"I don't believe in coincidences"

Puppycow

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I've seen at least two people who were promoting conspiracy theories say this (two that I can clearly recall right now) and I've probably heard similar sentiments expressed on several other occasions.

It seems like a strange belief to me. It's one thing to argue that a particular set of facts is not merely a coincidence, but to have a general belief that coincidences never happen seems bizarre. Coincidences happen all the time.

Is this a religious-based worldview? I know that some people say that everything that happens is part of some plan by God. Is that the source of this manner of thinking?
 
I've seen at least two people who were promoting conspiracy theories say this (two that I can clearly recall right now) and I've probably heard similar sentiments expressed on several other occasions.

It seems like a strange belief to me. It's one thing to argue that a particular set of facts is not merely a coincidence, but to have a general belief that coincidences never happen seems bizarre. Coincidences happen all the time.

Is this a religious-based worldview? I know that some people say that everything that happens is part of some plan by God. Is that the source of this manner of thinking?

I'd think it's Hollywood influenced more-so than religiously influenced. It's a paraphrased quote from "V for Vendetta".
 
Is this a religious-based worldview?

What else would you call it when someone's desperate to ascribe intent to phenomena without any reason to do so?

Every time I hear someone dismiss the official story of any event as "coincidence theory," I know I'm dealing with someone with credulity to burn.
 
Last week, as we were tidying up after our recorder evening class in Edinburgh and putting the school desks back, I noticed the name of one of the pupils was Tristan. I commented to the tutor that I wouldn't saddle any child with that one. We conversed for about 15 seconds about the name, its meaning, and the tragic story of Tristan and Isolde with particular reference to the Wagner opera of that name.

I then got into my car to drive home, and the radio came on when I switched on the ignition. Coming out of the speakers was - Act One of Wagner's Tristan and Isolde, live from the Usher Hall in Edinburgh.

No, I don't believe in coincidences....

Rolfe.
 
I've seen at least two people who were promoting conspiracy theories say this (two that I can clearly recall right now) and I've probably heard similar sentiments expressed on several other occasions.

It seems like a strange belief to me. It's one thing to argue that a particular set of facts is not merely a coincidence, but to have a general belief that coincidences never happen seems bizarre. Coincidences happen all the time.

Is this a religious-based worldview? I know that some people say that everything that happens is part of some plan by God. Is that the source of this manner of thinking?

It goes hand-in-hand with the "there are no accidents" position.

There are certainly religious types that take those positions, but some of the application of the phrase wrt CT's is just an attempt to hand-wave away inconvenient facts on the part of the individual making the claim.
 
Honestly given the vast number of events that occur under similar conditions I'm frankly amazed to the point of being a little creeped out that more coincidences don't happen and so many unique and statistically improbable things manage to occur.
 
In Novemeber 2005 I helped a French girl struggling with English get through exit customs at San Francisco airport. Two years later that same girl came up and tapped me on the shoulder and said hello while I waited for a taxi in Australia.
 
Is this a religious-based worldview? I know that some people say that everything that happens is part of some plan by God. Is that the source of this manner of thinking?


I think that belief in a divine plan and belief in shadowy manipulation of events are just variations of the same basic belief: a higher and/or unseen power is what makes things happen and with a purpose.

It's, in a way, probably more comfortable to believe that there's an intelligent entity in control that you can attempt to influence. Some people pray to God, others protest outside of Bilderberg meetings.
 
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Last week, as we were tidying up after our recorder evening class in Edinburgh and putting the school desks back, I noticed the name of one of the pupils was Tristan. I commented to the tutor that I wouldn't saddle any child with that one. We conversed for about 15 seconds about the name, its meaning, and the tragic story of Tristan and Isolde with particular reference to the Wagner opera of that name.

I then got into my car to drive home, and the radio came on when I switched on the ignition. Coming out of the speakers was - Act One of Wagner's Tristan and Isolde, live from the Usher Hall in Edinburgh.

No, I don't believe in coincidences....

Rolfe.
.
Sometimes I'll flash on some obscure celebrity, and encounter a story about that celebrity within the next 24 hours.
I have, though, never flashed on any of your relatives.
Nor anyone else's.
Only people I know or know of.
 
Another old saying in the same vein is "everything happens for a reason".
.
Certainly does.
I skinned my knee Saturday putting a foot wrong and fell down.
The reasons are the misfooting, and gravity.
 
Last week, as we were tidying up after our recorder evening class in Edinburgh and putting the school desks back, I noticed the name of one of the pupils was Tristan. I commented to the tutor that I wouldn't saddle any child with that one. We conversed for about 15 seconds about the name, its meaning, and the tragic story of Tristan and Isolde with particular reference to the Wagner opera of that name.

I then got into my car to drive home, and the radio came on when I switched on the ignition. Coming out of the speakers was - Act One of Wagner's Tristan and Isolde, live from the Usher Hall in Edinburgh.

No, I don't believe in coincidences....


