How can peace in Syria be achieved?

[JihadJane]

'Western policy on Syria is failing on a monumental scale
The only way forward for Syria is to broker a political settlement, in consultation with Russia and Iran'

If Russia and Iran have been culpable, there has been a catastrophic failure of diplomacy by the west and its allies. UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon's call for a ceasefire and an arms embargo is a welcome challenge to the west's floundering policy. Britain, France and the US, as well as their allies, Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, need to recognise that neither side is going to win the civil war engulfing Syria. Nor will the Turkey's call for western military intervention to halt the humanitarian disaster resolve the crisis. A political solution has to be the priority.

The Syrian leader, Bashar al-Assad, is reported to be willing to consider the proposal by the UN-Arab League envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, for a ceasefire for the four-day Eid al-Adha holiday on 26 October. The western powers and the Arab arms suppliers should urge their friends in the opposition to declare they will reciprocate if Assad makes good on his tentative promise.

Western demands for regime change were never going to work because this isn't simply a conflict between a savage regime and the Syrian people. Assad and the ruling Shia-aligned Alawite minority form a tenth of the population and fear being oppressed by the Sunni majority. Christians and other minorities are similarly nervous. Together, those behind Assad constitute nearly a third of Syrians.

...

However unpalatable, Assad may have to be granted immunity in order to get him to sign up and stop his barbarity. All state employees, including those in the armed forces, must be allowed to keep their posts, to avoid a repeat of the chaos caused by America's de-Ba'athification in Iraq. A Yemen-type process may even figure. There, a hated president did not resign but did not stand for re-election. A coalition government of national unity could then prepare for Syrian elections, due in 2014.

The current British-American policy is failing on a monumental scale. Unless there is a radical change, all the hand-wringing and condemnation is either empty or hypocritical – or both.

Peter Hain - The Guardian

 

[JihadJane]

'Syria and Iran: Exposing the Lies and Disinformation '

Published on Oct 21, 2012 by Joe Friendly:



Activists and independent analysts on the Middle East disentangle the lies of the U.S. government and corporate media to destabilize and colonize Syria and Iran.SPEAKERS:
Ramsey Clark, Former Attorney General, Dr. Mazen Adi and Mr. Asaad Ibrahim, Permanent Mission of the Syrian Arab Republic to the United Nations, Lizzy Phelan, Independent Journalist and broadcaster who has reported from both Libya and Syria during the wars there, Ardeshir Ommani, American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), Larry Hales, International Action Center, Steve Becker, ANSWER Coalition, Larry Hales, International Action Center,
mediated by Eleanor Ommani, cofounder of the AIFC

Sponsoring Organizations: American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), ANSWER COALITION, International Action Center and New York Peace Council
Endorsed by CPRmetro.org Radio, Solidarity with Iran-SI, Veterans for Peace, Chpt. 21

 

[Virus]

'Syria and Iran: Exposing the Lies and Disinformation '

Published on Oct 21, 2012 by Joe Friendly:



Activists and independent analysts on the Middle East disentangle the lies of the U.S. government and corporate media to destabilize and colonize Syria and Iran.SPEAKERS:
Ramsey Clark, Former Attorney General, Dr. Mazen Adi and Mr. Asaad Ibrahim, Permanent Mission of the Syrian Arab Republic to the United Nations, Lizzy Phelan, Independent Journalist and broadcaster who has reported from both Libya and Syria during the wars there, Ardeshir Ommani, American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), Larry Hales, International Action Center, Steve Becker, ANSWER Coalition, Larry Hales, International Action Center,
mediated by Eleanor Ommani, cofounder of the AIFC

Sponsoring Organizations: American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), ANSWER COALITION, International Action Center and New York Peace Council
Endorsed by CPRmetro.org Radio, Solidarity with Iran-SI, Veterans for Peace, Chpt. 21

That's got to be the biggest Useful Idiot convention in history.

