iPhone 5

[This is The End]

It's also crazy to attribute them to Samsung no?

Agreed. If anyone gets credit, it's 1970s Sony!

 

[This is The End]

There were of course dirty little design reasons why a larger screen was problematic. iOS didn't have scaling built in very well. It couldn't do different screen sizes without a lot of tweaking. This had some advantages sure, but it became a liability when people wanted versatility.

Which could be one of the reasons they just made the i5 taller instead of bigger. Old apps that don't scale will have a black bar at the top, instead of on 2 or all sides (centered)....

 

[tyr_13]

Agreed. If anyone gets credit, it's 1970s Sony!

A much more defensible position!

Which could be one of the reasons they just made the i5 taller instead of bigger. Old apps that don't scale will have a black bar at the top, instead of on 2 or all sides (centered)....

That's true. They didn't actually scale at all. The icons aren't even larger, they just added a fifth row and are saying it's so you don't need as many home pages. The pixel density is even the same, so no change at all for all the old programs apps (I still don't see a good reason to call them that).

However, the longer and not wider also makes 16:9, an extremely common video format, more supportable.

 

[Furcifer]

But Apple likes to have proprietary interfaces, not because theirs are any better but because they can charge the rubes more money.

My current phone has a mini USB, that was another selling feature for me. I really don't need a charger anymore, just a $1 mini USB to standard USB cable. I can charge my phone off of another computer, most TV's, my PS3, almost anything with a USB port will work.

Apple's only got the one model, it's supposed to be the Cadillac but it's really more of an Oldsmobile.

 

[This is The End]

However, the longer and not wider also makes 16:9, an extremely common video format, more supportable.

Not to get off topic, but have you seen those new 2.35:1 compatible TVs (21:9). I want one!

 

[a_unique_person]

Someone referred to thinness and screensize as Samsung innovations. That is just a continuation of what Apple has been doing with the iX line, including the iMac. Personally, they've long reached the point where I'd prefer they tried to stick in more memory or something over less space.

Just a poke at Apple insisting that they drive innovation, that others follow. They are innovative, but not to the degree they claim.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Evidence ? Where did you get this understanding from.
Did you speak with tim cook ? Did he tell you this ?
How did you draw the conclusion that 3GS users waiting to upgrade might be the main reason for apple losing market share.
You only linked to data for the last quarter - not overall market share, and not any prior data that might show any trends, such as sales dipping the quarter before the expected new phone release every year.

2nd level quotes don't appear in responses.

I read your link with 'facts and figures. It didn't do anything to support the point you were trying to make. See above about how quotes work when I hit reply.

Which smart phone manufacturer has more market share than apple ?
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_500445051d5fb55b73.jpg[/qimg]

Please elaborate. You claim apple has only 12million active devices but my post is a fail ?
ETA: I see you responded in the other thread, so we can keep that topic there ...

The first time you dishonestly snipped my post to remove the relevant 2nd part. That is quite clear to anyone that reads my first response to you in this thread.

It's as clear as all the questions you dodged that you left out of your response. (see above).

The second time you chose to not include the quote. Just because it doesn't automagically do it for you does not mean it is hard. The telling part was when you accused me of not posting "'actual facts and figures". You cant blame missing that on the forum.

Perhaps you missed the first time I said it because you were busy deleting all the parts of my post that you didn't address...
I read your link with 'facts and figures. It didn't do anything to support the point you were trying to make.

In the USA. It was quite clear. I doubt anyone thought I meant worldwide except for you.

Why do you think I thought you meant worldwide ? Iphone is the leading smartphone in the US.

Let me ask again ... Which smart phone manufacturer has more market share than apple (in the US)?
Please try not to dodge the question this time.

So what did you do? You flailed, grasped at strawmen, and moved the goalposts.

Everyone can go to that thread to see my response.

I'll have to ask you to provide evidence for the flailing, the strawmen, and the goalpost moving. Again, simply asserting all these things does not make it so.

I think the main point is, that I was being quite optimistic about Apple in this thread. Yet you had blinders on and couldn't even see it.

No, I think the main point is you asserted a bunch of nonsense and won't defend it, and simply try to handwave the objections away.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

My current phone has a mini USB, that was another selling feature for me. I really don't need a charger anymore, just a $1 mini USB to standard USB cable. I can charge my phone off of another computer, most TV's, my PS3, almost anything with a USB port will work.

Apple's only got the one model, it's supposed to be the Cadillac but it's really more of an Oldsmobile.

My current phone has a 30-pin connector, that was another selling feature for me. I really don't need a charger anymore, just a $1 30-pin connector to standard USB cable. I can charge my phone off of another computer, most TV's, my PS3, almost anything with a USB port will work.

See what I did there ? For almost a decade, the same thing was true of apple. In fact, I thought most phones had moved to micro USB. And any new phone that takes more than 500 ma really won't always charge off any old USB port.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

The 4S was labeled an incremental improvement hold over, and it had more wow with the nicer camera and Siri than the 5 does. Oh it will sell ever well, there is a pent up consumer base to feed. But I just can't get excited.

