Gillard labels Abbott a misogynist

Magenta · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
I have noticed a softening in attitude here in recent posts, people seem to be moving away from the 'misogynist' label towards a softer "sexist"-type tag.

I would draw your attention to two things:
1/ The fact that Gillard called him a sexist AND a misogynist. I am fairly certain she knows the difference between one and another - she does throw them around a bit.
2/ The Op addresses the latter. Please keep on topic or our resident dobber might just get another thread closed down.

1. Abbott used the words sexism and misogyny. Gillard lobbed them back at him.

2. I don't think the thread title precludes a broader discussion, but I could ask the mods to change it if you like.

A.A. Alfie said:
You seem to be in furious agreement with her.

I'm not actually. I should have put the part I was disagreeing with in a quote box rather than the post title:

Under her new paradigm any criticism of any woman is off-limits…

Apologies for confusing things. Post corrected now.

HoverBoarder · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
LOL
[laughing mode]Go ahead and show me where it is - I'll support it. No problem.[/laughing mode]

I have noticed a softening in attitude here in recent posts, people seem to be moving away from the 'misogynist' label towards a softer "sexist"-type tag.

I would draw your attention to two things:
1/ The fact that Gillard called him a sexist AND a misogynist. I am fairly certain she knows the difference between one and another - she does throw them around a bit.
2/ The Op addresses the latter. Please keep on topic or our resident dobber might just get another thread closed down.

Well, good that you would support an investigation.

Since they were pretty serious charges that Gillard brought against Abbot, I am very surprised that there is no official investigation into the conduct of Tony Abbot going on right now, or why there hasn't been an investigation into the actions of the man a long time ago for that matter.

From what Gillard claims, there is a pattern of excessively inappropriate behavior from Abbot that should have deemed him unfit for office long ago.

Not sure why that investigation hasn't happened yet.

Hallo Alfie · Oct 16, 2012

Magenta said:
Abbott used the words sexism and misogyny. Gillard lobbed them back at him.

Maybe (I will take your word for it). But she accused him of being both - not one or the other.

The OP specifically refers to the latter

Magenta said:
I'm not actually. I should have put the part I was disagreeing with in a quote box rather than the post title:

Why are you not in furious agreement with her? The argument you put up seems to run parallel with Nash's comments.

Magenta · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
Why are you not in furious agreement with her? The argument you put up seems to run parallel with Nash's comments.

Nash is saying *any* criticism is off limits. That's not right, it's the sexist stuff that is the problem.

Hallo Alfie · Oct 16, 2012

Magenta said:
Nash is saying *any* criticism is off limits. That's not right, it's the sexist stuff that is the problem.

Umm.. no.
She is saying that if anyone should dare to criticise Gillard or her policies, Gillard and the yabbie disciples scream "MISOGYNIST!"

This, in turn makes everything off limits because it doesn't matter what is said, the response will be the same. Further, this demeans women and helps perpetuate the weaker sexsexist paradigm: Gillard is working against herself and the standing of women generally by playing the victim card.

Akhenaten · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
Umm..

<snip>

What's a yabbie disciple?

lionking · Oct 16, 2012

Akhenaten said:
What's a yabbie disciple?

Yabbie is an insulting word for Gillard. Amongst her many crimes is that she is a redhead.

Shiner · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
LOL
[laughing mode]Go ahead and show me where it is - I'll support it. No problem.[/laughing mode]

I have noticed a softening in attitude here in recent posts, people seem to be moving away from the 'misogynist' label towards a softer "sexist"-type tag.

I would draw your attention to two things:
1/ The fact that Gillard called him a sexist AND a misogynist. I am fairly certain she knows the difference between one and another - she does throw them around a bit.
2/ The Op addresses the latter. Please keep on topic or our resident dobber might just get another thread closed down.

So you missed this bit ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/magazine/08wwln-safire-t.html?fta=y&_r=2&

...When I looked up the word she chose in the Oxford English Dictionary online, however, I noted that the meaning of misogynist had changed slightly but significantly. In 1989, the definition was “hatred of women”; in the 2002 revision, the definition was broadened to “hatred or dislike of, or prejudice against women.”

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8694629&postcount=255

Hallo Alfie · Oct 16, 2012

lionking said:
Yabbie is an insulting word for Gillard.

Why is it insulting exactly?
Do you think "mad monk" is not insulting? Or "scum"? Or "misogynist"?

lionking said:
Amongst her many crimes is that she is a redhead.

So am I. So what?
Why is it a crime?

Hallo Alfie · Oct 16, 2012

Shiner said:
So you missed this bit ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/magazine/08wwln-safire-t.html?fta=y&_r=2&

That might even be relevant if she had used just the one word: "misogynyst". But she used both words "sexist" AND "misogynist".
The "sexist" part captures the softer side of that definition (one that has not been presented here btw), the "misogynist" represents the harder hate side.

And I didn't miss it, it's just that a quote from a foreign politician discussing (presumably) another event, on another day, on another continent, about another person or people. One that is actually hearsay and not supported with fact seems as irrelevant now as it did then.

Akhenaten · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
lionking said:

Yabbie is an insulting word for Gillard.

Click to expand...