 

[Virus]

'Syria and Iran: Exposing the Lies and Disinformation '

Published on Oct 21, 2012 by Joe Friendly:



Activists and independent analysts on the Middle East disentangle the lies of the U.S. government and corporate media to destabilize and colonize Syria and Iran.SPEAKERS:
Ramsey Clark, Former Attorney General, Dr. Mazen Adi and Mr. Asaad Ibrahim, Permanent Mission of the Syrian Arab Republic to the United Nations, Lizzy Phelan, Independent Journalist and broadcaster who has reported from both Libya and Syria during the wars there, Ardeshir Ommani, American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), Larry Hales, International Action Center, Steve Becker, ANSWER Coalition, Larry Hales, International Action Center,
mediated by Eleanor Ommani, cofounder of the AIFC

Sponsoring Organizations: American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), ANSWER COALITION, International Action Center and New York Peace Council
Endorsed by CPRmetro.org Radio, Solidarity with Iran-SI, Veterans for Peace, Chpt. 21

Useful Idiot convention.

Only an utter twit would watch that.

 

[trustbutverify]

Wait, Nazi defender and all around POS Ramsey Clark is an Assadist??

Will wonders never cease?

 

[Toontown]

Activists and independent analysts on the Middle East disentangle the lies of the U.S. government and corporate media to destabilize and colonize Syria and Iran.

It is to laugh, Jane. Are you ever going to get real?

The last thing the U.S. wants to do is colonize Syria and Iran. They aren't worth colonizing. To do so would require a very heavy concentration of troops which would in turn require a draft - which isn't even on the remote horizon, not to mention completely inconsistent with the troop drawdown in Iraq.

In fact, Britain hurriedly abandoned it's former colonial interests in the region, because it wasn't worth it.

In fact, the U.S. has held to a long-standing policy position to the effect that colonialism, in the modern world, is counterproductive. No good for the colonizer or the colonized.

"Enlightened self-interest", Jane. Learn it.

 

[HoverBoarder]

Those figures aren't for protestors.

The UN had the estimate around 3,000-5,000 protesters killed before the Syrian people started to really fight back.

The Syrian regime has worked very hard to block information on their killings from reaching the people who are willing to hold them accountable for their war crimes, but there is more than enough information to charge many people under the regime for War crimes for their attacks on protesters and civilians.

i.e you don't know.

Your assertion is not true, nor is it something that would hold up in court.

When protesters in Idib province are fired on by police, there are multiple people at fault. There is the police themselves, there is the police commander, there is the governor, and like I said, you can just follow the chain of command.

All the way to Bashir Assad.

Which would all be part of the list of War Crime suspects that the UN has been compiling.



Add in all of the other cities where protesters were killed in mass, where civilian areas were shelled and bombed, and you have a very long list of regime suspects who have a large collection of evidence against them indicating that they are guilty of war crimes.


It is something that the UN has been keeping a long list on:

U.N. war crimes panel seeks access to Syria

U.N. expands list of Syrian war crimes suspects

 

[HoverBoarder]

'Syria and Iran: Exposing the Lies and Disinformation '

Published on Oct 21, 2012 by Joe Friendly:



Activists and independent analysts on the Middle East disentangle the lies of the U.S. government and corporate media to destabilize and colonize Syria and Iran.SPEAKERS:
Ramsey Clark, Former Attorney General, Dr. Mazen Adi and Mr. Asaad Ibrahim, Permanent Mission of the Syrian Arab Republic to the United Nations, Lizzy Phelan, Independent Journalist and broadcaster who has reported from both Libya and Syria during the wars there, Ardeshir Ommani, American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), Larry Hales, International Action Center, Steve Becker, ANSWER Coalition, Larry Hales, International Action Center,
mediated by Eleanor Ommani, cofounder of the AIFC

Sponsoring Organizations: American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), ANSWER COALITION, International Action Center and New York Peace Council
Endorsed by CPRmetro.org Radio, Solidarity with Iran-SI, Veterans for Peace, Chpt. 21

Thank you for your post JJ.

It's a great addition to the CT thread. I will add it to there now.

It is hard for me to find such obscure and seemingly incomprehensible reports, but you seem to have them on speed dial.

There was so much in those speeches that defied basic logic, that it is hard to believe that anyone would really take it seriously.


Do you really honestly think that the US would try to colonize Syria? Seriously?

Seriously?!?



I am part way through the video, but haven't found anything serious yet. Let me know if there are any serious claims that we must all be missing beyond the ridiculous unsubstantiated propoganda that I have seen so far.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I am part way through the video, but haven't found anything serious yet. Let me know if there are any serious claims that we must all be missing beyond the ridiculous unsubstantiated propoganda that I have seen so far.