Not for this phone anyway. I can't wait for the Note 2.

Hmmm... Are you sure you aren't me?


I do wonder if the camera will be one of the better aspects of the 5's technology refresh, hard to tell from the usual marketing spin.

 

[chulbert]

What could they have put in for a 'wow' factor? A screen with better pixel density maybe instead of one 30% thinner? Already I've been asked it it will be easier to break. A projected keyboard? A different form factor that actually helped? Stereo cameras with cool integrated software? Twenty hours of battery power? Hell, I don't know. Then again, I only sell the things and am not several teams of highly trained, experienced, and paid developers.

To some degree, I think we are generally past the era of "wow factors." I really hate to bet against innovation because that's always a losing bet but, generally speaking, these devices are mature.

For example (yours), their displays are higher resolution that your eyeball; there's no where to go from there.

The 4S was labeled an incremental improvement hold over, and it had more wow with the nicer camera and Siri than the 5 does. Oh it will sell ever well, there is a pent up consumer base to feed. But I just can't get excited.

Not for this phone anyway. I can't wait for the Note 2.

I have told many people that I thought the 4S was a bigger upgrade from the 4 than the 5 is from the 4S.

This doesn't need to persuade you but it's an interesting take:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/13/the-iphone-5-event/

 

[chulbert]

There were of course dirty little design reasons why a larger screen was problematic. iOS didn't have scaling built in very well. It couldn't do different screen sizes without a lot of tweaking. This had some advantages sure, but it became a liability when people wanted versatility.

I'm a Mac and iOS developer and I can say with complete certainty that the statement, "iOS didn't have scaling built in very well," is completely, verifiably wrong.

Despite their R&D secrecy, Apple is incredibly straightforward most of the time about their values and direction. Multiple screen sizes compromise something of extreme value to Apple: user experience. They want developers to sweat the details and that's harder to do when there are 17 different screen sizes. They value one-handed operation and that becomes awkward or impossible as the device gets wider.

 

[chulbert]

Odd, everyone else has been using the old standard tech without problems. 1/8" stereo jacks have been around for decades, USB plugs of various types since 1994.

But Apple likes to have proprietary interfaces, not because theirs are any better but because they can charge the rubes more money.

I think it's pretty clear the proprietary Dock and Lightning connectors are technically superior to everything else that's out there. They may bring in a little extra spending money for Apple but it's disingenuous to characterize them as a simple money grab.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzDCDruWZ38

 

[tyr_13]

Hmmm... Are you sure you aren't me?


I do wonder if the camera will be one of the better aspects of the 5's technology refresh, hard to tell from the usual marketing spin.

I'm pretty sure I'm not you, but I haven't checked recently.

They've done a bang up job with cameras in their phones for the last three gens, so it might just be one of the better aspects. But the other makers have stepped up in that in the most recent gen too. The HTC One X specifically has a great sensor. It's hard to say, but it seems a supportable position especially if iOX6 doesn't bring the thunder.

To some degree, I think we are generally past the era of "wow factors." I really hate to bet against innovation because that's always a losing bet but, generally speaking, these devices are mature.

For example (yours), their displays are higher resolution that your eyeball; there's no where to go from there.

I read that article on cnet as well about the 'ho hum' era of smart phones and I disagree to a degree. The SIII had plenty of wow. So did the Razr and Razr Maxx. The Razr MaxxHD seems like an incremental improvement though. The Note II seems to have TONS of wow on tap, although that could just be hype in some cases.

Granting that the screens are higher resolution than the human eye (is that really true?), there are other aspects of the screen that can certainly wow. A higher contrast, better in sun performance, more color, faster response times, flexibility...there are more to displays than the pixel density/count.

Then there is augmented reality integration besides gimick apps. How about the ability for the camera to look at a printed calendar or time sheet and update the appointments list? The SIII learns your face. What about wireless charging. Apple would be the perfect company to make that big if they wanted to. Star Trek isn't mined out yet for ideas.

I have told many people that I thought the 4S was a bigger upgrade from the 4 than the 5 is from the 4S.

This doesn't need to persuade you but it's an interesting take:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/13/the-iphone-5-event/

It's a neat article, but while it has some good points, it's basically an Apple cheerleader article. Yes, Apple makes good stuff, but this comes off as one stock price drop away from apologetics. Lots of people have lots of takes on what makes Apple Apple, and why this move should now make sense, or that move was actually genius. They've been saying it for years, despite the success or failure of any of those moves.

I don't find the need to justify every move they make personally. They aren't going anywhere for a while at least. Doesn't change my disappointment in the 5 thus far, only the 5 could do that.

I'm a Mac and iOS developer and I can say with complete certainty that the statement, "iOS didn't have scaling built in very well," is completely, verifiably wrong.

Oh? I distinctly remember it in a Cnet article a year or two ago about why a smaller iPad was unlikely. Is that something redone in iOS5, or has it always been the case? I'll have a try at finding the article. It could very well be that they only meant that in comparison to Android. Or I could be completely misremembering it. That's always an option.

