LDS

[RandFan]

It is not necessary for us to live a long life. Those who do not, are blessed in that their trial is short...

I can't even being to understand why you'd think any life cut tragically short is a blessing because "well they won't screw up later".

• Adam Lanza blessed 20 Children (Newtown Massacre).
• Susan Smith blessed her children by drowning them in a lake.
• Andrea Yates blessed her children by drowning them in a tub.

 

[TheRedWorm]

Why? god created them that way, right? Wouldn't your dear and fluffy lord love his/her/its children exactly as he/she/it created them?

Jane? You brought up our breed of great ape are your god's children, so can you answer this?

 

[RandFan]

God has a thing for killing children.

Ummm, wow. Death is a blessing?

Isn't god a really nice guy? He's no different than any other mass murder except that he has killed a lot more.

• Noah's Flood.
• First born of Egypt.
• Amalekite children.
• Moabite children.
• David's child with Bathsheba.

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones...

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I am perfectly aware of LDS Doctrines, all of which I fully support... whilst certainly I do not agree with the opinions of ex LDS and non believers. That you prefer to accept their interpretations and answers rather than mine does not mean that i have not given the official and correct answer... whether you and others have understood it or not.

For instance, how many times do I have to post that our Spiritual bodies are either male or female, there is no negotiation nor choice in the matter, but still you incorrectly state there is "no official stance".

See, here's the thing: Those people present actual evidence. They point out things like the fact that the hypocephali that Joseph Smith claimed to translate the Book of Abraham from actually don't say anything even remotely like what Smith "translated" from them. They point out that there is actually zero evidence that any Native American populations are descendants of a lost tribe of Israel, and that genetic evidence actually contradicts this claim.

All you offer are assertions such as that our "spiritual bodies" are either male or female.

 

[Janadele]

Bruto:

Of course God knows the gender. But He does not usually interfere in our mortal trial.

Mankind has through past choices brought upon the world the consequences which future generations inherit.

The person will be judged according to the circumstances of their trial.

This answer has been repeated, and repeated and repeated.

 

[RandFan]

But He does not usually interfere in our mortal trial.

Not usually but he does like to interfere when he kills children and interferes with their mortal trial. (see post #490).

He has no problem letting mass murderers like Adam Lanza and other mass murderers interfere with other people's mortal trial.

 

[Blue Mountain]

One aphorism is just as good as another.

The Lord has but one Prophet who speaks for Him to the world, even though the twelve followers and two counselors of Ka Apaz are also Prophets, Seers and Revelators it is only Maria Liwayway Alvaran through whom the Lord speaks and who is referred to as the Prophet.

Lucifer deceives many by using his powers for good as well as evil, and seeks to confuse and imitate so that many are therefore not able to recognise the true Prophet of God from the deceivers.
​

Why is your statement more true than the one I just posted?

The Lord has but one Prophet who speaks for Him to the world, even though the twelve apostles and two counselors of the LDS Church are also Prophets, Seers and Revelators it is only the President of the LDS Church through whom the Lord speaks and who is referred to as the Prophet.

Lucifer deceives many by using his powers for good as well as evil, and seeks to confuse and imitate so that many are therefore not able to recognise the true Prophet of God from the deceivers.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Bruto:

Of course God knows the gender. But He does not usually interfere in our mortal trial. Mankind has through past choices brought upon the world the consequences which future generations inherit.

The person will be judged according to the circumstances of their trial.

This answer has been repeated, and repeated and repeated.

So why not make the person the gender that their supposed to be rather then messing around and confusing them (Transgenders)?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Slowvehicle, It is a trial they have to deal with, whether the cause is chemicals in our environment, pesticides, medications, artificial additives or whatever... as with all our individual trials, we will be judged of how we deal with them.

What about all those who came before artificial chemicals?

 

[Janadele]

The President of the Church, not any one Apostle, determines official LDS theology. Newly formed official LDS doctrine is put forth by the President of the Church in an official statement countersigned either by his counselors or all members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, or both. No one man posits new doctrine alone.

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church.

With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the Prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture
( the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith.

Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.

Because different times present different challenges, modern-day prophets receive revelation relevant to the circumstances of their day. This follows the biblical pattern (Amos 3:7), in which God communicated messages and warnings to His people through Prophets in order to secure their well-being. Based on the Scriptures, Joseph Smith declared: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/ldsnew...ormon-doctrine

 

[Hokulele]

The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.

"Pay no attention to the errors, those really aren't important. Because they aren't important, we don't have to acknowledge them as errors."

Lovely.

 

[RandFan]

The President of the Church, not any one Apostle, determines official LDS theology. Newly formed official LDS doctrine is put forth by the President of the Church in an official statement countersigned either by his counselors or all members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, or both. No one man posits new doctrine alone.

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church.

Ahem...

"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p.95).

Please see: Mormon objections to deriving LDS doctrine from sources other than the 'Standard Works'

 

[jsfisher]

The President of the Church...

All very interesting, I am sure, but you seem to be side-stepping the questions you have left unanswered.

