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Why didn't God just tell Smith, "Hey, you missed a bit."? Why wait years, and still be vague?

Or, "Hey! You got a lot of stuff completely wrong!"?

The fact that immensely powerful, even omnipotent beings are, time and again, limited to nothing better than the capabilities of error prone humans to deliver their immensely important messages, strikes me as curious.
 
Why pick on the LDS? Is the BOM any less believable than the bible itself? I mean talking snakes and donkeys, getting out of a boat and strolling on the waves etc.

My mentor was a police Captain named Jack Fink who was an atheist jew. Do you really believe Moses went up a mountain and stood watching while the invisible man carved the ten commandments out of the rock? He didn't believe that and neither do I.

Along comes Joseph Smith with his tale of gold books and angels and whatever and you don't believe it. Well what else is new? I think the Qu'ran is unbelievable. I think the Zend Avesta is unbelievable. If its a book about supernatural dietys in any religion I don't believe them either.

Why single out the LDS?
 
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Why pick on the LDS? Is the BOM any less believable than the bible itself? I mean talking snakes and donkeys, getting out of a boat and strolling on the waves etc.

My mentor was a police Captain named Jack Fink who was an atheist jew. Do you really believe Moses went up a mountain and stood watching while the invisible man carved the ten commandments out of the rock? He didn't believe that and neither do I.

Along comes Joseph Smith with his tale of gold books and angels and whatever and you don't believe it. Well what else is new? I think the Qu'ran is unbelievable. I think the Zend Avesta is unbelievable. If its a book about supernatural dietys in any religion I don't believe them either.

Why single out the LDS?
Thread Topic.
 
I can't find the verse right now, but in the BoM Nephi refers to those who are "past learning"; in other words, they are not--and will not be--receptive to accepting the words of Mormon prophets.

Some on this forum are "past learning" about the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean no disrespect, but it is as if their minds are hermetically sealed re. Mormonism. Consequently, this venue is not the place to win converts.
I'm open minded. You only need provide evidence. I'm a skeptic so BS isn't going to cut it.

BTW: What would it take to change YOUR mind?
 
Why pick on the LDS? Is the BOM any less believable than the bible itself? I mean talking snakes and donkeys, getting out of a boat and strolling on the waves etc.

My mentor was a police Captain named Jack Fink who was an atheist jew. Do you really believe Moses went up a mountain and stood watching while the invisible man carved the ten commandments out of the rock? He didn't believe that and neither do I.

Along comes Joseph Smith with his tale of gold books and angels and whatever and you don't believe it. Well what else is new? I think the Qu'ran is unbelievable. I think the Zend Avesta is unbelievable. If its a book about supernatural dietys in any religion I don't believe them either.

Why single out the LDS?

My reasoning is below.

Pup's highlighted part of it.
FIFY.

I was brought up as non-devout CofE, but interestingly enough, those fairy stories still feel less ridiculous to me than those of other religions, although there is no rational, non-emotional reason for me to think so compared to many other religions.

Actually, given how obviously Mormonism is modelled on Christianity, its claims are more ridiculous. Similarly for spiritualism or Jehovah's Witnesses.
The bold part shows the depth of manipulation, or whatever you want to call it, that religion can accomplish when it dominates a culture, and as I've posted elsewhere on this thread, mainstream religions in the US, at least, use it to divide and conquer.

When Protestants and to some extent nowadays Catholics dominate society as the "normal" religion(s), they can convince people that what they believe is the default, while every smaller demographic is too weird and strange.

So the atheists, for example, who ally with Protestants in thinking that Mormons are more weird, are helping support the very same culture which Protestants use as a weapon against atheists. And the same is true for every other non-mainstream segment.

The arguments are eerily similar: Mormons aren't really Christian because they've added to the Bible, so they can't be trusted. Atheists don't believe in the Bible, so they have no morals. Wiccans aren't Christian and the Bible warns us about them. Etc. etc.

Gradually, other demographics such as Catholics can get accepted by the U.S. mainstream, but only if Protestants feel that they're not a danger to Protestantism.
 
On what basis--by what stretch of strained supposition-do you assume that the flaws in the BoM indicate that God is not adequately concerned about our immortal souls? Joseph Smith was a fallible mortal man. He didn't have a staff or the equipment to do even a fraction of what you describe above. Consider, too, that computer technology wasn't even on the horizon circa 1830.

I thought that the BOM was dictated by an infallible god. Are you saying that it is Smith's work of fiction?
 
By keeping the commandments and following the counsel of the Church's living prophet.

Another well known cognitive technique to keep converts. If you want to control people you must demand obedience. The more cult like the religion the more they demand obedience. The more obedient one is to the rules the less likely a person is to question.