A serious point made was that today, in this environment where even with huge efforts to shut up dissenting voices getting a complete picture of important issues is easier than ever before in history, it boils down to being on the side of the oppressor or being on the side of the oppressed. Nobody can say these days that they just "didn't know better". That didn't even fly for the Nazi Mitläufer seventy years ago, HoverBoarder.

 

[Virus]

it boils down to being on the side of the oppressor or being on the side of the oppressed.

Yeah and you're on Assad's side. The Syrian people are burning Russian, Iranian and Hezbollah flags at protests. It would be safe to assume they would hate your guts.

 

[Virus]

JJ before you started link-spamming videos of Communist lunatics you were provided with a source, which you asked for, for the number of protesters killed by the regime. So far there's been no response to that.

 

[trustbutverify]

JJ before you started link-spamming videos of Communist lunatics you were provided with a source, which you asked for, for the number of protesters killed by the regime. So far there's been no response to that.

Obviously, those weren't "protestors". They were Zionist infiltrators posing as protestors, but actually colonizing Syria for the CIA.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Hover Boarder is ignoring me now? I see none of the requested elucidation.

1) ignoring vs. not buying: What are we doing with 95-99% of the information published in the West about Syria?

2) 33,000 protesters. Can you back that up by doing anything other than posting that number again? And Virus says to JJ

JJ before you started link-spamming videos of Communist lunatics you were provided with a source, which you asked for, for the number of protesters killed by the regime. So far there's been no response to that.

There was a response to that. Post #220.
And TBV points out (sarcastically but mostly accurately)

Obviously, those weren't "protestors".

You want an estimate how many were protesters? I'd say a few hundred total of that list, mostly shot by snipers, probably mostly or totally of the unseen type that killed Sari Saoud and 19 Homs residents last November 26.

3) Rebel snuff films (such as those made with Sari's body). What's the proper use? As the propaganda rebels post the things as, or as material to analyze and learn from? You were implying some moral shortcoming in the latter approach I've taken. Can you explain that?

ETA:
4) Your basis for saying there would be dialog if Russia pulled its support and military intervention was possible. On what do you base this? Can you show that Western intervention can be expected to take the form of forcing talks, as opposed to dropping bombs? And can you show anywhere the rebels have said they'd ever be willing to talk, if the government was ever forced to? I don't think you can.

Do you ever acknowledge mistakes or correct yourself? Only if forced to, apparently. I feel like a dentist here.

 

[HoverBoarder]

Hover Boarder is ignoring me now? I see none of the requested elucidation.

Oh no, just didn't want to repeat things that has already been said.

1) ignoring vs. not buying: What are we doing with 95-99% of the information published in the West about Syria?

Most definitely ignoring. If you were not buying it, one would expect that you would look more into it.

Instead, you just move past any situation that does not contain enough propoganda support for the side that you are rooting for.

2) 33,000 protesters. Can you back that up by doing anything other than posting that number again?

Yeah, it is based on all of the groups that are bothering to count.

Don't you find it somewhat indicative of guilt that the Syrian regime doesn't even bother to count how many people are killed by artillery or air raids in their own country.

Just assume for a second that they are guilty of those acts. How would they act differently than they are now?

You want an estimate how many were protesters? I'd say a few hundred total of that list, mostly shot by snipers, probably mostly or totally of the unseen type that killed Sari Saoud and 19 Homs residents last November 26.

Your assumption is a lot farther off from those groups that have been counting the deaths.

AND don't tell me you're posting that Sari garbage again. There is nothing in that case to indicate that the attack was carried out by the FSA. That is about as dishonest propaganda as it gets. If you wanted examples of your question #1, it doesn't get any more obvious than that.

Why have I never seen you post anything about bread line bombings? Especially given how common they have become???

3) Rebel snuff films (such as those made with Sari's body). What's the proper use? As the propaganda rebels post the things as, or as material to analyze and learn from? You were implying some moral shortcoming in the latter approach I've taken. Can you explain that?

Sure. There is nothing in the Sari case that indicates FSA guilt besides them taking pictures of the boy which they do for thousands of other people killed by artillery, air strikes, snipers, and regime raids.

