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School shooting: but don't mention guns!

MikeG said:
And that is the point, of course. A minor sacrifice by a tiny minority for the greater good of society. The gun owners didn't squeal much because they knew they were on the wrong side of history.

Mike
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A large portion of Americans seem to view the people who died yesterday as a sacrifice by a tiny minority for the greater good of society.
 
Interestingly, the "Anders Breivik" thread took 6 months to reach 32 pages,
yet let it happen in the US, and it's 22 pages in less than 24 hours--and I lose track of how many Europeans who made the point anders was a lone nut are asserting that the US incident was a "gun culture" problem (and who tend to be apologists for Muslim bombers...
 
Bikewer said:
It's my impression that the medical establishment would be more than a little upset by the prospect of turning their patients in to a "federal registry" of the mentally ill.
I'm inclined to think that the ACLU would be more than interested in the sure-to-follow legislation.
As most know, only the tiniest percentage of the mentally ill are even potentially violent.

Now, individuals who have been assigned to a "mental health court" will in fact have a permanent record of this; but often such people are placed in this situation not for violence but for mundane situations like trespassing, public disturbances, or substance abuse.
Likely they should not possess weapons... But in many cases that's more than a bit of a stretch.
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Anyone who has been prescribed any sort of mind-altering drugs, particularly those whose manufactures warn may potentially cause suicidal thoughts, should not be permitted to possess weapons. The very fact that the drug was prescribed is an indication that the person's mind is abnormal. This really seems like nothing but common sense to me.
 
shuttlt said:
I don't see a lone militia managing to aquire enough larger armaments for it to matter. Is this really how tyrants fall? Surely an externally supported rebelion, or the tyrant losing the support of the army is how these things go down
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External support usually requires showing a little internal grit. Unless you're dealing with a coup, so does garnering the support of the tyrant's army..

shuttlt said:
If you ask me, the only scenario where private gun ownership would actually matter for freedom etc... is some kind of post apololyptic fall of western civilization scenario in the manner of Mad Max . Short of that, I really don't see it.
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If we descend to Mad Max levels, I'll be taking early retirement.

It does seem unlikely that accountants and line managers will take up arms against a tyrant, but only because the prospect of a tyrant seems so unlikely. Still, that is the reason for the 2nd amendment, and I don't see that right being repealed any time soon either.
 
With the facts as they are being reported at the moment...

Right now, I am blaming the mother. She obviously has missed the warning signs that her son was becoming a danger to both himself and others. Also, she dismally failed in her responsibility as a gun owner in that she did not secure her weapons properly so that her mental son didn't have access to them.

Granted, she didn't pull the trigger. But this doesn't happen if she took the proper precautions.
 
sgtbaker said:
We have patient's rights, privacy laws. I am upset by what happened and want a solution that can prevent something like this from ever happening again, as much as the next person. Let's not start lining up to sacrifice our rights, just yet.
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Which "rights"?

There are a number of non-doctors who are by law privy to your medical information. Pharmacists, accountants, billing departments, insurance companies, arbiters who decide disabled status. If you have AIDS, you are required to disclose it to people you intend to have sex with.

Weapons background database keepers can just be one more such person allowed access to that specific data (regarding a psychotic or behavioral disorder or prescription of psychoactive drugs). I don't see how this is "sacrificing our rights".
 
Sabretooth said:
With the facts as they are being reported at the moment...

Right now, I am blaming the mother. She obviously has missed the warning signs that her son was becoming a danger to both himself and others. Also, she dismally failed in her responsibility as a gun owner in that she did not secure her weapons properly so that her mental son didn't have access to them.

Granted, she didn't pull the trigger. But this doesn't happen if she took the proper precautions.
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:jaw-dropp
 
rwguinn said:
Interestingly, the "Anders Breivik" thread took 6 months to reach 32 pages,
yet let it happen in the US, and it's 22 pages in less than 24 hours--and I lose track of how many Europeans who made the point anders was a lone nut are asserting that the US incident was a "gun culture" problem (and who tend to be apologists for Muslim bombers...
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And many more are not apologists for muslim bombers. (Not that that has any bearing on this discussion)

This is more a US website than a European one. Europeans who post here are likely to be interested in the US, the converse is not necessarily the case.

I believe many Europeans (and indeed American and Australian posters -yes I am thinking of Lionking in particular) have pointed out that it is also a gun control issue as well as gun culture.

In much of the rest of the world, the lone nuts find it harder to get hold of such effective weapons, meaning that any mass killings require more planning, and probably can't be acts of impulse.


There is also significant difference in the rate of killings, especially mass killings between the US and Europe. Breivik was an isolated case, these killings are part of a pattern.
 