1 Samuel 15:22 said:
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Mathew 25:21 said:
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Oh, and remember, it's better to believe without evidence (don't question).

John 20:29 said:
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Long story short: Shut up and do as your told. Be a good little sheep.
 
I thought that the BOM was dictated by an infallible god. Are you saying that it is Smith's work of fiction?
Yes, dictated is the correct word. Joseph smith did not, by his own testimony, translate the BofM.

He put rocks into a hat and peered into the hat. There he saw the text for the BofM. That's not translating. One wonders where the mistakes of men come in?
 
Yes, dictated is the correct word. Joseph smith did not, by his own testimony, translate the BofM.

He put rocks into a hat and peered into the hat. There he saw the text for the BofM. That's not translating. One wonders where the mistakes of men come in?

Nowhere. God must have been joshing.
 
I'm curious about the golden plates. Were they literally plates, like dishes? I've read they were engraved, but if so, why not just ink them and make a few direct copies? How many of them were there? What did they weigh? Where is the hillside where they were found? What was their monetary value in Smith's day?
 
Yes, dictated is the correct word. Joseph smith did not, by his own testimony, translate the BofM.

He put rocks into a hat and peered into the hat. There he saw the text for the BofM. That's not translating. One wonders where the mistakes of men come in?

Not only that, but he saw one line of text at a time, which he would call out to his scribes. The scribe would write it down, read it back, and only after it was correct, would that line disappear from JS's view, and a new one added. Clearly this "translation" was a direction from god. Given that, why is there anything wrong with it? If it was at the hand of a perfect god, the resulting text should be perfect as well.
 
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I'm curious about the golden plates. Were they literally plates, like dishes? I've read they were engraved, but if so, why not just ink them and make a few direct copies? How many of them were there? What did they weigh? Where is the hillside where they were found? What was their monetary value in Smith's day?
The artistic depictions of smith with the plates is that they were rectangular. Yes, engraved. The Hillside is the Hill Cumorah in New York. As for value, I can imagine a tidy sum. Why he didn't ink them? Good question. He copied some of the characters onto paper known as the Anthon Transcript and apparently it still exists.
 
I'm curious about the golden plates. Were they literally plates, like dishes? I've read they were engraved, but if so, why not just ink them and make a few direct copies? How many of them were there? What did they weigh? Where is the hillside where they were found? What was their monetary value in Smith's day?

Here's a depiction of the plates as Moroni was burying them. The whole set of pictures are worth looking through, since they're the illustrations included in the BoM, at least when I was growing up. Not sure if they still use those today.

http://www.lds.org/media-library/im...ng&start=11&end=20#moroni-buries-plates-39672
 
I'm curious about the golden plates. Were they literally plates, like dishes? I've read they were engraved, but if so, why not just ink them and make a few direct copies? How many of them were there? What did they weigh? Where is the hillside where they were found? What was their monetary value in Smith's day?

This may come as a shock, but there weren't any plates. Smith made it all up.
 
Not only that, but he saw one line of text at a time, which he would call out to his scribes. The scribe would write it down, read it back, and only after it was correct, would that line disappear from JS's view, and a new one added. Clearly this "translation" was a direct from god. Given that, why is there anything wrong with it? If it was at the hand of a perfect god, the resulting text should be perfect as well.
Yes, it's shouldn't say "horse" when it meant "deer". Yes, "deer".

Somebody please to explain how that happened?

Smith: Deer
Harris: Horse?
Smith: That's right, deer.
Harris: Horse it is then.
 
This may come as a shock, but there weren't any plates. Smith made it all up.

That's what I believe, too. But...I'm gonna start over, and proceed with a reasonable doubt.

So let's start with the golden plates. As I understand it, an angel named Moroni told JS where the plates were to be found.

JS always listened to his dreams; even when they involved pink elephants and angels. He jumped right into his wagon at the first crack of dawn and drove to Hill Cumorah in New York.

That leaves a lot of problems. As the daughter of an amateur treasure hunter, I know just how many problems. Even with exact GPS coordinates, it can be hard to locate an item. JS didn't have a metal detector, didn't have GPS, didn't have anything except a dream to work with. I don't know about you; but if I don't write my dreams down right away, I've forgotten them by lunchtime. So I'm assuming JS did, at least, write down what he remembered. Whatever...he got there, and he found the plates.

According to the illustration Empress posted, they would weigh hundreds of pounds. So he would have needed help carrying them. Who helped JS bring them out of the hills? Did they steal any of them? Did he count them? Did he measure them?
 
According to the illustration Empress posted, they would weigh hundreds of pounds.
Agreed, and I know you are not arguing that it was impossible. But just to be clear, hunters routinely killed and transported large game from those same woods.
 
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