Moderated Will the 2012 Olympic Games in London be held?

[Dcdrac]

Got some up to date news for you PC London still here no bombs no destruction nothing went wrong.

 

[Paul]

You know where I got 1 BC?

The house of flying monkeys?

It is from the 10th paragraph of...

OK, some zero-credibility fraud made it up.

The Roman record keeping is exemplary... usual pointless rehashing snipped

Again, how is pushing jesus back 32 years in relation to Roman dating helping your cause at all?


Any news on the relevance of Roman and Visigoth Spain or the availability of the text?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Actually, Roman calendars didn't use Jesus' birth date as reference points, PC, so the time-line for the Roman governorships of Judea has no reference to the anno domini system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab_urbe_condita

The co-relation with Anno Domini happened this way:


So as you can see, the bibical time is already skewed!


No, they don't at all.
When or when not Jesus died has no importance what so ever in our calendar system, which assumes 'the year 1 AD corresponds to the Roman year DCCLIV ab urbe condita... '

Your insistence that KA said Jesus died 17th August sounds as though it is simply a misunderstanding on her listeners' part.
One which has led you to years of mistaken calculations, as Agatha has explained.
Remember that peculiar claim about KA being a reincarnation of the BVM?
With the fantastical story of the wedding of an inexistent Egyptian princess with Philip I?
KA is hardly a source on which you may base a proposal to change our calendar system.


The Spanish Era is simply takes it's starting point from the founding of the Roman administration in Hispania, nothing more. It has nothing to do with any alternative tradition regarding to Jesus' birth date.


No problem. Just post up the link to what it is you want translated, and I'm on it!
The introduction of the anno domini system simply took longer to implant in Spain as I've pointed out in earlier posts. This tardiness can also be seen in architectural tendencies in ecclesiastical buildings, with the flowering of Visigothic, Romanesque, Gothic and even Rennaissance styles reaching glorious heights in Spain long after Continental builders had moved on to the next fashion. Segovia's Cathedral is a good example of that.

20120819.2100

@pakeha, #3637

I know that the Roman calendar did not use the birth of Jesus as reference point. It used ab urbe condita or A.U.C., from the founding of the city of Rome. As you pointed out, A.D. 1 is equal to DCCLIV ab urbe condita, based on Varro’s epoch. So a certain factor was used to convert A.U.C. date to Julian or Gregorian date.

The dates in your link are not in A.U.C. anymore but based on the assumed birth of Jesus in 1 B.C.

Who do you think was talking in “Panambitan” (http://aristean.org/pahayag001.htm )?

I have corrected blue sock monkey regarding the spirit that is in Ka Apaz. She is not a reincarnation of the BVM. That spirit was taken from the heart of the BVM (http://aristean.org/pahayag002.htm - 16th paragraph). That is why Ama calls the spirit of Reneliniyindi as sister (“kapatid”). Ama was born as a human being by BVM and the spirit of Ka Apaz was taken from the heart of the BVM.

The Egyptian princess Reneliniyindi, according to Ama, was the first human being in whom the spirit first resided. Ama said she died on her wedding day to the very first (maybe Felipe I [Philip I] or some other monarch) which maybe in Jose Vives’ work.

The Aristean calendar is destined to replace the present Gregorian calendar as the official primary standard calendar of the world. When? I do not know but it will be in His time, in God’s time. It maybe next year but it will be never.

Please see http://aristean.org/wp094.htm titled “Coincidences in my life – Part 2” and about the Aristean calendar at http://aristean.org/calendaridx.htm .

Thanks a lot for your readiness to translate Spanish to English.

 

[Paul]

Who do you think was talking in “Panambitan”

Not the dead multincarnation of the heart on a non-existent person.

The Egyptian princess Reneliniyindi...

The princess for whom no record exists anywhere.

Ama said she died on her wedding day to the very first (maybe Felipe I [Philip I] or some other monarch) which maybe in Jose Vives’ work.

So this non-existent Egyptian married a Roman or a Visigoth in Iberia after about 197 BCE?

It maybe next year but it will be never.

Something we can agree on there.

Thanks a lot for your readiness to translate Spanish to English.

