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John Edward - psychic or what?

Robin Stettnisch said:
WOW! So, actually reading the Bible cover to cover...THAT...is what turned some of you Christians into atheists??
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I don't know if it's applicable to anybody that posts on this board, but it's one of the leading causes of Christians becoming atheists. For one take on it, I thoroughly recommend the funny and touching true monologue "Letting Go Of God" by Julia Sweeney. You can find the whole thing on YouTube. It's the story of how she went from wanting to be a nun when she was a child into being a non-believer in her 40s. One of the big turning points for her was actually reading the Bible. It's a fascinating story, and I'm sure you'd find it interesting.

I get that some might not agree with ALL that is written in the Bible.
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Well, there's "agree with" as in "believe is true" and "agree with" as in "think is morally correct". In which case, speaking just for myself, for the former I believe that there are some parts of the Bible which have value as a historical document, and some of it which is plainly and demonstrably not true. As for the latter, I'd say there's a lot more that I don't agree with than that I do. And some of it I couldn't disagree with more strongly. Forget the homosexuality references, what's your opinion on God sanctioning the rape of children? Happens more than once, you know. You have read the Bible, haven't you? So you do know about the genocides, infanticide and rape that is done with God's consent or under God's instructions, don't you?

As for me, I KNOW I don't KNOW everything...always open to learning something new.
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Really? Because that's not how you've presented yourself in this thread.

Do I believe in Jesus and that His teachings represent "TRUTH"...of course.
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In Matthew 15, Jesus advocates the murder of children for disobeying their parents. Do you believe that that is "TRUTH"? He says it again in Mark 7. I'm sure, therefore, that you also advocate the murder of disobedient children.

I will again offer one final Biblical quote for all here who claim that it is the very teachings in the Bible that have turned you into atheists...and REALLY PLEASE REFLECT on it and how it MAY or may not apply to you:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
1 Timothy 4 : 1-2
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2 pionts. Firstly, this would seem to apply to people doing things that the Bible expressly forbids, like consulting mediums. And secondly, a quote about demons isn't going to have any effect on people who don't believe in demons. You might as well substitute "elves" for "demons" and "Santa" for "Spirit" in that sentence for all the meaning it has for me and, I would imagine, all the other atheists in this thread.
 
Pixel42 said:
I do find it surprising how many Christians are under the impression that their dead relatives are already living happily in heaven; I thought it was fairly clear that the dead don't get resurrected until Judgement Day, when God will decide who gets to join him and who gets sent to The Other Place. In the meantime the dead sleep, and aren't available for conversations about fridges.
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Depends on your attitude toward particular judgment. Regardless, the dead might be available for conversations in a fridge.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I don't know if it's applicable to anybody that posts on this board, but it's one of the leading causes of Christians becoming atheists. For one take on it, I thoroughly recommend the funny and touching true monologue "Letting Go Of God" by Julia Sweeney. You can find the whole thing on YouTube. It's the story of how she went from wanting to be a nun when she was a child into being a non-believer in her 40s. One of the big turning points for her was actually reading the Bible. It's a fascinating story, and I'm sure you'd find it interesting.



Well, there's "agree with" as in "believe is true" and "agree with" as in "think is morally correct". In which case, speaking just for myself, for the former I believe that there are some parts of the Bible which have value as a historical document, and some of it which is plainly and demonstrably not true. As for the latter, I'd say there's a lot more that I don't agree with than that I do. And some of it I couldn't disagree with more strongly. Forget the homosexuality references, what's your opinion on God sanctioning the rape of children? Happens more than once, you know. You have read the Bible, haven't you? So you do know about the genocides, infanticide and rape that is done with God's consent or under God's instructions, don't you?



Really? Because that's not how you've presented yourself in this thread.



In Matthew 15, Jesus advocates the murder of children for disobeying their parents. Do you believe that that is "TRUTH"? He says it again in Mark 7. I'm sure, therefore, that you also advocate the murder of disobedient children.



2 pionts. Firstly, this would seem to apply to people doing things that the Bible expressly forbids, like consulting mediums. And secondly, a quote about demons isn't going to have any effect on people who don't believe in demons. You might as well substitute "elves" for "demons" and "Santa" for "Spirit" in that sentence for all the meaning it has for me and, I would imagine, all the other atheists in this thread.
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You know the commandments: ...you shall not murder... Luke 18:20

You know the commandments : you shall not murder, ... Mark 10:19

You shall not murder, ... Matthew 19:18
 
Robin Stettnisch said:
You know the commandments: ...you shall not murder... Luke 18:20

You know the commandments : you shall not murder, ... Mark 10:19

You shall not murder, ... Matthew 19:18
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Are you trying to quote the ten commandments? Then you'll need more than that and references to one of the multiple versions. You do know there is more than one version of the ten commandments, don't you? And by that I mean that the bible itself explicitly lists different versions. It also includes things you're probably not aware of like seething a kid in it's mother's milk.

Plus there are far more commandments than the ten. Do you follow Leviticus at all, or is it just something else to disregard while still calling yourself a believer in the bible?