By not paying any attention to any of the information that shows guilt from the regime of numerous war crimes and human rights abuses unless you see video/picture evidence of the killings, that is only settling for snuff films. Even when you do see that evidence, your first comment is that they must be faked.

That is not serious honest analysis.

ETA:
4) Your basis for saying there would be dialog if Russia pulled its support and military intervention was possible. On what do you base this?

It's a basic simple fact. The Syrian regime would not be able to continue their war without outside support, complacency, and assistance.

If Russia had never allowed the regime to kill their people in such large numbers just because they were demanded fair treatment, there would never have been a Syrian conflict.

If Russia today stopped their unconditional support for the Syrian regime, the war could stop tomorrow.

Can you show that Western intervention can be expected to take the form of forcing talks, as opposed to dropping bombs?

The West is interested in a stabilized Syria. If Russia stopped supporting the regime's pointless war, or if Iran stopped supporting the regime's pointless war, there would be no need for a conflict, because the only reason there is a conflict is because the Assad regime is continuing to kill tens of thousands of their own citizens to maintain minority rule.

The only reason that Assad is able to continue his war of terror on his people is because he is being given weapons and support to do so, and the only thing the West would have to do is to help support the peace process.

And can you show anywhere the rebels have said they'd ever be willing to talk, if the government was ever forced to? I don't think you can.

Why would they not be?

It would be pretty illogical to claim that the FSA never wants an end to the war in Syria.

Do you really think that they would want war in Syria for the rest of their lives.

That is pretty illogical to think.

They just don't want the regime to continue to kill Syrians by the tens of thousands. And they don't want the regime to continue to abduct, torture, and kill innocent Syrians by the tens of thousands.

Do you ever acknowledge mistakes or correct yourself? Only if forced to, apparently. I feel like a dentist here.

Of course I acknowledge mistakes.

What specific mistakes have I made?

It seems more that you are more uncomfortable with calling out areas where you or CL have been dishonest about the propaganda that you are promoting.

 

[HoverBoarder]

'Syria and Iran: Exposing the Lies and Disinformation '

Published on Oct 21, 2012 by Joe Friendly:



Activists and independent analysts on the Middle East disentangle the lies of the U.S. government and corporate media to destabilize and colonize Syria and Iran.SPEAKERS:
Ramsey Clark, Former Attorney General, Dr. Mazen Adi and Mr. Asaad Ibrahim, Permanent Mission of the Syrian Arab Republic to the United Nations, Lizzy Phelan, Independent Journalist and broadcaster who has reported from both Libya and Syria during the wars there, Ardeshir Ommani, American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), Larry Hales, International Action Center, Steve Becker, ANSWER Coalition, Larry Hales, International Action Center,
mediated by Eleanor Ommani, cofounder of the AIFC

Sponsoring Organizations: American Iranian Friendship Committee (AIFC), ANSWER COALITION, International Action Center and New York Peace Council
Endorsed by CPRmetro.org Radio, Solidarity with Iran-SI, Veterans for Peace, Chpt. 21

I don't know if anyone bothered to watch this, but it is just as sad, baseless, and tin-foil-hat CT based as the description of it made it out to be.

One of the first speakers was almost cute in how naive he was. He started off his speech by noting how at first the protesters in Syria had a legitimate and justifiable right to demand for reforms. When he said that, you could almost hear the collective gasp from the audience. That kind of admission was a major no-no at this type of baseless propaganda only convention. The speaker went on to note how Assad would meet with 200 protesters a day just to hear all of their concerns. personal, or whatever, and Assad would do his best to meet their demands. And then all of a sudden people started to fight back for really no reason at all.

After that, the man's speech was cut off as they had gotten what they needed out of the token Syrian at the event in order to save time for the more radical main course that would follow. The speakers gradually got crazier and crazier with each speaker, and pretty quickly the propaganda went from so ridiculous it is funny, to downright scary.

One of the later speakers noted how because capitalism was failing, he would support anyone who would oppose America. It was a scary blanket assertion that as long as they opposed America, they were good. Which of course sounded a lot like many of the murderous totalitarion states that he listed off as being happy to support. Definitely downright scary.