You keep saying that, but there's nothing to translate.

 

[pakeha]

PC, I still haven't been able to get you to see why that alternative date for Jesus' birth is a mare's nest.
KA's pronouncements have inspired you to a great deal of thought and effort, indeed.

However, I do hope you realise the Spanish Era dating is based on the Roman administrative system, nothing more.

Thanks for clearing up my confusion about the BVM re-incarnation, though
I have serious doubts that Philip I ever married an Egyptian, to be quite honest.

Again, once you post a link to what you want translated, I'm only too happy to do what I can.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

PeaceCrusader,

The only reason I'm posting this (despite promising that I was done with this thread - apologies, fellow board members) is that my willingness to help you move past this episode and assist you has resurfaced.


You're not thinking this through. You're caught up in the middle of it, so you don't see it; you've devoted so much of your life to this set of beliefs that you would grasp at any straw to preserve the basic foundations of your belief system.

There's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. It's a bit extreme, but imo people in general do go to significant lengths to preserve their belief system. They normally don't change overnight and it takes mental reconditioning and sometimes specialized training in critical thinking, data analysis, statistics, and other sciences in order to break out of a false mindset.

I know half a dozen people who behave like you, PeaceCrusader, albeit to lesser degrees and in different areas. They haven't been trained to think critically about what's going on. Let me boil this down to a yes or no question for you:

Are you willing to *consider*, for the sake of argument, that everything this lady / spirit thing has been telling you is false. Not asking you to change the way you act or think from day to day, but for the purposes of this discussion, are you willing to momentarily consider the possibility that what she's been telling you is not true.

You see, scientists get fooled all the time, mainly by themselves. I have to constantly question what I see on an NMR spectrum or in a HPLC trace. I have mental safeguards up in place. I know that I'm right most of the time, because I'm a well-trained and experienced organic chemist. But I'm not right all of the time, and I know that, so with every new compound / reaction sequence that passes through my hands, I question.

I quoted you above, saying that "there may be reasons he didn't make his prophecies happen". You could be right. You could also be wrong. Smarter people than you - or me - are wrong, every second of every day.

I see you posting here on the internet, and on other websites that you've linked, but I don't see an ounce of what I'd like to call skeptical vigilance. You've got to constantly be on your guard, because there is much more misinformation in this world than there is information. If I make a basic organic precursor chemical for literally the 100th time in my life, and everything looks the same and feels the same and smells the same and has the same solubility characteristics and I *know* this compound....I still obtain a 1H NMR spectrum.

The danger I see for you comes from a saying from my time in graduate school. "Dirt in equals dirt out". If you start along a reaction sequence and you make assumptions and just trust that you've interpreted things correctly and you keep going in the sequence without critically analyzing it, that 0.01% of cases where the reaction went wrong? That's now just a pile of dirt. If you take it onto the next chemical step (logical step, in your case), "dirt in equals dirt out". You have no hope of arriving at your destination, which is why you become crestfallen when the predicted outcome doesn't arrive.

I don't know how much more strongly I can say this. You have to start thinking critically, and questioning things. Is it possible that the Holy Spirit revealed to you a prophecy, and then changed his mind and didn't make the prophecy come true? In an universe with so many unknowns, I'll grant you that possibility. Is it also possible that the story was nonsense when it was told to you, and that's why it didn't come true? Yes, that is also possible.

You have a theory that this lady / woman / spirit is giving you accurate predictions (some of the time, I haven't followed your digression into the Devil / Satan / evil spirits sometimes telling the truth). You also have hard data: the Olympics in 2012 London happened.

Never, ever, twist data to make a theory appear to be correct. If the data is irrefutable (and the 2012 Olympics are definitely over), the theory has to change. Your theory is now that the spirit deliberately changed his mind, and have apparently settled on that as the answer, or maybe he really meant the Paralympics. That's a good start, and I commend you for it. But why did you stop there?

Why, why, why can't you see and consider the other possibilities? That the prophecies were not true, were never true, and will never be true. I know it's hard. It's gut-wrenching. But you have to move on, or your life will be completely wasted - as you mentioned, you're already old. Please change before it's too late. Please.