Despite their R&D secrecy, Apple is incredibly straightforward most of the time about their values and direction. Multiple screen sizes compromise something of extreme value to Apple: user experience.

Yes, according to their design philosophy. It's the main reason I cited, and something I disagree with them on.

They want developers to sweat the details and that's harder to do when there are 17 different screen sizes.

I doubt this would be the case if scaling were really that easy. I'm not saying that this isn't true in that Apple doesn't really believe it, but that it's another design philosophy I disagree with. Making things run for different sizes does add a layer of complication, so I do understand the reasoning, I simply disagree with it. Oh, I wasn't talking 17 different sizes, but four or five. It's entirely possible that by the end of the year we will be up to four anyway, so it seems like they are backing off it anyway.

They value one-handed operation and that becomes awkward or impossible as the device gets wider.

For some. For some it's already too wide to use one handed. For others (myself) it becomes dramatically less awkward when made wider. There are many tasks that I can't do one handed on an iPhone that I can on a SIII, or Razr. Yes, there are many that are easier on an iPhone as well. What gets me is that many times on an iPhone, I have to resort to selecting with the side of my pinky finger to get a small selection point. Again, I have to do that with Android devices as well, but less often.


_________________________________________

I forgot the disclaimer! I am an associate of Wal-Mart Stores Inc., employed as a Wireless associate, and an Electronics Associate at Sam's Club. They have not directed me to say anything I'm saying. My opinions are my own and do not represent Wal-Mart or any vendors, suppliers, or other associated companies. My opinions are not based on information supplied to me by Verizon, AT&T, Apple, Samsung or any other company, nor using sales or other confidential information from my job. My information mainly comes from experience with the devices, those observations, and a lot of reading on Cnet. Although I do read Cnet a lot at work when I'm at Wireless, so I don't know if that counts as 'information from work'.

 

[tyr_13]

Not to get off topic, but have you seen those new 2.35:1 compatible TVs (21:9). I want one!

Sold one the other day. Vizio makes some nice sets, in my opinion. Movies look great, and I'd bet even better in a darker space. I wish they didn't have semi-gloss screens though.

 

[This is The End]

I read your link with 'facts and figures. It didn't do anything to support the point you were trying to make.

That just proves that you didn't read those links. They quite clearly back up my point. Almost impossible to miss.

Why do you think I thought you meant worldwide ? Iphone is the leading smartphone in the US.

More proof that you didn't read the links. If you can combine all the iPhone versions into one, why can't we combine the Samsung phone versions into one? It's a sad trick, and its the only way you could even get close to getting your numbers to work.

Samsung phones have at least double the market share of iPhone phones.

It's not even close.

No, I think the main point is you asserted a bunch of nonsense and won't defend it, and simply try to handwave the objections away.

I'll leave that for others to decide. They can read the thread. The evidence for who is spewing nonsense is quite clear.

--------------

You build a strawman (more like grasping at strawmen there are so many). I knock them down. You immediately lie and say they weren't strawmen and on top of that make 7 more. This gets old. It took 3 cycles of that to even get you to admit I posted cites the first time.

Apple has less than 20% of the Smartphone market. They were dropping, but are expected to get a boost off of the i5. Possibly to 20%.

That was the point. The cites were in the very first post where I said it.

On top of that, it was clearly meant to be good news for Apple! I don't think anyone else in this thread saw that differently.

 

[This is The End]

For example (yours), their displays are higher resolution that your eyeball; there's no where to go from there.

It is from a certain distance away. 10 inches or something off the top of my head.

I'm near-sited. I want it to have no visible pixels with my nose on it!

So, yes, there is plenty of room for improvement on pixel density.

 

[This is The End]

Granting that the screens are higher resolution than the human eye (is that really true?)

No. See above. It's only from a minimum distance away. 10 inches, or even 1 foot or something, I don't remember. It's lame Apple propaganda that people eat up.

When it get's to "from 1 inch away" it will be more truth and less lame propaganda.

 

[This is The End]

I forgot the disclaimer! I am an associate of Wal-Mart Stores Inc., employed as a Wireless associate, and an Electronics Associate at Sam's Club.

Not to plug, but you guys have great prices!

Anyone who gets their phone or upgrade from a "real" brick&morter AT&T or Verizon store and not from the Wal-Mart phone desk is getting ripped off!

Way lower prices, even on brand new phone versions sometimes.

 

[a_unique_person]

I think it's pretty clear the proprietary Dock and Lightning connectors are technically superior to everything else that's out there. They may bring in a little extra spending money for Apple but it's disingenuous to characterize them as a simple money grab.

Lightning was developed by Intel, as a new generation USB port capable of carrying high definition video to multiple monitors on a single cable. It makes sense to do this, and I hope that, just like USB, it will be an open standard that helps advance technology for everyone, and is not dumbed down into an Apple only closed world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)

Note once again, this is not the result of Apple genius, but of the hard work being done by scientists and engineers from another company.