesses etc talked about, but no, there were no typical RDX sounds. Just like in this thermite demolition patent, the advantage with thermite demolition is that is produces LESS sound. Some sound, but LESS than typical RDX:
http://www.google.com/patents/US5532449

Wow, you have a patent for explosives not used on 911. What is new in your fantasy?

Where is your evidence explosives were used on 911.

The WTC collapse is did all the damage due to gravity. End of story. You have no clue how much energy it takes to destroy a body. You can't do the math, and will never present numbers to go with your fantasy.

 

[tsig]

Including to the people in the towers who survived the collapse.



It's really sad that you have to try and get debunkers to disagree with each other instead of being able to disprove them yourself.

That's not the definition of static.

Verinage is done by removing walls and letting the building's weight collapse itself. Also, "obviously"? In what sense?

Actually, the core did collapse last.

Nano technology has little to do with the speed of release.

Why am I even bothering?



AHAHAHAHAHA.

Because you totally haven't avoided a question in this very thread by pointing to a question of your own.



You can't even strawman properly.

Yes, that's almost exactly what is claimed, barring the "up and out" portion. (It was just "out".) If you have anything more than incredulity to rebut it, feel free to present it.



No one claimed it was just gravity, but the pieces of the building being thrown around in the collapse by the massive amount of energy in play. And no jumper survived any of the higher falls. About 200 people jumped to their death, and they sure didn't end up in one piece. "When they hit the pavement, their bodies were not so much broken as obliterated." If you mean Buzzelli, he wasn't a jumper. And you can't back up the 600ft comment. In fact, you never actually admitted being wrong about 1000ft.

It is amazing how just about every word you say is wrong.



And then the people who threw them out - Uh...

They're the ones who set off the CD's/truther mode off

 

[ergo]

Still waiting to hear how a steel-framed building storey with very little concrete "pulverizes" itself against the one below it, which, according to your model, must also be pulverizing, and then repeat this 80 to 90 times through successive storeys of steel-framed structure, at the rough average rate of 0.18 seconds per floor. While simultaneously rendering furnishings and human bodies into particles and fragments and spewing them laterally and upward.

If the floors didn't pancake (and bedunkers still can't seem to agree on this point, since their model needs to explain all the consequent evidence) what did they do?

I invite Major Tom to offer a pulverization model as well.

 

[LSSBB]

Still waiting to hear how a steel-framed building storey with very little concrete "pulverizes" itself against the one below it, which, according to your model, must also be pulverizing, and then repeat this 80 to 90 times through successive storeys of steel-framed structure, at the rough average rate of 0.18 seconds per floor. While simultaneously rendering furnishings and human bodies into particles and fragments and spewing them laterally and upward.

If the floors didn't pancake (and bedunkers still can't seem to agree on this point, since their model needs to explain all the consequent evidence) what did they do?

I invite Major Tom to offer a pulverization model as well.

Why do we have to explain physics and structural engineering to you? Your lack of understanding why it could happen only proves your lack of understanding. Why don't you get busy and find any evidence, any at all, that anything beyond airplane collisions and the resulting fire and damages caused the buildings to collapse?

 

[ergo]

Why do we have to explain physics and structural engineering to you?

Because using Occam's razor, reviewing the particle-ization and propulsion of what was furnishings and thousands of human bodies, along with the testimony of many who heard or saw explosions, along with the appearance of explosions destroying the building, we would have to conclude that explosions took place. Yet you claim they didn't. So you have to explain the observable that is the subject of this thread. If you don't want to, don't post in this thread.

 

[Spanx]

along with the testimony of many who heard or saw explosions, along with the appearance of explosions destroying the building, we would have to conclude that explosions took place. Yet you claim they didn't. .

Ergo, watch this and explain in your own words what you think happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJKY_-wf_HE&feature=youtube

 

[Oystein]

Man, you ARE THE SHILL!

Want to know how often I have signed the AE911Truth petition?

 

[Oystein]

Still waiting to hear how a steel-framed building storey with very little concrete "pulverizes" itself against the one below it, which, according to your model, must also be pulverizing, and then repeat this 80 to 90 times through successive storeys of steel-framed structure, at the rough average rate of 0.18 seconds per floor. While simultaneously rendering furnishings and human bodies into particles and fragments and spewing them laterally and upward.

If the floors didn't pancake (and bedunkers still can't seem to agree on this point, since their model needs to explain all the consequent evidence) what did they do?

I invite Major Tom to offer a pulverization model as well.

Put a piece of concrete on concrete. Or on massive steel.
Slam another piece of concrete hard on it. Or a piece of massive steel.
Observe.


The floors fell down from an average height of 200 meters. So to get a feel, drop a big piece of concrete (say, one tonne) onto concrete from 200 meters up.
Observe.
Now drop a big piece of concrete (say, one tonne) onto concrete from 200 meters up, but this time place your body underneath.
Observe.


The floors had, on average, about 140,000 tons of steel, concrete and stuff fall onto them, at an average speed of roughly 21.5 m/s (77 km/h, 48 mph). That's the speed attained after 2.2 seconds of free fall, from a height of 23.5 meters / 77 feet.
Now drop 140,000 tons of steel, concrete and stuff (to visualize: that might be a solid block 63x63 meters wide and about 7 meters high/thick) onto a concrete slab from a height of 23 meters.
Observe.
Do the same, but this time place your body underneath.
Observe.


Just so you get a feel for the masses, forces and energies involved



As for pancaking: Yes. Did happen in the total collapse progression phase after release. Could you show, by way of quotation, who in this sub-forum denies this?

If you want to model pancaking: Each floor took part in 109 floor-floor collisions. Each collision occurred after a vertical distance of about 3.6 meters was diminished by a fall.

So take a piece of floor slab.
Drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.

Describe what is left!

 

[thedopefishlives]

Oystein, to your point about us "denying" the pancaking theory, I imagine ergo is going to quote the line from the NIST report. Just to nip such an occurrence in the bud, NIST has already stated in the report itself that they are examining only the method of collapse initiation, not the progression. Therefore, while a "pancake theory" of collapse initiation is invalid, once things got underway, it provides a good illustrative model of what was occurring as the floors demolished each other.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

... Drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
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Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
Gather what remains and again drop it 3.6 meters onto another floor slab.
...

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[LSSBB]

Because using Occam's razor, reviewing the particle-ization and propulsion of what was furnishings and thousands of human bodies, along with the testimony of many who heard or saw explosions, along with the appearance of explosions destroying the building, we would have to conclude that explosions took place. Yet you claim they didn't. So you have to explain the observable that is the subject of this thread. If you don't want to, don't post in this thread.

No, we would not conclude explosions, that would add to the complexity. We would correctly assume two 100+ story buildings collapsed, peeling themselves like a banana (the sides of the buildings, you know). Collapsing things sound like explosions, and things like transformers and so on can explode - there was already a fire, by the way, to provide the explosive noise.

Thanks for providing a point illustrating your lack of understanding.

 

[Animal]

No, we would not conclude explosions, that would add to the complexity. We would correctly assume two 100+ story buildings collapsed, peeling themselves like a banana (the sides of the buildings, you know). Collapsing things sound like explosions, and things like transformers and so on can explode - there was already a fire, by the way, to provide the explosive noise.

Thanks for providing a point illustrating your lack of understanding.

The only way that Occam's razor leads to explosives is when you ignore 85% of the available information regarding the collapse. (seismic records, lack of wiring and denotation devices, etc etc.)