20120819.2220

@PiedPiper, #3630

Thanks a lot, PiedPiper, for your willingness to help.

I have a belief system. I am a non-denominational Christian, a plain follower of Jesus Christ. I believe in the Holy Bible as the basis of my being a Christian. The coincidences in my life, I believe, happened because God has been instrumental to make them happen (http://aristean.org/wp09x.htm where x is from 3 to 8). I, together with some other people, have the opportunity of talking to a spirit who we call Ama. Ama is the spirit of Jesus Christ.

You said:
Are you willing to *consider*, for the sake of argument, that everything this lady / spirit thing has been telling you is false. Not asking you to change the way you act or think from day to day, but for the purposes of this discussion, are you willing to momentarily consider the possibility that what she's been telling you is not true.

My reply:
You have to understand that Ama is different from Ka Apaz. Ama is a spirit who uses the physical body of Ka Apaz. Ka Apaz has her own spirit which gives way to the spirit of Ama (http://aristean.org/wp086.htm titled “How the Holy Spirit talks to people”). If you are asking me if “what she’s been telling you

is not true”, my answer is that she is only a human being subject to error. Ama is a spirit, a good spirit, I believe, and He is the source of the prophecies. I do not know why the prophecy that the 2012 Olympic Games will not be held (or completed) failed. FYI, there is still the threat of a war erupting from the Spratly Islands claimed by the Philippines. Just think that I heard this prophecy back in 1986, and possibly to happen at this point in time is just amazing.

If you think that there is just one individual, Ka Apaz, who changes her voice to that of Ama, then that is not my problem. It is your problem. I have been with Ka Apaz since 1983 and I know and would have detected if there is any fraud. Our sessions are even tape recorded. FYI, it took me eleven years (1983-1994) before I believed that Ama is the spirit of Jesus Christ.

You know, there are slight differences which the church emphasizes as the truth and what Ama says. I have cited some of them, such as when Jesus was 12 years old, the wedding at Cana, etc. What I do is check them first, just like the birth of Jesus (May 23) and his crucifixion and death (August 17). I heard these in 1983 but checked them out only from 1999 to 2006 if there is any ring of truth in them. Prior to these studies, I just say that spirit said that such and such. Now, I can say that what the spirit revealed are true and correct because I have proven them myself.

 

[pakeha]

About the Visigothic king list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths#Kings_of_the_Visigoths

is an excellent guide.

As you can see, there are no Visigothic kings before the 4th century and none named Philip.
I'm not entirely certain I understand why you look for a Philip amongst them. The first Philip in Spain, after all, is known to history as the husband of Juana la Loca and died 1506.

And the elusive Reneliniyindi is just that- elusive.
It seems incredible to me you would confide in such a tale.

 

[Pixel42]

You have to understand that Ama is different from Ka Apaz.

No, you have to understand that this is not true. There is ample evidence (not least the utter failure of all her prophecies) that Ka Apaz is simply a moderately gifted actress.

I have been with Ka Apaz since 1983 and I know and would have detected if there is any fraud.

Even sceptical and unbiased people can be taken in by a good acting performance, let alone someone as gullible and desperate to believe as you clearly are.

 

[Mashuna]

So, to sum up, crazy old lady tells you lies, you believe them even when they're proven false.

It's been fun, but as it's now just going round in circles and the Olympics are over it's less fun.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Prove that it exists, please.


Prove that it exists, please.


If you can't see it and can't touch it, and it doesn't show up on any of the detection equipment that humans have invented to date... How do you know it's there at all?


Um... So let Me get this straight: You're going to rely on the advice of a spirit whose prophesies have failed... to inform you about failed prophesies? I don't think that's going to be very productive at all.


How do you know there are any "true gods" at all, PC? What if all gods are fictional? What if I, Springy G, am no more than a middle-aged beer-guzzling cat lady with a clarinet and Sensible Shoes, and My 100% prophetic accuracy and ability to randomly cause or cure equipment malfunctions are completely unrelated to My purported divinity?

