LDS

[Joey McGee]

continued from women wearing parts to church thread

Joey... Joseph was none of those things. False accusations from the followers of Lucifer mean nothing.

He was only one of those things. Someone who was convicted of taking money from a farmer for the service of "glass looking", which is faking you have powers to find buried treasure. He was convicted of this. The documentation proves it. You can either use the technique your cult taught you, believe any criticism or questioning is from the devil, or you can do your own research and see for yourself that there are documents that prove that this happened. And decide which is more likely to be true.

Many cult members are taught that when someone causes them to question their belief, this is the devil working. What a perfect way to keep someone under cult mind control.

Glad to have you in the forum. Have you ever hung around and debated with these people?

 

[cwalner]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also known as LDS /Mormon, is a Christian denomination, but is neither Protestant nor Catholic...

I disagree. I think that Mormonism (LDS and other churches descended from Smith's teachings) are divergent enough to be classified as their own religion.

The fact that Mormonism still follows the Old and New Testaments is insufficient in my opinion to classify it as Christian. Christians still follow the Old Testament, but nobody considers Christians a Jewish sect. What distinguishes Christians from Jews is additional scripture and a new prophet. What distinguishes Mormons from Christians is additional scripture and a new prophet.

Mormons are no more Christian than Christians are Jews.

 

[RandFan]

I disagree. I think that Mormonism (LDS and other churches descended from Smith's teachings) are divergent enough to be classified as their own religion.

The fact that Mormonism still follows the Old and New Testaments is insufficient in my opinion to classify it as Christian. Christians still follow the Old Testament, but nobody considers Christians a Jewish sect. What distinguishes Christians from Jews is additional scripture and a new prophet. What distinguishes Mormons from Christians is additional scripture and a new prophet.

Mormons are no more Christian than Christians are Jews.

I disagree. Anyone who follows the teaching of Christ, IMO, are free to all themselves Christian. We've debated this many times. I find it a bit of a no true Scotsman to accuse Mormons of not being Christians.

We can disagree though.

 

[cwalner]

I disagree. Anyone who follows the teaching of Christ, IMO, are free to all themselves Christian. We've debated this many times. I find it a bit of a no true Scotsman to accuse Mormons of not being Christians.

We can disagree though.

By that same logic, we can say that anybody who worships Yahweh (regardless if they call him Jahovah or Allah) would be a Jew.

Also, my claim that Mormons are not Christians is not an accusation. That implies that I think the label of Christian has some positive connotation. I do not.

I see Mormonism as a child of Christianity in the same way that Christianity is a child of Judaism. We have a clear relationship where one religion developed from the traditions of the other, but with the addition of new scriptures and new prophets, have diverged enough to be considered their own separate religion, rather than just a sect of the original one.

 

[Janadele]

As we progress in our understanding more enlightenment is given. That does not mean eternal principles change. We will always be the same gender, which will always be the gender of our Spirit and our Intelligence also. These eternal truths do not change.

What an odd response, from a member of a church which believes that God can give ongoing revelations, so nothing must be eternal.

Because homosexual activity is against Eternal Law and the reasons for our mortal existence.

 

[dafydd]

As we progress in our understanding more enlightenment is given. That does not mean eternal principles change. We will always be the same gender, which will always be the gender of our Spirit and our Intelligence also. These eternal truths do not change.

As we progress in our understanding gods are driven into a smaller and smaller corner. Our understanding tells us that all gods are inventions of mankind. Do you believe that the Hindu gods exist, or are they inventions? We only live once, so we are only one gender once. Please provide proof of this spirit.

 

[Janadele]

Thank you Joey ... and no, I have not.

... Glad to have you in the forum. Have you ever hung around and debated with ...

 

[tsig]

Plus those websites are limited in their ability to address issues. It's obvious that apologetics for something like hermaphroditism just leads to more and more unanswerable questions.

I was told over and over to put my doubts on a shelf and trust in god. Why did god give me a brain if he wanted me to be a brain dead sheep?

God has nothing to do with brains.

 

[ShadowSot]

Especially as the Church has changed their minds on both dark skinned peoples and taken the first steps on changing their minds on homosexuals.

 

[dafydd]

God has nothing to do with brains.

Perhaps, but an imaginary creature can only exist in human brains.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

I....I don't know how to take that. That's just....wow. Can you elaborate? Can a member of the LDS here elaborate? Please? I'm very curious about this. I blame it on the fact that my wife is attempting to get me drunk.

The source apparently is now m.i.a

I'll continue searching.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

http://www.lds.org/topics/profanity?lang=eng

Apparently I can combat my spirit with colorful language, I may have already killed it, I did just recently watch a George Carlin special.

