Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[marplots]

The difference is that calculus is something you demonstrate to other people. Past lives and other "epiphanies" are not. So as far as the rest of the universe is concerned, you are still just imagining things.

That's why it's personal. But the notion is that you were imagining things before and now, less so.

 

[Chris L]

That's why it's personal. But the notion is that you were imagining things before and now, less so.

An idea that is completely unprovable, therefore it is nonsense.

 

[marplots]

So by learning Calculus, you become more sane?

Perhaps, but that's stretching the analogy a bit. Epiphany can be part of realizing some root concept in calculus as well as something about yourself and your relationship to the world. I suppose I might have a calculus-based delusion and then come to a place where I was 'clear', but far more likely in a broader, worldview sense.

I cannot give a cite, but I have read in these forums of people who misused or misunderstood math, usually in the service of some other outrageous concept. I can accept that they might suffer a "math delusion" and it could be part of their insanity. Why not? A false description of reality, even if supported by mathematics, would still count as a delusion and could be treated.

Perhaps if Scientology were recast as a guided journey of self-discovery, it would be more palatable.

 

[Chris L]

Perhaps if Scientology were recast as a guided journey of self-discovery, it would be more palatable.

Since there is no reason to believe that the "guide" in this case has any better idea of where to go than the person doing the self-discovering, said guide is unnecessary.

 

[Twiler]

And you don't believe women are skeptical when it comes to men?
You don't think that the average woman acts like a skeptic when considering the merits of a young man?
A skeptical woman is not the norm?

Don't get me wrong. Most women like me and I instantly like those that don't evaluate and invalidate. I like some other women, I just don't deliberately try to get to know them. Anyway, I'm happily married and intend to stay that way.

Did it ever occur to you that the scientologists may simply have told you what you wanted to hear so that you'd feel well-disposed towards them, while the 'skeptical and insulting' women were being honest with you about your shortcomings?

 

[marplots]

Marplots said: That's why it's personal. But the notion is that you were imagining things before and now, less so.

An idea that is completely unprovable, therefore it is nonsense.

You can prove the idea to yourself if you've ever had the experience of recasting something that happened to you, perhaps long ago, with new information that allows you to see things differently. Any examples I might give would be particular to me, but I'll try one anyhow.

I remember seeing some old footage of my siblings and I opening Christmas presents. One present was a larger plastic fire truck. I recalled that one of my sisters and I had fought over whose toy it was and this continued for some years, on and off. It was the source of much animosity -- each of us claiming it as their own at various times and each of us remembering getting it for Christmas.

In the film, another sister was opening the present while the soon to be combative sister and I watched eagerly.

The point is that this information had been forgotten. Neither of us got the truck as a present. We were both in error. It caused a great deal of stress and bad feelings between us, some of which lived on into adulthood.

Such a simple thing. But it was meaningful to me to find out.

 

[InkBlotTest]

Hubbard clicked on an important thing that's embodied in the new-speak. The purpose is to create words that don't come with the connections familiar words have. It's similar to how each scientific discipline creates its own terms as a kind of shorthand and with the desired specificity. I think physics runs into problems because it so often reuses terms that have everyday meanings, so that "force", "energy" and others are the cause of some miscommunication.

The price paid is that adherents run the risk of triggering a feeling of "woo gibberish" when speaking to those outside the discipline. "Tone scale" is as confusing as "Hilbert space" to someone who doesn't have the conceptual background. It's also why Scientologists so often avoid discussing things with non-Scientologists -- two different languages.

Hmmmm ...... I get what your you’re saying, but in reality all you’re doing is using a collection of scientific sounding phrases to make your belief sound modern and ..... well, scientific. You are then explaining away your use of this disconnected verbiage by claiming that it is somehow a “new speak” that makes things clearer to those that are in the know.

A prime example is your use of the word “adherents” when “believer” is a perfectly good word that explains what you mean.

This is one of the many ways CoS gets people to join. They use very technical sounding phrases to lure people into spending money on telling their inner most secrets to unqualified nosey parkers (or auditors as they like to call them) so the information can be used against them if they decide to leave the organisation.

 

[sadhatter]

Holy hell reading through all of Justinian's responses, am I ever glad that I ran away from the Church like a cheetah when I did.

You spit out these obviously pre-fabricated lines, all of which have undertones of Hubbard's "philosophy." I'm not sure I've seen one unique thought that was your own.

Again man, if it works for you, great (I guess). I'm just extremely happy I didn't walk down that road.

Justinian, please read this user's post over and over again. It couldn't be more accurate.

Just your tone shows how indoctrinated you are with the scientology B.S. , it comes off as very used car salesman meets kid's show villain, and to any person not involved in the church, it is downright offputting.

To put it in another way, you come off as an overly scripted call center employee, it doesn't seem like one is having a conversation with you, but rather that one is receiving canned responses you are told to give when asked certain questions.

This is not intended as insulting, but enlightening. When you can no longer relate, or communicate with people outside your culture, that culture has alienated you, and severely hampered your social skills, regardless of how much they tell you they have actually improved them.

 

[Justinian2]

Did it ever occur to you that the scientologists may simply have told you what you wanted to hear so that you'd feel well-disposed towards them, while the 'skeptical and insulting' women were being honest with you about your shortcomings?

No for several reasons. Ever seen a movie of yourself when you were young? I looked like Dick Clark/Harrison Ford.

It's true, however, that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. But if they didn't see beauty in me, game over. I walked away. Screw them!

As I got older, more and more women were attracted to me. From my own experience, 35-55 is the age that women are most attracted to. Perhaps they see $$ and security.

 

[Justinian2]

Did it ever occur to you that the scientologists may simply have told you what you wanted to hear so that you'd feel well-disposed towards them, while the 'skeptical and insulting' women were being honest with you about your shortcomings?