20120819.2350

@Astreja, #3635

A spirit is one which we cannot see or touch. But the spirit we (plural) talk to can be heard. We can record on tape our sessions with him. If you want to listen to the spirit, please select any file in http://aristean.org/audioidx.htm and http://aristean.org/mp3-files.htm . Most of them are in the Filipino language but those of exit and entry of spirits, you will understand them.

Please read my reply to blue sock monkey regarding the possibility that the prophecy will be fulfilled. Not because one is wrong, everything else is wrong. Learn to discern. Pick up what will be good for your soul and discard what you think is evil.

 

[blue sock monkey]

So twice five miles of fertile ground
With walls and towers were girdled round:

I have corrected blue sock monkey regarding the spirit that is in Ka Apaz. She is not a reincarnation of the BVM. That spirit was taken from the heart of the BVM (http://aristean.org/pahayag002.htm - 16th paragraph). That is why Ama calls the spirit of Reneliniyindi as sister (“kapatid”). Ama was born as a human being by BVM and the spirit of Ka Apaz was taken from the heart of the BVM.

You contend that the alleged spirit who speaks through Ka Apaz emerged from the heart of the Blessed Virgin Mary. I, on the other hand, am convinced that Ka Apaz pulls this schtick out of some other body part altogether--one from her own nether regions.

Blue Sock Monkey has not stopped laughing yet.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

20120819.2340

Agatha, you say that the crucifixion of Jesus happened during Passover in March/April. I say that the spirit is correct in stating that Passover during that time was in August.

You know the story of the Last Supper. Jesus and His apostles ate the Passover meal. Then they went to the mount of Olives where He was arrested. Following them was a young man, described in Mark 14:50-52. What was the young man wearing?

 

[devnull]

Pick up what will be good for your soul and discard what you think is evil.

What do I do with the just plain retarded?

 

[dafydd]

20120819.2340

Agatha, you say that the crucifixion of Jesus happened during Passover in March/April. I say that the spirit is correct in stating that Passover during that time was in August.

You know the story of the Last Supper. Jesus and His apostles ate the Passover meal. Then they went to the mount of Olives where He was arrested. Following them was a young man, described in Mark 14:50-52. What was the young man wearing?

A diving suit and a feather boa.

 

[Mojo]

You have to understand that Ama is different from Ka Apaz. Ama is a spirit who uses the physical body of Ka Apaz. Ka Apaz has her own spirit which gives way to the spirit of Ama (http://aristean.org/wp086.htm titled “How the Holy Spirit talks to people”). If you are asking me if “what she’s been telling you

is not true”, my answer is that she is only a human being subject to error. Ama is a spirit, a good spirit, I believe, and He is the source of the prophecies.

You claim that the prophcy came not from the "human being subject to error", but from this "good spirit". How do you reconcile that with the obvious falseness of the prophecy?

I do not know why the prophecy that the 2012 Olympic Games will not be held (or completed) failed.

I do, and it is to do with your misidentification of the source of the prophecy.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

So twice five miles of fertile ground
With walls and towers were girdled round:


You contend that the alleged spirit who speaks through Ka Apaz emerged from the heart of the Blessed Virgin Mary. I, on the other hand, am convinced that Ka Apaz pulls this schtick out of some other body part altogether--one from her own nether regions.

Blue Sock Monkey has not stopped laughing yet.

20120820.0040

@blue sock monkey, #3651

No, blue sock monkey. There is the spirit of Ama. There is another spirit and that is the spirit now in Ka Apaz who resided in Reneliniyindi after being brought down from Heaven. This is what Ama told us (plural). I still have to check its veracity.

This is what Ama related to us and as I understand it, though some are not in the Holy Bible: the Blessed Virgin Mary (BVM) was Gumamela Celis in Heaven. To have something to occupy her, from the blood vessel of her heart (“ugat ng puso ni Maria”), a spirit was pulled out. The BVM was eventually brought down from Heaven and lived among mankind. She gave birth to Jesus, so she became His mother. Jesus died and ascended to Heaven. At age 72, the BVM died and went to Heaven. A little later, the spirit that was pulled out from the blood vessel of the heart of Gumamela Celis was brought down to Earth and resided in Reneliniyindi. When Reneliniyindi died, the spirit transferred to another body, and so on. Now, that spirit is residing in Ka Apaz. The spirit in Ka Apaz is different from that of Ama.

