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General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Straw Mans uncle also seems to be a Jack of all trades. One minute he is an Infantryman riding around in a Bren Carrier and the next he has donned a Royal Engineers beret and is using heavy plant to bulldoze corpses into a mass grave.

I think Irene Zisblatt would call this story chutzpah for the cause.

Please provide quotes from SM's accounts supporting those claims. Specifically, 1. that he was a Royal Engineer,
2. that he was an Infantryman
3. that he rode around in a Bren carrier.

In fact, SM didn't even say that his uncle was driving the bulldozer in question, just that he was on it, and helped move bodies.

Good luck!

Where did I say it does?

Unreal.

So, about those brave guards who stayed behind and committed war crimes and the time-travelling Geneva convention...
 
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Originally Posted by Charles Traynor View Post






Where does it say he trusts her statement?

You gotta love the in your face audacity of using the 6 million number.

Mr Traynor alleges that she used that number. He hasn't sourced that statement in any way. So waffling about her audacity is a bit premature.
And despite your attempt to redefine his statement, his actual post does imply horror about the number which to me would suggest he does believe her. Or would like us to believe her because that would imply she has immense influence.
 
Chutzpah at its best. I noticed the 6M figure made Nick a little uncomfortable.

:D

Actually no, it's quite clearly an impossible number. There are rock bands with platinum albums that would be over the moon to have played to 6 million people.

I was just mildly curious as to how many hundreds of thousands of people a year Zisblatt would have to claim to have spoken to in order to reach such a figure.
 
Mr Traynor alleges that she used that number. He hasn't sourced that statement in any way. So waffling about her audacity is a bit premature.
And despite your attempt to redefine his statement, his actual post does imply horror about the number which to me would suggest he does believe her. Or would like us to believe her because that would imply she has immense influence.

The closest thing I could find was this article from May/June of last year:

Fifty years after being sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp and losing her entire family to the gas chambers, Zisblatt, who is now in her 80s, has shared her story with more than six million people, including students at Ohio State.

[...]

According to a historian Zisblatt spoke with, she has talked to more than six million people, one representing every soul taken from the Holocaust.

Note how Charles Traynor has apparently changed it from "six million people" to six million children".
 
The closest thing I could find was this article from May/June of last year:

Note how Charles Traynor has apparently changed it from "six million people" to six million children".

That story, from the Ohio State University student paper, is pretty much the first conventional media story you come across when searching for irene zisblatt six million.

Interestingly 'Irene Zisblatt' only seems to have 12,700 hits on Google which is hardly a lot. 'Zisblatt' alone is 26,700 hits.

More interesting trivia, the box office gross of the Spielberg film The Last Days was a mere $419,762 before presumably it was pulled from theatre circulation. Which even in 1999 would mean significantly fewer than 100,000 people ever saw it in the cinema.

As mentioned before, Zisblatt's book has never been published outside the US.
 
Wrong! Official exterminationist doctrine is to not debate the holocaust with revisionists. Debs Lipstadt understands the hoax is faith based rather than fact based and it is a slippery slope to get involved with those who would scrutinize the mythology.

Deborah E Lipstadt:

Do you think you will support your accusation anytime soon, Chuck ?
 
Firstly, my invite was for you to explain why all the memoirs listed were wrong. Cherrypicking one title out of 153 clearly doesn't meet that standard.

Secondly, quoting from a publisher's blurb doesn't demonstrate that a memoir is wrong. To do that, you would actually have to read the thing, and grasp the historical context, and explain to us what genuinely violates the historical record in Buergenthal's account.

That would require knowing things like the Nazis lowered what they considered to be working age in 1944, because of the labour shortage, allowing a small number of 10+ year olds to pretend to be older and thus slip through the system. In 1944, the Nazis explicitly stated the working age in occupied Belorussia to be 10. In the camps, it went down to 12-14 in the same year.

It would also require knowing that in some ghettos, the Nazis tolerated the survival of small groups of children for a variety of reasons depending on the locality, sometimes because the children were relatively well hidden, sometimes because the local Nazis were less bloodthirsty than others, sometimes because a compromise was made to spare family members of skilled workers but not unskilled workers, and so on.

Finally, it would help if you could explain to us the logic of your apparent claim where the survival of one person refutes the death of another. I've never had a coherent explanation from a denier why that follows logically at all.

As near as I can understand it the argument goes like this "If there were any survivors then the camps weren't extermination camps, so the existence of the survivors proves the non existence of the camps".

:eye-poppi
 
Mr traynor professor in what fantasy wolrd of your creation no doubt, does professor Lipstadt state the holocaust is a matter of faith and not fact?
 
Holocaust lies never cease to amaze. If a guard was pretending to be a prisoner wouldn't the real prisoners give their liberators a wink and an over there head movement?

Clayton, have you not yet realised that just saying you don't believe something doesn't make it false ?

I don't believe you really exist. There. Did that magically make you dissapear ?
 
Please provide quotes from SM's accounts supporting those claims. Specifically, 1. that he was a Royal Engineer,
2. that he was an Infantryman
3. that he rode around in a Bren carrier.


Here you go:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8474069&postcount=4726

"and was on a Bren carrier. If it has to be broken down to company/platoon,"

Company and platoon are Infantry sub units. Royal Engineers drive bulldozers.



In fact, SM didn't even say that his uncle was driving the bulldozer in question, just that he was on it, and helped move bodies.


Are you for real? How many seats did the bulldozers used by the British at Belsen have?
 
As near as I can understand it the argument goes like this "If there were any survivors then the camps weren't extermination camps, so the existence of the survivors proves the non existence of the camps".

:eye-poppi


It actually proves there was no fiendish plan to exterminate anybody.
 
Are you for real? How many seats did the bulldozers used by the British at Belsen have?

You are aware that soldiers rode (and still ride) on the outside of tanks, bulldozers, and other tracked vehicles all the time, right?

It actually proves there was no fiendish plan to exterminate anybody.

So, either the Nazis killed everyone, or they killed no one?
 
Zisblatt apparently kept quiet about her WWII experiences for 50 years. Spielberg’s The Last Days was released in1998, so it is reasonably safe to assume she began her despicable occupation of brainwashing innocent schoolchildren sometime after that date.

Sounds like she should be taken and gassed for the good of society, don't you agree?
 
There are survivors so there was no "fiendish" plan.

No wonder denial is in such a parlous state.
 
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