I was sitting in the aisle seat of a plane. Next to be was a cute little 12 year old girl. Next to me in the center seat was a handsome 28 year old man. When I stood up to get my suitcase, that little 12 year old stared at the 28 year man for two straight minutes before he finally stared back. When I caught him staring back at her, he turned away somewhat embarrassed.

My point is what we already know. Girls like older men. The opposite is true too.

Me? I'm an observer. I like to observe life around me.

 

[Justinian2]

Justinian, please read this user's post over and over again. It couldn't be more accurate.

Just your tone shows how indoctrinated you are with the scientology B.S. , it comes off as very used car salesman meets kid's show villain, and to any person not involved in the church, it is downright offputting.

To put it in another way, you come off as an overly scripted call center employee, it doesn't seem like one is having a conversation with you, but rather that one is receiving canned responses you are told to give when asked certain questions.

This is not intended as insulting, but enlightening. When you can no longer relate, or communicate with people outside your culture, that culture has alienated you, and severely hampered your social skills, regardless of how much they tell you they have actually improved them.

I wouldn't give a penny for your thoughts much let you audit me or teach me anything. What do you think you could teach me?

 

[InkBlotTest]

No for several reasons. Ever seen a movie of yourself when you were young? I looked like Dick Clark/Harrison Ford.

It's true, however, that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. But if they didn't see beauty in me, game over. I walked away. Screw them!

As I got older, more and more women were attracted to me. From my own experience, 35-55 is the age that women are most attracted to. Perhaps they see $$ and security.

Alternatively, this is a prime example of how you become more secure in yourself as you get older. Teenagers worry about looks and what others think of them but as people get older they get more comfortable in their own skin and can to be attracted to people for personality rather than looks. You seem to have followed the same pattern as almost everyone else, but you have spent thousands to get to the same point as those not part of CoS.

Your comment about money and security shows you still have a little way to go.


IBT

 

[AdMan]

My point is what we already know. Girls like older men. The opposite is true too.

Huh? Men like 12-year-old girls?

 

[InkBlotTest]

Huh? Men like 12-year-old girls?

I think someone needs a quick trip to the auditor!

 

[Cleon]

So by learning Calculus, you become more sane?

That lacks credibility with anyone who's sat through differential equations.

 

[Justinian2]

Huh? Men like 12-year-old girls?

I discussed southern grandmothers with relatives recently. One got married at 14 and another got married at 13. It was typical of the era. You were an old maid at 16.

If you wanted 12 children, you had to get an early start.

Plus, by thirty, you probably didn't have any teeth and looked like a hag.

 

[marplots]

... (snipped some)...
This is one of the many ways CoS gets people to join. They use very technical sounding phrases to lure people into spending money on telling their inner most secrets to unqualified nosey parkers (or auditors as they like to call them) so the information can be used against them if they decide to leave the organisation.

Would this explanation also work for Freezone? If not, what else is going on?

 

[tsig]

No for several reasons. Ever seen a movie of yourself when you were young? I looked like Dick Clark/Harrison Ford.

It's true, however, that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. But if they didn't see beauty in me, game over. I walked away. Screw them!

As I got older, more and more women were attracted to me. From my own experience, 35-55 is the age that women are most attracted to. Perhaps they see $$ and security.

I was sitting in the aisle seat of a plane. Next to be was a cute little 12 year old girl. Next to me in the center seat was a handsome 28 year old man. When I stood up to get my suitcase, that little 12 year old stared at the 28 year man for two straight minutes before he finally stared back. When I caught him staring back at her, he turned away somewhat embarrassed.

My point is what we already know. Girls like older men. The opposite is true too.

Me? I'm an observer. I like to observe life around me.

I discussed southern grandmothers with relatives recently. One got married at 14 and another got married at 13. It was typical of the era. You were an old maid at 16.

If you wanted 12 children, you had to get an early start.

Plus, by thirty, you probably didn't have any teeth and looked like a hag.

Hummm...


Someone needs another session with the ohm* meter.


*the real term for e-meter.

 

[Justinian2]

Hummm...


Someone needs another session with the ohm* meter.


*the real term for e-meter.

Wheatstone bridge is the actual term.

Perhaps those that are shocked at how young girls used to get married, I suggest that counseling or auditing would help.

A 1576 law making it a felony to "unlawfully and carnally know and abuse any woman child under the age of 10 years" was generally interpreted as creating more severe punishments when girls were under 10 years old while retaining the lesser punishment for acts with 10- and 11-year-old girls. Jurist Sir Matthew Hale argued that the age of consent applied to 10- and 11-year-old girls, but most of England's North American colonies adopted the younger age. A small group of Italian and German states that introduced an age of consent in the 16th century also employed 12 years.

 

[Chris L]

You can prove the idea to yourself if you've ever had the experience of recasting something that happened to you, perhaps long ago, with new information that allows you to see things differently. Any examples I might give would be particular to me, but I'll try one anyhow.

I remember seeing some old footage of my siblings and I opening Christmas presents. One present was a larger plastic fire truck. I recalled that one of my sisters and I had fought over whose toy it was and this continued for some years, on and off. It was the source of much animosity -- each of us claiming it as their own at various times and each of us remembering getting it for Christmas.

In the film, another sister was opening the present while the soon to be combative sister and I watched eagerly.

The point is that this information had been forgotten. Neither of us got the truck as a present. We were both in error. It caused a great deal of stress and bad feelings between us, some of which lived on into adulthood.

Such a simple thing. But it was meaningful to me to find out.

I'm glad seeing actual evidence of what happened helped you out. What I don't see is where an "auditor" would have been useful in that situation, as he was not there that Christmas.