In the Holy Bible, Luke 17:34-36 (also in Matthew 24:40-41) states: “I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”

This is the explanation to us of Ama: The man taken to Heaven was Jesus Christ. The man left is the Holy Spirit. The woman taken to Heaven was the BVM. The woman left is that of Reneliniyindi.

 

[Agatha]

'Cause tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999

20120819.2340

Agatha, you say that the crucifixion of Jesus happened during Passover in March/April. I say that the spirit is correct in stating that Passover during that time was in August.

You know the story of the Last Supper. Jesus and His apostles ate the Passover meal. Then they went to the mount of Olives where He was arrested. Following them was a young man, described in Mark 14:50-52. What was the young man wearing?

A linen cloth, as you well know. Why? Is it going to be your next contention that spring, where the temperature is generally in the mid 20s, would be too cold to be wearing linen cloths and nothing else? What do you think most people were wearing 2000 years ago in the Middle East; three piece tweed suits?

Wriggle and squirm as much as you like with random bible verses, you will not show that Passover would ever be in the late summer for the very simple reason that is always in spring. I've provided you with wiki links as evidence for now, but there are plenty of books on Jewish history and the development of their calendar if you are sufficiently interested.

 

[blue sock monkey]

Put another nickel in
In the nickelodeon
All I want is having you
And music music music

The Egyptian princess Reneliniyindi, according to Ama, was the first human being in whom the spirit first resided. Ama said she died on her wedding day to the very first (maybe Felipe I [Philip I] or some other monarch) which maybe in Jose Vives’ work.

With grave displeasure, I see that you are once again attempting to lead this thread over the river and through the woods into fantastical realms of genealogy which have nothing whatever to do with your prophecy. I am going to suffer through it this one last time, because I have a pertinent discovery to announce.

Hold onto your Barcalounger, PeaceCrusader, because you are not going to like it.

No doubt you recall telling us that Her Imperial Highness Reneliniyindi was the fortunate offspring of Legum--a hitherto unknown "King" of Egypt--and Queen Agleloma. There is absolutely, unequivocally no evidence that any of these three royalties ever existed.

Here is the exciting part: I have found Angleloma!

And it is not a person at all. Angleloma is merely the name of an obscure hill in Bataan province. Why, yes--the selfsame Bataan province where that vile chiseling old hag Ka Apaz resides.

Further, please consider this: When put to the test of manufacturing a name for non-existent Reneyinilindi's non-existent husband, what does the elderly wretch come up with? Merely Philip, just like in--oh my! the Philippines, where the old wretch in question plies her evil trade.

I have no doubt that, given a really good map of Bataan province (Google and my patience have thus far shown themselves unequal to the task), we could find Legum--if indeed he is not merely named after the fruits of the family Fabaceae, for instance the peanut--and Reneyinilindipindibindiforindysquindi herself.

Now, I do think--and this is just me--that if a con artist is going to invent families, royal or not, the very least said con artist can do is to show some creativity in her work. I am very disappointed in Ka Apaz.

Don't you feel just a wee bit silly for propagating these lies? Pray let us have no more of these pseudo-Egyptian derails.

 

[TjW]

Now, I do think--and this is just me--that if a con artist is going to invent families, royal or not, the very least said con artist can do is to show some creativity in her work. I am very disappointed in Ka Apaz.

Be realistic. If they wanted to put effort into work, they wouldn't be con artists.

 

[blue sock monkey]

Five miles meandering with a mazy motion
Through wood and dale the sacred river ran,
Then reached the caverns measureless to man,
And sank in tumult to a lifeless ocean

Be realistic. If they wanted to put effort into work, they wouldn't be con artists.

Perhaps I am unfair. After all, lazy Oscar Wilde used to cheat in exactly the same way, assigning his characters names picked from a handy map. That charmer Lord Henry Wotton, for example, received his surname from a Gloucestershire town called Wotton-under-Edge--which sounds as if it should be well-equipped with nursing homes for the emotionally frazzled. I might retire there.

ETA: The word "loma" in Agleloma is simply Spanish for hillock or low ridge.