Assuming you're being serious, that's only because you're ignoring the thousands of misses. How many people not at the class, or even aware of this kid named Tristan, were also listening to the radio at the same time, or not listening at all? How many people at the class didn't have their radios tuned to the same station?

Is a coincidence more or less likely to be an externally controlled event if you're the only one to experience it, and in part due to your own actions (in your case, at some point tuning the radio to that particular station)?
 
Puppycow;8674774...to have a general belief that coincidences never happen seems bizarre. Coincidences happen [I said:
all the time[/I].

Indeed, nothing galvanized my view on this more than practicum in forensic engineering. Yes, you learn investigative theory and observational methodology. But when you actually go out on accident scenes and realize that you're interested in only one causal chain among the several dozen irrelevant ones that were halted by the accident -- all of whose evidence is intermingled with what you want to see -- you realize that coincidence is mostly a psychological thing.

It goes hand-in-hand with the "there are no accidents" position.

That's the duality of forensic engineering. On the one hand, we understand that there is such a thing as a "normal accident," simply because the complexity of what we're trying to do outpaces our ability to understand and control it. No matter how safe you make a system, it will always be operated in a way that accepts a certain risk of failure.

Shipping is always my favorite example. Despite our numerous advances in shipbuilding and navigation, the accident rate for heavy-tonnage shipping remains fairly constant over the past 50 years and longer. Why? Because the safety margins provided by new technology end up getting used to expand production capacity and reap more profits. Where a ship 75 years ago would have had to creep carefully through the fog in a confined harbor, and radar- and GPS-equipped ship can run the same harbor at higher speeds, leading to more ship traffic per unit time and more commerce.

Hence accidents, in the form of preventable failure, will always continue to happen. It's human nature. But yes, in many cases you can look at something that first appears to be coincidental and, with careful investigation, unravel the unforeseen causes and effects. And many of those end up being putatively preventable and predictable.

So that's the engineering take on it. You can always do better, and you should. But at the same time life is remarkably complex and will disorganize itself in ways you can't predict.

In the broader sense, "There are no accidents" as an explanation for, say, Kennedy's assassination leads the conspiracy-minded to attribute all manner of meaning to the presence or absence of certain observations they would consider to be connected.

What else would you call it when someone's desperate to ascribe intent to phenomena without any reason to do so?

Or, stated otherwise:

Another old saying in the same vein is "everything happens for a reason".

You call such people conspiracy theorists. As I mentioned, coincidence is a psychological phenomenon because the determination of coincidence is subjective.

If I wash my car and it rains later that day, that's an unfortunate coincidence. For me. For those who didn't wash their car, and on all the other days it rained, there is no "coincidence" in the sense of there being no need to explain some salient combination of events. Raw coincidence, literally defined as the occurrence in similar time or space of two or more circumstances or events, happens all the time, as previously noted. Those events become a coincidence only because of the meaning and significance we attribute to them, often only because some outcome gets our attention.

For them, the gravity of the outcome requires inordinate intent or significance in the causal chain. And often we have a vested interest in one leg of the coincidence. For example, if you shred evidence of tax evasion and throw it out, you'll be more attuned to the homeless man on that day as he paws through your trash looking for recyclables. How often has he done that? But on that day you might be more suspicious.

It ultimately comes down to expectations. We normally expect things to go right. We expect to be happy. We expect good news. Those things tend not to stick in our medium-term memories. When bad things happen according to a normal schedule, this violates our expectations. That artificial increase in salience compels us to look for causation, and to suggest without much evidence that the causation must be intentional because we don't want to accept that excrement just happens.
 
.Sometimes I'll flash on some obscure celebrity, and encounter a story about that celebrity within the next 24 hours.

Yes, that happens to me too. Just the other day I thought about having coffee with my friend Chris, even to the point of going out to the coffee shop we frequent and seeing if he were already there. An hour or so later, Chris called me and invited me to coffee!

Suspicious coincidence? No. It turns out I'd thought about a number of people that day, and a number of activities. Only one of them manifested itself in reality. And Chris is a frequent coffee buddy of mine; we go out around twice a week. So psychologically speaking, the entirely-predictable event of going to coffee with a particular friend connected with one of several thoughts that day and created a salient coincidence.
 
"I don't believe in coincidence."

"Well, that's a coincidence, I don't believe in them either."
 
Assuming you're being serious, that's only because you're ignoring the thousands of misses. How many people not at the class, or even aware of this kid named Tristan, were also listening to the radio at the same time, or not listening at all? How many people at the class didn't have their radios tuned to the same station?

Is a coincidence more or less likely to be an externally controlled event if you're the only one to experience it, and in part due to your own actions (in your case, at some point tuning the radio to that particular station)?


For goodness sake, is everybody in this thread completely free from any appreciation of nuance at all?

Rolfe.
 
I was gonna comment on that too.
OBTW, tell your Aunt Maude to beware the Ides of October.
 

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