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Indian astrology Birth Chart system ?

I'll repeat the post that you ignored


I remember seeing a documentary on the BBC about astrology. There was an America high school teacher who was appalled to find that a large percentage of his class believed in astrology. He asked them all to write down their date and time of birth. Then he told them that he had given this information to an astrologer, who had made charts for them. He distributed the charts, told his pupils not to let the person next to them see the chart. They read them, and were all amazed. ''Yeah, this me!'' ''I am sensitive'' 'Wow, it's like he knows me'' and other such comments. The chart was the usual flattering guff. The denouement came when the teacher revealed that they all got the same chart which was a genuine chart for Ted Bundy. It was an object lesson in combating woo.
 
hopkinsworld said:
Try this guy

http://www.brentbecvar.com/
http://www.chopra.com/jyotish
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Are you serious?

''Jyotish, in Sanskrit translated as “Science of Light,” is a profound and mathematically sophisticated form of astrology that originated in the ancient Vedic tradition of India. It describes how planetary patterns at the time of our birth give valuable clues in helping us understand our life’s journey. Through careful analysis of these cosmic influences, Jyotish Astrology can help us realistically evaluate our strengths and weaknesses in order to optimize our full potential.

By forecasting the changing trends and periods of our lives, Jyotish Astrology can enable us to make more evolutionary choices. It can help provide participants with valuable information in all areas of their lives and can offer practical remedial measures to help alleviate areas of difficulty, giving the confidence to manifest our true destiny and create success, happiness and harmony on all levels.

Birth charts are calculated and fully discussed by Vedic Counseling Program Director, Brent BecVar, M.S. Mr. BecVar has practiced astrology and counseling over the past 30 years, and has studied with respected teachers in this country and in India. He has worked directly with Dr. Deepak Chopra and the Chopra Center for Well Being as an administrator, teacher and therapist for over 20 years, is trained as a psychotherapist, certified yoga/ meditation instructor, Ayurvedic educator and a longstanding member of the American Council of Vedic Astrologers.

Jyotish consultations last one and a half hours and may be conducted in person but are typically given by telephone. All sessions are recorded for participants and remain completely confidential.''

I missed the bit about the nature and mechanism of this mysterious influence. Brent BecVa is laughing all the way to the bank.

''$275 per consultation (1.5 hour session)''

I wish I could make money by talking to mugs on the phone, but I have scruples.
 
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dafydd said:
I'll repeat the post that you ignored


I remember seeing a documentary on the BBC about astrology. There was an America high school teacher who was appalled to find that a large percentage of his class believed in astrology. He asked them all to write down their date and time of birth. Then he told them that he had given this information to an astrologer, who had made charts for them. He distributed the charts, told his pupils not to let the person next to them see the chart. They read them, and were all amazed. ''Yeah, this me!'' ''I am sensitive'' 'Wow, it's like he knows me'' and other such comments. The chart was the usual flattering guff. The denouement came when the teacher revealed that they all got the same chart which was a genuine chart for Ted Bundy. It was an object lesson in combating woo.
Click to expand...

The person in that BBC documentary was woo and was making a straw man fallacy. He should have used to make prediction from a birth chart using the professional software and not the general stuff you read on newspapers. Get an expert professional astrologer who wears jeans and a shirt and who does not sit under a tree and prays to a diety. Enter their birth time and place of birth and read the specific details about the person and it will match. And btw the efficacy of reading such statements depends also on strength of planets, their dignities, the strength of house, overall birth chart and which current planet period is going on.
 
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hopkinsworld said:
The person in that BBC documentary was woo and was making a straw man fallacy. He should have used to make prediction from a birth chart using the professional software and not the general stuff you read on newspapers. Get an expert professional astrologer who wears jeans and a shirt and who does not sit under a tree and prays to a diety. Enter their birth time and place of birth and read the specific details about the person and it will match. And btw the efficacy of reading such statements depends also on strength of planets, their dignities, the strength of house, overall birth chart and which current planet period is going on.
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The Ted Bundy's chart was made by a ''professional'' astrologer, that was the point. The students all thought that it fitted them perfectly. That is the point. All such charts could apply to anybody. Look up the meaning of ''strawman''. There is no way that astrology can work, planets in ''conjunction'' with random groups of stars have no influence on us. Or if they do, tell me how it works.
 
What do you study and what exams do you have to pass to be a professional astrologer?
 