At the end, being nowhere near reality with no facts to back up their crazed ramblings was the least of the problems with the group. The problem is that they really though they were being serious when there was not one serious point among all of them.

 

[HoverBoarder]

By the way, three day truce.

Cool I guess, better than nothing, but not a substitute for a real peace plan.

Syrian Military Declares Holiday Truce, but Will Respond to Attacks

 

[trustbutverify]

One of the later speakers noted how because capitalism was failing, he would support anyone who would oppose America.

Now we're getting down to what all of this is really all about.

 

[JihadJane]

The UN had the estimate around 3,000-5,000 protesters killed before the Syrian people started to really fight back.

The Syrian regime has worked very hard to block information on their killings from reaching the people who are willing to hold them accountable for their war crimes, but there is more than enough information to charge many people under the regime for War crimes for their attacks on protesters and civilians.

On what evidence is the UN estimate based on?

Please be specific rather than offering the usual vague generalisations

Your assertion is not true, nor is it something that would hold up in court.

When protesters in Idib province are fired on by police, there are multiple people at fault. There is the police themselves, there is the police commander, there is the governor, and like I said, you can just follow the chain of command.

All the way to Bashir Assad.

Which would all be part of the list of War Crime suspects that the UN has been compiling.



Add in all of the other cities where protesters were killed in mass, where civilian areas were shelled and bombed, and you have a very long list of regime suspects who have a large collection of evidence against them indicating that they are guilty of war crimes.


It is something that the UN has been keeping a long list on:

U.N. war crimes panel seeks access to Syria

U.N. expands list of Syrian war crimes suspects

Your meandering generalizations confirm that my assertion is indeed true. You clearly have no idea who ordered that protestors be killed.

Thank you for your post JJ.

It's a great addition to the CT thread. I will add it to there now

Thought-stopping, juvenile name-calling.

It is hard for me to find such obscure and seemingly incomprehensible reports, but you seem to have them on speed dial.

There was so much in those speeches that defied basic logic, that it is hard to believe that anyone would really take it seriously.


Do you really honestly think that the US would try to colonize Syria? Seriously?

Seriously?!?

Argument from incredulity.

To survive, rapacious, globalized corporate capitalism needs to be constantly growing and seeking new markets to colonize and new resources to feed off. The US military acts as its enforcer. It's a game that has been going on for decades. That is why this parasitic economic system cannot tolerate countries like Iraq, Syria, Libya and Iran that seek or sought to remain independent of the petro-dollar's blood-sucking tyranny

'War is a Racket by Smedley Butler'

I am part way through the video, but haven't found anything serious yet. Let me know if there are any serious claims that we must all be missing beyond the ridiculous unsubstantiated propoganda that I have seen so far.

Whatever.

When he said that, you could almost hear the collective gasp from the audience.

You can either hear it or you can't.

Don't you find it somewhat indicative of guilt that the Syrian regime doesn't even bother to count how many people are killed by artillery or air raids in their own country.

"We don't do body counts" - Gen. Tommy Franks

 

[JihadJane]

Of course I acknowledge mistakes.

What specific mistakes have I made?

Responding to a question about how many protestors have been killed with:

"Syria death toll hits 33,082"

 

[Caustic Logic]

Oh no, just didn't want to repeat things that has already been said.

Link to where you already answered those questions? Lose.

Most definitely ignoring. If you were not buying it, one would expect that you would look more into it.

You don't look into anything, 100% ignore rate. You just buy it wholesale, and criticize us for not doing that, and only having time to look into (let's say) 1-5% to your ZERO. Lose.

Instead, you just move past any situation that does not contain enough propoganda support for the side that you are rooting for.

Lose, your usual kind, stating the truth exactly opposite.

Yeah, it is based on all of the groups that are bothering to count.

Every group that "counts" (counts bodies or matters?) has said 33,000 PROTESTERS have been killed? Do you know what "protester" usually means? Can you cite just one of those groups, direct words where they say that, please. Or else, please pay attention to what your forum members are saying.

Lose.

Don't you find it somewhat indicative of guilt that the Syrian regime doesn't even bother to count how many people are killed by artillery or air raids in their own country.

Just assume for a second that they are guilty of those acts. How would they act differently than they are now?