 

[Janadele]

The proof is within you.

Intelligence, or the light of truth was not created nor made. The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.
One who organizes materials in a completely new way, by organizing the existing matter available, is a creator.

The creation was twofold—first spiritual, secondly temporal.

The glory of God is intelligence. We were all at different stages of progression in our pre mortal existence, and of graded intelligences. The veil which cloaks our rememberances allows recognition of the truths we knew and also understanding of Eternal Laws... if we will listen.

... Please provide proof of this spirit.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses?lang=eng

 

[Dinwar]

By that same logic, we can say that anybody who worships Yahweh (regardless if they call him Jahovah or Allah) would be a Jew.

Welcome to the wonderful world of taxonomy.

As we progress in our understanding more enlightenment is given.

Put yourself in the place of a nonbeliever. What proof do we have that you have ANY understanding? You obviously don't understand it well enough to explain it--your continued failure to do so is proof of that.

Because homosexual activity is against Eternal Law and the reasons for our mortal existence.

It's wrong because it's wrong. That's not an explanation. WHAT Eternal Law? Why should we follow it? What proof is there?

 

[ShadowSot]

he proof is within you.

Intelligence, or the light of truth was not created nor made. The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.
One who organizes materials in a completely new way, by organizing the existing matter available, is a creator.

The door is a jar.
Have an ice cream koan.

 

[bruto]

Entirely non religious post here, but Janadele, I live in Benson, Vermont. As you may know, the Mormons came from Vermont, and in Benson it turns out is a building that was briefly one of the very first Mormon churches before the pilgrimage west. There's a book by Erik Barnouw (I think that's the spelling) called House With a Past, relating his experience after buying a little stone house on Temple Road, and his research into the early history of the Mormons, among others. I don't know how difficult it might be to find a copy, but if you're in Mormon country it might be easier. It's pretty interesting. It seems our sleepy little area was once a hotbed of religious fervor and dissension, the jumping off place for "the burned-over district" not just for Mormons but all sorts of religious nonconformists. I think the Mormons began in Northern Vermont, and so did the Oneida Perfectionists. Practically a stone's throw from where the Benson Mormons headed west across the ice of Lake Champlain is the William Miller Chapel, where the Seventh-Day Adventists came into being.

So, not so important, but I thought you'd find it amusing how the twists and turns of history connect the most diverse places.

 

[RandFan]

The proof is within you.

Intelligence, or the light of truth was not created nor made. The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.
One who organizes materials in a completely new way, by organizing the existing matter available, is a creator.

The creation was twofold—first spiritual, secondly temporal.

The glory of God is intelligence. We were all at different stages of progression in our pre mortal existence, and of graded intelligences. The veil which cloaks our rememberances allows recognition of the truths we knew and also understanding of Eternal Laws... if we will listen.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses?lang=eng

Rhetoric. Not at all compelling.

 

[Joey McGee]

The proof is within you.

Religion is just cancer of the mind. It attacks the very notion of a request for evidence, it's seen as an attack. The problem with "it is within you" is that we are just brains with the capacity to imagine and believe our own imaginings are for real. Thus begins the neverending metastasizing of the mind where evidence is rejected for imaginings and imaginings are presented as evidence. This is how cults operate. And clearly, there is no immediate cure, only treatment, which is very difficult, painful and usually requires a willing patient.

 

[ArchieGoodwin]

Understood. Ask away and I'll respond as best I can. I graduated seminary (the Mormon version) and I have spent a lifetime studying Mormonism.

Ok (and sorry for the delay, family had to come before posting):

The most interesting thing in "Under The Banner Of Heaven" to me was not the tragic use/misuse of faith. It was the description of how they used the government aid programs like the proverbial "welfare queens." Blowing up the system from within or something like that. Far right-wingers who were nevertheless using welfare, food stamps, SS, etc. for all it was worth and then some.

Is that description true, not true, or dismissed as being a small contrarian sect of a much larger faith?

 

[Nay_Sayer]

The proof is within you.

Intelligence, or the light of truth was not created nor made. The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.One who organizes materials in a completely new way, by organizing the existing matter available, is a creator.

The creation was twofold—first spiritual, secondly temporal.

The glory of God is intelligence. We were all at different stages of progression in our pre mortal existence, and of graded intelligences. The veil which cloaks our rememberances allows recognition of the truths we knew and also understanding of Eternal Laws... if we will listen.


https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses?lang=eng

Two things:

1:nothing is eternal, everything has a finite life span, even the universe.

2: Does that mean god doesn't exist since he'd'she'd/horse'd have to have a beginning?