Stomatopoda said:
This reply has absolutely nothing to do with the question you were asked. Care to actually answer that question?
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He did say that he has no idea what this influence from the planets and stars actually is. That is not surprising, given that it doesn't exist.
 
We've been through this astrology tosh many times with believers. I can't be bothered anymore.
 
hopkinsworld said:
The person in that BBC documentary was woo and was making a straw man fallacy.
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The Forer Effect was first demonstrated in the 1940s, the experiment has been repeated many times with the same result. Gauquelin repeated it using the chart of a mass murderer - specifically prepared by a professional astrologer who was given the murderer's exact date, time and place of birth, though not told whose they were - and the dozens of people who were given that chart and told it was their personal chart again gave it an average score of about 4.3 out of 5 for accuracy.

That's why the Forer Effect has to be eliminated before the actual accuracy of an astrological chart can be measured. Blind tests like the one I described for you earlier in the thread do that, and no astrologer has ever produced charts that could be correctly identified by their subjects more often than would be expected by chance in such a test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect
 
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Thanks for that information about the Forer Effect.
I still remember seeing that famous Derren Brown video.
 
Pixel42 said:
The Forer Effect was first demonstrated in the 1940s, the experiment has been repeated many times with the same result. Gauquelin repeated it using the chart of a mass murderer - specifically prepared by a professional astrologer who was given the murderer's exact date, time and place of birth, though not told whose they were - and the dozens of people who were given that chart and told it was their personal chart again gave it an average score of about 4.3 out of 5 for accuracy.

That's why the Forer Effect has to be eliminated before the actual accuracy of an astrological chart can be measured. Blind tests like the one I described for you earlier in the thread do that, and no astrologer has ever produced charts that could be correctly identified by their subjects more often than would be expected by chance in such a test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect
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Again, take heed, hopkinswood. The Forer effect is not a strawman.
 
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hopkinsworld said:
...Get an expert professional astrologer who wears jeans and a shirt and who does not sit under a tree and prays to a diety. Enter their birth time and place of birth and read the specific details about the person and it will match. And btw the efficacy of reading such statements depends also on strength of planets, their dignities, the strength of house, overall birth chart and which current planet period is going on.
Click to expand...

You really think there is merit in this system.
In my opinion, all the more reason subject it to the test that's been proposed.
 
Pixel42 said:
The Forer Effect was first demonstrated in the 1940s, the experiment has been repeated many times with the same result. Gauquelin repeated it using the chart of a mass murderer - specifically prepared by a professional astrologer who was given the murderer's exact date, time and place of birth, though not told whose they were - and the dozens of people who were given that chart and told it was their personal chart again gave it an average score of about 4.3 out of 5 for accuracy.

That's why the Forer Effect has to be eliminated before the actual accuracy of an astrological chart can be measured. Blind tests like the one I described for you earlier in the thread do that, and no astrologer has ever produced charts that could be correctly identified by their subjects more often than would be expected by chance in such a test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forer_effect
Click to expand...


dafydd said:
Again, take heed, hopkinswood. The Forer effect is not a strawman.
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Did both of you read the specific claims I posted above about abuse and relationship with dad ? Again, take heed.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8532017&postcount=51
 
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hopkinsworld said:
Did both of you read the specific claims I posted above about abuse and relationship with dad ? Again, take heed.
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Claims about a vague statement in a chart? That chart could apply to me, my relationship with my dad was not always beer and skittles. You are easily fooled, methinks. How much did you pay this guy to tell you about things that happened in the past? I can recall the past for nothing.
 
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hopkinsworld said:
Did you read the specific claims I posted above about abuse and relationship with dad ?
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Everybody who reads a chart they believe is theirs finds something that resonates with them. The dozens of people who read that mass murderer's chart did; probably no two people picked out the same combination of hits, but nearly all found enough to score it 4 or 5 out of 5 for accuracy.

This is due to well known and well understood cognitive biases. Eliminate those biases, and the perceived accuracy is shown to be an illusion. I know this is difficult to believe, but the evidence is all there if you bother to look at it. Or do the simple blind test I described for yourself; if you're correct about the actual accuracy of the kind of astrological chart you're so enamoured with that test will prove it, and you'll be well on your way to winning the JREF million dollars.
 
hopkinsworld said:
The chart is always stays the same no matter which astrologer you consult, given you provide correct time of birth and place of birth. If the position of planets change then the it is some different astrology system.There are different method to product a chart, some astrologers follow different ones. American astrology system might produce different chart, Indian system might produce different.
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The highlighted sentences are contradictory.
 
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