Perhaps you ignore everything that isn't straight form the lips of Jesus. In that case you may want to read up on his support of slavery. In addition, I am surprised you care to have after-life communication with your father since you were supposed to hate your family and abandon them in order to follow Jesus.

It seems once again that you stumble onto a subject about which you are less knowledgeable, and your response is to say that we are the ones who are not so smart. To paraphrase you: If what you take away from this is that we (the skeptics here) feel that we know everything, then it is another in the pile of evidence that you have real difficulties in understanding what you read.
 
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Robin Stettnisch said:
You know the commandments: ...you shall not murder... Luke 18:20

You know the commandments : you shall not murder, ... Mark 10:19

You shall not murder, ... Matthew 19:18
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Obviously "murder" was my word, as I would consider killing your children for not obeying you to be murder. When Jesus sanctions it, though, he just calls it being "put to death".

So, as Jesus doesn't call it murder it's okay, right? It's the "TRUTH", and you are duty-bound to follow it. Unless, that is, you pick and choose which of Jesus' teachings you follow. Which would mean that you think that your morality is superior to Jesus'.
 
Garrette said:
Are you trying to quote the ten commandments? Then you'll need more than that and references to one of the multiple versions. You do know there is more than one version of the ten commandments, don't you? And by that I mean that the bible itself explicitly lists different versions. It also includes things you're probably not aware of like seething a kid in it's mother's milk.

Plus there are far more commandments than the ten. Do you follow Leviticus at all, or is it just something else to disregard while still calling yourself a believer in the bible?

Perhaps you ignore everything that isn't straight form the lips of Jesus. In that case you may want to read up on his support of slavery. In addition, I am surprised you care to have after-life communication with your father since you were supposed to hate your family and abandon them in order to follow Jesus.

It seems once again that you stumble onto a subject about which you are less knowledgeable, and your response is to say that we are the ones who are not so smart. To paraphrase you: If what you take away from this is that we (the skeptics here) feel that we know everything, then it is another in the pile of evidence that you have real difficulties in understanding what you read.
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Actually, no Garrette , I was quoting Jesus Himself...who of course was quoting the Ten Commandments. A fine distinction, but in general you really should try to read more carefully next time... as it can definitely affect your comprehension of the subject matter.
And for me, even though I was unable to change your mind, or Truethat, or slowvehicle, or Pixel42...or, well pretty much anybody and everybody who has commented on here... I still leave the Island of Non-believers with a happy, satisfied, hopeful heart. Because last I checked since I added my first comment to this particular thread there have been 3,446 people who have read it, and counting. Not to mention the 13,389 and counting people who have read my original thread...Proof of Life After Death. Still lovin' the title by the way.
And if I have reached even 1 person out of those thousands I believe my journey here was a successful one. And with that I will leave you all with one last quote...the most powerful I believe in the Bible and my personal favorite - " A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
John 13:34
 
Haven't convinced me of anything like that with the exception that you were fooled, which happens to everybody.
 
Robin Stettnisch said:
Proof of Life After Death. Still lovin' the title by the way.

And if I have reached even 1 person out of those thousands I believe my journey here was a successful one. And with that I will leave you all with one last quote...the most powerful I believe in the Bible and my personal favorite - " A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
John 13:34
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You've reached people all right, but not in the way you've intended.

In regards to your dishonest thread title, one can tell one of your unfavorite verses would be Matthew 19:18:
He said to him "Which ones?"
And Jesus said "Thou shall not murder, Thou shall not commit adultery, Thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness "

Ditto Proverbs 19:5, Exodus 20:16, Proverbs 19:9 First John 2:4 . . well you get the idea.

Bye, again.
 
Robin Stettnisch said:
Because last I checked since I added my first comment to this particular thread there have been 3,446 people who have read it, and counting. Not to mention the 13,389 and counting people who have read my original thread...Proof of Life After Death.
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No, that is not how it works. Anytime anyone views the thread, the count goes up. You or I could increase the view counter by just reloading the thread multiple times. So, no, there haven't been 3,446 people who have read it, or 13,389 your other one.

This sounds like the silly argument justintime was making in his idiotic thread.
 
Are Robin and Justintime dating? Did they have a trio with DOC? What's with the sudden rash of "hits=supporters" nonsense? Inquiring minds want to know!
 
Robin,

You are correct, you might reach one person here and change a mind. However, what about all the believers who might be attracted to this thread because of your posts? Any number of them might be converted to non-believers. This is a dangerous game you are playing.

Ward
 
Robin Stettnisch said:
But, in terms of how I would describe my overall beliefs a better term would be "spiritual" rather than "Catholic."
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Yes, you just cherry pick the parts of the Bible which accord with the Social mores that you alreadyaccept and completely ignore the rest.

Well, goodbye for the 14th, or is that the 15th time?