Colonel McInsane stood at attention in front of his legions of six followers. They were trained. They were loyal. They were just six people strong. But they were ready damnit.

"Men I have worked out our tactical deployment to oppose the tyranny of a government that continues try and take our guns. If only they listened to the NRA which just wanted to stop illegal gun use while eliminating all gun laws so there actually would be no such thing as illegal gun use."

He eyed the men while drawing a breath. So frightening all six of them were to his mind. After all six was more than five!

"So here is what we are going to do. Nelson and Bob will take up position on the south road where they will be vaporized by HEAT rounds from an M1A2 Abrams battle tank. Peter and Tim will be up on Buckhorn Ridge where they will get ripped to pieces by an AH64 Apache attack helicopter's chain gun. Max and Maxwell will both be the tactical reserve and stay here with me until this house is turned into a smoking crater by a GPS guided smartbomb. Any questions?" He was damned proud of his plan.

A hand shot up from Max....or was it Maxwell?

"Yes Max.....er person."

"Can I please join Nelson and Bob so I can fruitlessly bounce AR15 rounds off the tank's armor before it vaporizes us?"

"It's in The Constitution son."
 
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rwguinn said:
Interestingly, the "Anders Breivik" thread took 6 months to reach 32 pages,
yet let it happen in the US, and it's 22 pages in less than 24 hours--and I lose track of how many Europeans who made the point anders was a lone nut are asserting that the US incident was a "gun culture" problem (and who tend to be apologists for Muslim bombers...
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Anders was a lone nut, and we do have a gun culture.

**** Muslim bombers, though.
 
Checkmite said:
Which "rights"?

There are a number of non-doctors who are by law privy to your medical information. Pharmacists, accountants, billing departments, insurance companies, arbiters who decide disabled status. If you have AIDS, you are required to disclose it to people you intend to have sex with.

Weapons background database keepers can just be one more such person allowed access to that specific data (regarding a psychotic or behavioral disorder or prescription of psychoactive drugs). I don't see how this is "sacrificing our rights".
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As I said about a million pages ago, I have a diagnosed mental illness, and I have been prescribed psychoactive drugs, although not for several years. Continuing to dismiss such acts as just something that people with mental illnesses do not only further stigmatizes such people, but it ensures that a lot of people will fail to report their own symptoms, hindering their chances of treatment.
 
Travis said:
Colonel McInsane stood at attention in front of his legions of six followers. They were trained. They were loyal. They were just six people strong. But they were ready damnit.

"Men I have worked out our tactical deployment to oppose the tyranny of a government that continues try and take our guns. If only they listened to the NRA which just wanted to stop illegal gun use while eliminating all gun laws so there actually would be no such thing as illegal gun use."

He eyed the men while drawing a breath. So frightening all six of them were to his mind.

"So here is what we are going to do. Nelson and Bob will take up position on the south road where they will be vaporized by HEAT rounds from an M1A2 Abrams battle tank. Peter and Tim will be up on Buckhorn Ridge where they will get ripped to pieces by an AH64 Apache attack helicopters chain gun. Max and Maxwell will both be the tactical reserve and stay here with me until this house is turned into a smoking crater by GPS guided smartbomb.

Any questions?" He was damned proud of his plan.

A hand shot up from Max....or was it Maxwell?

"Yes Max.....er person."

"Can I please join Nelson and Bob so I can fruitlessly bounce AR15 rounds off the tank's armor before it vaporizes us?"

"It's in The Constitution son."
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Hey, who will be waiting to be killed by the hellfire missiles fired from a drone?
 
Polaris said:
A bazooka isn't a firearm.

The line is different in America. That's how we chose to draw it. With the proper licensing you can own pretty much whatever you want as long as it's a firearm. We don't want to move the line.
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Actually in the USA a bazooka is a firearm classified as a destructive device requiring a license or payment of the $200 tax to possess. As far as I know there are very few in civilian hands.

Ranb
 
Profanz said:
But when someone orders three guns like the ones this murderer did it needs to raise a red flag. But he was able to do it because of the NRA.
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Complete BS, the NRA doesn't pass law in this country, Congress does.

Ranb
 
Rat said:
As I said about a million pages ago, I have a diagnosed mental illness, and I have been prescribed psychoactive drugs, although not for several years. Continuing to dismiss such acts as just something that people with mental illnesses do not only further stigmatizes such people, but it ensures that a lot of people will fail to report their own symptoms, hindering their chances of treatment.
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It doesn't have to be a public list; as I described above. For instance, the gun dealer will never know whether the application was rejected for a felony conviction or a mental health issue; he will only know it was rejected.
 
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