What makes you think they don't count? NATO didn't in Libya, and wouldn't be if they were carpet bombing Syria right now. But I believe the gov. there does. There's a group called the Syrian Center for Documentation that tries to keep a daily tally from Syrian gov, SANA, outside, and all sources.

I think you made that up completely. I think it's indicative of lose.

Your assumption is a lot farther off from those groups that have been counting the deaths.

Prove it. (extension of the above, same proof). Do you know what a PROTESTER is?

AND don't tell me you're posting that Sari garbage again.

Defend "garbage." Last time you acknowledged anything it was so maybe I am right (the rebels did kill that kid), but I was ignoring everything else. You never explained what's wrong with that case, and until you do, LOSE.

And I'll post it as often as I like until anyone can find anything wrong with it.

There is nothing in that case to indicate that the attack was carried out by the FSA. That is about as dishonest propaganda as it gets. If you wanted examples of your question #1, it doesn't get any more obvious than that.

That's simply untrue. Any casual reader can see that. You need to address the indicators I provide in the article and show why they aren't. AND I didn't really spell out the basic logic you can't refute that those "regime snipers" didn't bother shooting the FSA-activist guys who within moments were in the same field of fire scooping up the proof of their crime and make their own propaganda snuff films with it. That indicates - doesn't prove but indicates - the snipers and them were on the same team.

Why have I never seen you post anything about bread line bombings?

Too busy. Gut instinct, with zero tactical advantage for the gov. and maxinal propaganda value against it, is the rebels' little Islamo-nihilist gremlins would be guilty of these too. It was found to be the case in a famous Bosnian bread queue mortar "shelling" massacre (yep - see here). Guess what - no supporting investigation yet. Guess I'm "ignoring it." Whereas you can copy and past from any number of pre-written articles and hoo-boy isn't that scholarly.

Lose.

Especially given how common they have become???

Yes. The rebels have more weapons, not less, all the time. Lose.

Sure. There is nothing in the Sari case that indicates FSA guilt besides them taking pictures of the boy which they do for thousands of other people [allegedly] killed by artillery, air strikes, snipers, and regime raids.

Covered, but for the inserted [alleged].

OKay, a main point, and thank you

By not paying any attention to any of the information that shows guilt from the regime of numerous war crimes and human rights abuses unless you see video/picture evidence of the killings, that is only settling for snuff films. Even when you do see that evidence, your first comment is that they must be faked.

That is not serious honest analysis.

In other words, as I thought, by preferring sources where verifiable visual evidence exists, and paying "no attention" to anything else (false), I "only settle for" (prefer) "snuff films" (verifiable evidence from the scenes of events). SOmetimes that verifiability helps clarify how completely fake it is. Consider the Guardian describing a video showing regime artillery shells "crashing down," but the availability of that video for study clearly shows (to a 99% probability) what's at that link.

It's a strange and partly mistaken way to say it, but in essence that's just it. I refuse to just buy it, and want to see the most direct evidence with my own eyes and brain. I don't see any moral judgment there, just the usual desperate scramble to defend your unfounded position and statements.

It's a basic simple fact.

No it's not. You didn't answer the question. You answered some made-up version of it. Lose.

If Russia today stopped their unconditional support for the Syrian regime, the war could stop tomorrow.

Mechanism of that? They say "we don't support" and Assad says "okay, we will negotiate" and then you think the rebels would say okay? Nice opinion, no support, little logic. Anyone can see that. Lose.

The West is interested in a stabilized Syria. If Russia stopped supporting the regime's pointless war,

For national survival here. Pointless. You ...

The only reason that Assad is able to continue his war of terror on his people is because ...

He still has, after almost two years of this, the support of most Syrians. How many generals, soldiers, diplomats, media voices, voters, have not "defected?" I find it suspicious how so few crusaders want to try counting them.

Of course I acknowledge mistakes.

What specific mistakes have I made?

Specific ones? Well, just one simple and baffling one. Do you still think 33,000 PROTESTERS have been killed in Syria? Yes or no or it's another lose. And how many people total do you think have died? Based on your sources, we're at what, 100,000? Are the rebels keeping count of the soldiers and postmen they kill? What percentage of the total are people saying were actual protesters?

Now we're getting down to what all of this is really all about.

No, sorry, you are not gettin' down. You don't even have the beat yet.