Norm
 
Robin Stettnisch said:
Actually, no Garrette , I was quoting Jesus Himself...who of course was quoting the Ten Commandments. A fine distinction, but in general you really should try to read more carefully next time... as it can definitely affect your comprehension of the subject matter.
And for me, even though I was unable to change your mind, or Truethat, or slowvehicle, or Pixel42...or, well pretty much anybody and everybody who has commented on here... I still leave the Island of Non-believers with a happy, satisfied, hopeful heart. Because last I checked since I added my first comment to this particular thread there have been 3,446 people who have read it, and counting. Not to mention the 13,389 and counting people who have read my original thread...Proof of Life After Death. Still lovin' the title by the way.
And if I have reached even 1 person out of those thousands I believe my journey here was a successful one. And with that I will leave you all with one last quote...the most powerful I believe in the Bible and my personal favorite - " A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
John 13:34
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I read carefully enough. It's why I talked about words straight from Jesus' lips, words which I notice you avoided just as you avoid the words pointed out by Squeegee. (And to be pedantic: you aren't quoting Jesus. You are quoting words attributed to him by people who never met him, even if he existed; people whose accounts not only vary widely but are wildly contradictory.)

Allow me to summarize just a few of the aspects of your argument which somehow you find compelling:

1. Others can be fooled by James Van Praagh, but you can't be fooled by John Edward

2. Anyone who says you are mistaken about John Edward is being cruel in denying comfort, but you are not being cruel in telling people they are mistaken about James Van Praagh

3. You know everything about cold reading and the tricks of mentalists yet you cannot demonstrate how John Edward's schtick differs from those tricks

4. You are too busy to summarize your blog for readers here, but we are not too busy to go read it

5. You have faith which does not constitute evidence but does constitute proof

6. Butterflies are your aunt

7. John Edward directed his comments specifically at you except that he didn't

8. John Edward directed the tooth remark directly at the fellow near you except that he didn't

9. John Edward said you had bought a refrigerator except really he asked the group

10. Your experience is compelling yet you won't discuss specifics

11. The Afterlife Experiments is compelling yet you won't discuss it (once you found out we know a great deal about it)

12. The exchange between Randi and Schwartz regarding The Afterlife Experiments is compelling yet you won't discuss it (once you found out we know a great deal about it)

13. You haven't read the whole bible yet find atheists who have to not know so much

14. You don't know about the nasty things Jesus is reported to have said and won't acknowledge them

15. You don't know about the multiple versions of the ten commandments and won't discuss them

16. You don't know about the biblical proscription againts mediums and won't discuss it

I'm tired. That should do.

I've no concerns over which way any lurkers will interpret this thread.
 
Garrette said:
I read carefully enough. It's why I talked about words straight from Jesus' lips, words which I notice you avoided just as you avoid the words pointed out by Squeegee. (And to be pedantic: you aren't quoting Jesus. You are quoting words attributed to him by people who never met him, even if he existed; people whose accounts not only vary widely but are wildly contradictory.)

Allow me to summarize just a few of the aspects of your argument which somehow you find compelling:

1. Others can be fooled by James Van Praagh, but you can't be fooled by John Edward

2. Anyone who says you are mistaken about John Edward is being cruel in denying comfort, but you are not being cruel in telling people they are mistaken about James Van Praagh

3. You know everything about cold reading and the tricks of mentalists yet you cannot demonstrate how John Edward's schtick differs from those tricks

4. You are too busy to summarize your blog for readers here, but we are not too busy to go read it

5. You have faith which does not constitute evidence but does constitute proof

6. Butterflies are your aunt

7. John Edward directed his comments specifically at you except that he didn't

8. John Edward directed the tooth remark directly at the fellow near you except that he didn't

9. John Edward said you had bought a refrigerator except really he asked the group

10. Your experience is compelling yet you won't discuss specifics

11. The Afterlife Experiments is compelling yet you won't discuss it (once you found out we know a great deal about it)

12. The exchange between Randi and Schwartz regarding The Afterlife Experiments is compelling yet you won't discuss it (once you found out we know a great deal about it)

13. You haven't read the whole bible yet find atheists who have to not know so much

14. You don't know about the nasty things Jesus is reported to have said and won't acknowledge them

15. You don't know about the multiple versions of the ten commandments and won't discuss them

16. You don't know about the biblical proscription againts mediums and won't discuss it

I'm tired. That should do.

I've no concerns over which way any lurkers will interpret this thread.
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Garrette, no, I can't say I agree with your summary. Listen, bottom line, I don't believe you or most people on here are deliberately trying to hurt anyone with your beliefs. And neither am I. And I think that matters...a lot. In actuality, I would have loved to hear about your "Castaneda phase" but I think you would agree that it's time to move on. And yes, I'm tired too. I do appreciate anyone who tried to engage in these debates (both here and on my thread) without purposely trying to be hurtful...and you know who you are. And I'm sorry for any responses on my part which showed my Sicilian side! Who knows, maybe in the next life some of us will even be friends...as long as you have nothing against short people, that is : ) Until then...Live long and prosper... : )
 
Robin Stettnisch said:
In actuality, I would have loved to hear about your "Castaneda phase" but I think you would agree that it's time to move on.
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Actually, I think that most of us would prefer it if you stuck around, listened to what we were saying, engaged with the points we make to you, and opened your mind a little.
 
I have seen John Edward live. He is impressive for sure. I doubt he has real powered though. Almost everyone at this performance was a believer more than willing confirm comments to get a reading.
 
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