 

[RandFan]

"Pay no attention to the errors, those really aren't important. Because they aren't important, we don't have to acknowledge them as errors."

Lovely.

Self serving is more like it.

Why would god not tell Brigham Young that he was a racist misogynist? Why would god not tell Brigham Young that in the future the Church would disavow his claims?

• Adam God.
• Blood doctrine.

 

[Janadele]

Shame on you Rand, you know better than this.

Everyone who ever lived on this earth will be judged according to the circumstances of their life, their choices, actions and their pre mortal existence.

If free agency is taken away, then mortality is no longer a trial on which judgement can be made.

Not usually but he does like to interfere when he kills children and interferes with their mortal trial. (see post #490).

He has no problem letting mass murderers like Adam Lanza and other mass murderers interfere with other people's mortal trial.

 

[Shalamar]

Shame on you Rand, you know better than this.

Everyone who ever lived on this earth will be judged according to the circumstances of their life, their choices, actions and their pre mortal existence.

If free agency is taken away, then mortality is no longer a trial on which judgement can be made.

I have to ask, and the answer will be very telling:

According to what you believe, what will be awaiting a man in the afterlife no is just, and good. One who does good deals, gives selflessly of himself, loves his fellow man and family, but yet rejects any religion, and claims in the non existence of god or any other supernatural being? What will happen to such a person when they die?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Below are two images.

One represents the universe as it was known to those who created gods like YHWH. It is a concept in which we can easily imagine the boundaries of the universe ringing with the mighty footsteps of the great gods, who concern themselves with the behavior of the men and women who grovel at their feet, judging them and holding them accountable to their divine standards of morality.

The other image is called the Bolshoi Simulation, and it represents a slice of the observable universe as we know it today. The bright specks that you see aren't stars. They aren't even galaxies. They are gigantic clusters of galaxies. In this universe, gods who are claimed to concern themselves with what people eat, who they have sex with, or whether or not they prostrate themselves and assure the mighty gods of just how powerful and glorious they are, are revealed for the anthropomorphic conceits that they really are. In this universe, even the gods of men are lost in the unimaginable vastness, becoming every bit as insignificant on the grand scale as we, their creators.

 

[Janadele]

They will pass on to a place much better than here.
Be taught by the Missionaries and again have the chance to accept or reject.
If they accept, Temple ordinances will be done for them on earth by proxy.
They will have the opportunity to progress, but it will be more difficult to do so then, than to do so now while in mortality.

I have to ask, and the answer will be very telling:

According to what you believe, what will be awaiting a man in the afterlife no is just, and good. One who does good deals, gives selflessly of himself, loves his fellow man and family, but yet rejects any religion, and claims in the non existence of god or any other supernatural being? What will happen to such a person when they die?

 

[bruto]

Bruto:

Of course God knows the gender. But He does not usually interfere in our mortal trial.

Mankind has through past choices brought upon the world the consequences which future generations inherit.

The person will be judged according to the circumstances of their trial.

This answer has been repeated, and repeated and repeated.

So were you in error when you said the gender of a hermaphrodite would not be known in death? Is it or isn't it? This post does not seem to agree with #452, where you reiterate the assertion that sometimes the gender of a spirit is "not known." even after death. Now that clearly has nothing to do with whether God interferes in our mortal trials, but something is either known or not by whoever is in charge of knowing.

While we're at it, I notice in the question of child mortality another disturbing issue, not at all exclusive to Mormons. It is, so you say, unnecessary to live a long life, and children stricken down are well treated in the after life. Fine, but how, then, does one reconcile prayer for the deliverance of children? Most religions think it's a pretty good idea to pray for one's children not to die, and to be thankful if they don't. But if they're better off dead, then clearly praying for them not to die is selfish on the part of those praying. What must we conclude if we pray and they are delivered? If everything God does is according to an unknowable plan that may or may not accord with what we pray for, then is petitionary prayer a mistake or a sin?

I don't mean to sound flippant about this common complaint of the non-religious. I went through a period when younger of really trying to be religious and trying to figure this stuff out, and assuming that some Christians older and wiser than myself must be right. But the issue of prayer and the double standard by which all results are always right no matter how contradictory remained insurmountable. I have yet to see any religion in which prayer is practiced that does not answer the issue with double talk.

 

[Yorkie]

Because different times present different challenges, modern-day prophets receive revelation relevant to the circumstances of their day. This follows the biblical pattern (Amos 3:7), in which God communicated messages and warnings to His people through Prophets in order to secure their well-being. Based on the Scriptures, Joseph Smith declared: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/ldsnew...ormon-doctrine

Joseph Smith – a very questionable individual to start quoting and to have as a founder. I’m unable to post links at the moment but a Google search is certainly an eye opener on this guy.

I’ve also seen that the Mormon church collects somewhere in the region of $4.5 billion a year from its members and another $4 billion from various business. I cannot verify those figures but it seems to me that an organisation with anywhere near this kind of cash flow and the principles attributed to Jesus Christ cannot sit well together. Throwing the money lenders out of the temple springs to mind.

How do you reconcile the two Janadele?