Why is it insulting exactly?
Do you think "mad monk" is not insulting? Or "scum"? Or "misogynist"?

I guess it depends on that 'context' thingy that you were rabbitting on about earlier.

Here comes some now:

A.A. Alfie said:
a_unique_person said:

. . . did he [Alan Jones] refer to Gillard as "the Yabbie"?

Click to expand...

If he didn't, I did.

Yabbie: the tish is in it's head, the meat in the tail.

A.A. Alfie said:
lionking said:

Amongst her many crimes is that she is a redhead.

Click to expand...

So am I. So what?
Why is it a crime?

It's not a crime, but it certainly underscores for those playing at home why you're so supportive of Mr Misogyny.

Magenta · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
Umm.. no.
She is saying that if anyone should dare to criticise Gillard or her policies, Gillard and the yabbie disciples scream "MISOGYNIST!"

This, in turn makes everything off limits because it doesn't matter what is said, the response will be the same. Further, this demeans women and helps perpetuate the weaker sexsexist paradigm: Gillard is working against herself and the standing of women generally by playing the victim card.

Can you show an example where the PM or any female ministers have deflected criticism by "playing the victim card"?

A.A. Alfie said:
And I didn't miss it, it's just that a quote from a foreign politician discussing (presumably) another event, on another day, on another continent, about another person or people. One that is actually hearsay and not supported with fact seems as irrelevant now as it did then.

I used that quote to illustrate the OED's changing definition of misogyny. The OED is only available to me through a database and I could not link to it directly, but the definition is accurate as quoted by Safire.

Shiner · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
That might even be relevant if she had used just the one word: "misogynyst". But she used both words "sexist" AND "misogynist".
The "sexist" part captures the softer side of that definition (one that has not been presented here btw), the "misogynist" represents the harder hate side.

And I didn't miss it, it's just that a quote from a foreign politician discussing (presumably) another event, on another day, on another continent, about another person or people. One that is actually hearsay and not supported with fact seems as irrelevant now as it did then.

bit_pattern · Oct 16, 2012

Reminds me of the old islamophobia semantic hand waving

Akhenaten · Oct 16, 2012

bit_pattern said:
Reminds me of the old islamophobia semantic hand waving.

It was a happy day indeed when the main perpetrator of that vile crap realised that he couldn't get anyone here on side with his racist and xenophobic poison and decided to pull the pin.

Wildy · Oct 16, 2012

Magenta said:
Fiona Nash is completely wrong about this. Criticising a woman (or better still, her policies) is not sexism. Using gendered language and sexist epithets to criticise a woman is sexism. And it's not a problem of only one side of politics. The opposition have been running this false assertion a lot lately.

ETA I've put the statement I was disagreeing with in a quote box to avoid confusion. See posts # 260 & 261 below.

The opposition have been pulling all the stops in getting their female party members to come out and denounce the PM for her comments. Too bad public opinion doesn't agree with them.

Hallo Alfie · Oct 16, 2012

Akhenaten said:
It's not a crime, but it certainly underscores for those playing at home why you're so supportive of Mr Misogyny.

???

Magenta said:
Can you show an example where the PM or any female ministers have deflected criticism by "playing the victim card"?

Yep: every time they scream misogynist.
The latest case in point is this thread.

Abbott: Sack Slipper he is unfit and the Labor party are supporting him.
Gillard: You misogynistic pig.

Morrigan · Oct 16, 2012

The mental gymnastics of Alfie's rabid anti-Gillard partisanship certainly are hilarious. "It's not misogyny because he does not have a sheer unadulterated rabid hatred of women!" Despite the fact that even dictionary definitions of misogyny got thrown in his face that show no such rabid hatred is necessary for the label to fit.

Might as well say Focus on the Family isn't homophobic because it's not "afraid" of gays.

For the last time: if someone said that blacks are inferior leaders than whites, that would make him a racist, even if he adds, "my best friend is black and I really like them, I certainly don't hate them!".

But no worries, I'm sure we'll get more handwaving, more mental gymnastics, more evasions, and most of all, some whining about imagined missing context.

Hallo Alfie · Oct 16, 2012

Shiner said:
The point you artfully dodge is that the use of the word misogynyst has evolved from just meaning hatred to include prejudice as well.

"Sexist and Misogynist" was used. Which is which? One seems less strong, the other very strong. If it were otherwise she would have said "you are a sexist and a sexist".

Shiner said:
Your comment about the point not being raised is blatant dishonesty.

??
I said I disn't miss it; I didn't comment because it was and is irrelevant.

Morrigan · Oct 16, 2012

A.A. Alfie said:
???

Yep: every time they scream misogynist.
The latest case in point is this thread.

Abbott: Sack Slipper he is unfit and the Labor party are supporting him.
Gillard: You misogynistic pig.

That is not an accurate description of what happened. Here's one:

Abbott: Women are less suited than men at leadership. Cause they're, you know, "different". Also lol ironing housewives teehee. Ditch That Witch!
Abbott: Btw, Mrs. PM, please oust Slipper, he sent sexist and misogynistic text messages.
Gillard: You've got to be #%?&?% me...!

Gillard labels Abbott a misogynist

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