Post-revolution polls in Egypt

WildCat said:
No way should a Constitution be ratified with a simple majority vote, and Egypt is showing why.
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You say that but its what the UK has been doing for the last few centuries (prior to that we did it via civil wars) and so far it hasn't ended too badly.

A version of it has also worked well enough for the swiss (other than the odd Minaret ban and ended up with a constitution that could stop bullets).

Look the practical issue in egypt is that they need a functioning system of government sooner rather than later and the courts are full of Mubarak supporters who aren't prepared to let things drift along while something that can get a more significant level of popular support is sorted out. Notice how often they have tried to dissolve parliament for example.
 
geni said:
Look the practical issue in egypt is that they need a functioning system of government sooner rather than later and the courts are full of Mubarak supporters who aren't prepared to let things drift along while something that can get a more significant level of popular support is sorted out. Notice how often they have tried to dissolve parliament for example.
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And that is the exact same argument that Morsi and his supporters are making when they urge the rapid ratification of this salafist/Islamist constitution.
 
ANTPogo said:
And that is the exact same argument that Morsi and his supporters are making when they urge the rapid ratification of this salafist/Islamist constitution.
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Just read some interviews with MB members in the paper.

They feel they've compromised A LOT.
They have even -in their view- made a very watered-down version of the all-out Sharia law they wanted. And the did it for the stability of the country.

From their point of view this probably a huge compromise.

And I suspect most Egyptians rather agree with it, as many feel that Islam = good.
 
Eddie Dane said:
Just read some interviews with MB members in the paper.

They feel they've compromised A LOT.
They have even -in their view- made a very watered-down version of the all-out Sharia law they wanted. And the did it for the stability of the country.

From their point of view this probably a huge compromise.

And I suspect most Egyptians rather agree with it, as many feel that Islam = good.
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And when it all goes bad as it always does they'll blame the other guys for believing in the wrong sect of Islam, or the Jews or the Christians. It never occurs to these dimwits that heavily mixing religion and state guarantees your country will become or remain a backwards [feces]hole with poverty and despair and violence.
 
ANTPogo said:
And that is the exact same argument that Morsi and his supporters are making when they urge the rapid ratification of this salafist/Islamist constitution.
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That doesn't mean it isn't true though.
 
WildCat said:
And when it all goes bad as it always does they'll blame the other guys for believing in the wrong sect of Islam, or the Jews or the Christians. It never occurs to these dimwits that heavily mixing religion and state guarantees your country will become or remain a backwards [feces]hole with poverty and despair and violence.
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Oh I don't know. Religon drove spain to the position of being one of the most powerful countries on earth with the first great european empire. Admitedly south american gold then trashed their economy but that was a seperate problem.
 
geni said:
That doesn't mean it isn't true though.
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Doesn't mean it's true, either. The Brotherhood is inherently untrustworthy, and I have no doubt in my mind that they don't care one bit about instability and insecurity in Egypt, except as a means to ensure their particular Islamist-flavored political control of the country.

Morsi and his party, in fact, had done almost nothing to ensure stability and security since he won the election - and not just for the sake of tourists and foreign businesses, either. The streets weren't even made safe, forcing local communities and citizens' organizations to take up ad-hoc patrols against things like sexual assaults against women. Even worse, there's evidence that the increased crimes, especially the increased sexual crimes, are being done by Brotherhood and Brotherhood-linked forces. The only thing that Morsi has done in the name of "stability" and "security" was his recent dictatorial power grab, which was so transparently a dictatorial power grab that Egyptians rose up en masse to demand he back down.

So, while Egypt certainly needs a solid constitutional foundation on while to build a stable and secure state, I'm extremely doubtful that ramrodding a salafist/Islamist constitution through a rush vote is going to bring that about, and completely cynical about the motives for Morsi and his allies in claiming that it will in fact do so.
 
Maybe it is a tactical withdrawal, but seeing Morsi step back a bit from his bid to absolutism looks like good news.

The ball is still in play ...
 
Egypt will have as much stability as the West is willing to pay for.
 
Didn't see this coming.

CAIRO (AP) — Egypt's chief prosecutor ordered an investigation on Thursday into allegations that opposition leaders committed treason by inciting supporters to overthrow Islamist President Mohammed Morsi.
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Things seem to be progressing predictably.
 
Hopefully, those convicted can avoid being subjected to the traditional post-execution motorcycle treatment.
 
Things aren't getting any better for either Egypt or Morsi.

On Friday, the second anniversary of the Tahrir Square uprisings, tens of thousands of anti-Morsi protesters took to the streets (the article says there were 500,000 protesters total, in 12 of Egypt's 27 provinces). Seven people were killed in Suez and Ismailiya, and there were almost 500 injuries. The Brotherhood stayed off the streets.

Today, Morsi declared a state of emergency in Port Said, Suez, and Ismailiya for 30 days and imposed a curfew. He also invited the opposition leaders to meet with him to help "resolve the crisis". At least one has basically told him to go screw himself, and said that any meeting must also include a discussion of fixes to the rammed-through constitution. That article also notes how, at a funeral in Cairo for two police officers killed during the Port Said protests, the other police officers shouted at and basically drove off the Interior Minister (who is ostensibly in charge of the police).
 
Better cut the troglodyte some more checks and give him more tanks and planes.
 
This has video of the protests and clashes.

It also says (if you scroll down to the bottom) that protesters are breaking, en masse, the 9 PM curfews in Port Said and Suez, and the military is apparently doing nothing in response.
 
ANTPogo said:
This has video of the protests and clashes.

It also says (if you scroll down to the bottom) that protesters are breaking, en masse, the 9 PM curfews in Port Said and Suez, and the military is apparently doing nothing in response.
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God, sound liked St Petersburg (the one in Russia) during the Feburary 1917 revolution, where the troops to refused to fire on the revolutionaries in the streets. If The Egyptian Government has lost the rank and file military, it is over,baby.
 
dudalb said:
God, sound liked St Petersburg (the one in Russia) during the Feburary 1917 revolution, where the troops to refused to fire on the revolutionaries in the streets. If The Egyptian Government has lost the rank and file military, it is over,baby.
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This blog has pictures and video of the curfew-breaking in the three cities under a state of emergency.

Not only were there chanting protesters, there was also a wedding, a guy who resembled Morsi taking photos with the crowd, and even impromptu soccer matches...with members of the army!!
 
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