Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[WildCat]

I would make that logical assumption, given the number of calls to the SPD reporting suspicious activity within the neighborhood.

How is that a logical assumption?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Serino pressured to file charges. Much more at the Treehouse.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/12/2892510/more-evidence-released-in-zimmerman.html

Interesting. There might be a real CT over at the SPD

On the FBI front - after interviewing (literally) dozens of people, it turns out GZ appears to be a mild mannered nice guy, who doesn't drink or do drugs, and is far from a racist.

Without having to dig back through the old thread and see who said he was clearly a racist based on his myspace page, etc., and all those who have been either implying or calling him a racist based on his past phone calls, and the 'fact' that he profiled TM because he was black ....

Do any of you find the inability to find evidence of GZ racist tendencies compelling ?

Would anyone like to change thier view, or does this just mean GZ is a secret racist ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I would make that logical assumption, given the number of calls to the SPD reporting suspicious activity within the neighborhood.

How is that a logical assumption?

Based on that logic, it seems that neighborhood had quite a few patrollers...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html

The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.

 

[Cylinder]

Interesting. There might be a real CT over at the SPD

...and the sole white officer putting pressure on Serino was investigated in the Sherman Ware incident.

Serino fingers them as the leakers.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

"There will be no official finding" means "we'll wait and see if a jury acquits him, and if it does and there is enough outrage, than we'll ignore the constitution and try him a second time on cooked civil rights charges" .

Prescient

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...-Case-Documents-to-Be-Released-162190305.html

The Department of Justice's investigation — to determine whether the shooting was a hate crime — is still open. Justice Department officials told NBC News they have no plans to pursue charges while the state's murder case against Zimmerman is proceeding.

 

[triforcharity]

Based on that logic, it seems that neighborhood had quite a few patrollers...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html

The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.

Does it give a breakdown of how many times each person called?

 

[Unabogie]

Interesting. There might be a real CT over at the SPD

On the FBI front - after interviewing (literally) dozens of people, it turns out GZ appears to be a mild mannered nice guy, who doesn't drink or do drugs, and is far from a racist.

Without having to dig back through the old thread and see who said he was clearly a racist based on his myspace page, etc., and all those who have been either implying or calling him a racist based on his past phone calls, and the 'fact' that he profiled TM because he was black ....

Do any of you find the inability to find evidence of GZ racist tendencies compelling ?

Would anyone like to change thier view, or does this just mean GZ is a secret racist ?

Change my view on what, his guilt?

Has anyone made the claim that we needed to PROVE he is racist or else we must acquit him?

Or that he's racist? Because on that same mySpace page he bragged about how his friends would never rat him out to the cops. So is he just a big liar, and his friends would actually rat him out? Or do you deny that he said anything racist on that page? Do you deny that he kept calling the cops on black people?

I'm not sure what you expect to find. I know people who are racist and I bet you that if you asked their friends, they would say they weren't.

But this is what George wrote:

“I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book,” the 2005 Myspace page said. “Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”

That isn't racist to you?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Does it give a breakdown of how many times each person called?

No , it doesn't. Not a clue how they compiled the numbers. I think it demonstrates it was a neighborhood in need of a watch program, or those numbers are wrong. GZ wasn't the only person calling things in.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Change my view on what, his guilt?

No, your view on him being a racist.

Without having to dig back through the old thread and see who said he was clearly a racist based on his myspace page, etc., and all those who have been either implying or calling him a racist based on his past phone calls, and the 'fact' that he profiled TM because he was black ....

Has anyone made the claim that we needed to PROVE he is racist or else we must acquit him?

No, nor did I imply anyone did, nor did I imply or state if he wasn't a racist, he wasn't guilty.

Or that he's racist?

Yes, that. Sorry, I thought I was very clear.

Because on that same mySpace page he bragged about how his friends would never rat him out to the cops. So is he just a big liar, and his friends would actually rat him out? Or do you deny that he said anything racist on that page? Do you deny that he kept calling the cops on black people?

I'm not sure what you expect to find. I know people who are racist and I bet you that if you asked their friends, they would say they weren't.

So you go for option 2 - GZ is a secret racist ?

Please, take a big step back. You are looking at evidence of over 30 witness interviews, none of which imply in the least GZ was a racist. You think those were all just his friends, and that they were lying to cover for him ? He is being investigated, evidence has been provided, yet you still persist in thinking GZ is a racist. It's a bit boggling.

But this is what George wrote:...That isn't racist to you?

One comment does not a racist make. Is TM a racist based on hit tweets ?

 

[sgtbaker]

But this is what George wrote:

“I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book,” the 2005 Myspace page said. “Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”

That isn't racist to you?

Hispanic isn't a race

 

[Newtons Bit]

That isn't racist to you?

He's a self-racist?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

But this is what George wrote:

I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book,” the 2005 Myspace page said. Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!

That isn't racist to you?

Yes, it has racist connotations to it. But you don't see ANY grey area? Do you think being a racist is like an on/off switch and you are are or you aren't? Certainly some people are just outright nasty racists but with most people it's a matter of degrees. Have you ever seen studies done on unconscious racial bias? Do you know that even people like you and I who pride ourselves on not being racist usually exhibit "racism"? That for instance if asked to evaluate job candidates we'll think we were unbiased, yet studies show that we'll unconsciously lean towards people with less foreign sounding names, or better looking people etc?

Don't you suppose people say things in frustration based on their life's experiences that are racist in nature but don't make them hard core racists? Can you honestly say you've never said anything when you were 22 years old that could be construed as racist?

Have you ever known anyone that has grown up in a tough or gang infested neighborhood? Never heard them talk that way because they want to better themselves and are frustrated? I've heard black people talk that way about other black people. Are they racists?

I don't think it's as simple as you would make it.

 

[Unabogie]

He's a self-racist?

George isn't Mexican.

 

[Bob001]

Did Zimmerman patrol the neighborhood?

From Frank Taaffe:
"I more or less patrolled this sector right here (holds up arms), whereas George took care of the entire complex," he said.

He added: "I would see him in the evening doing his patrol and we would wave, and he would walk his Rottweiler through the complex."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57403716/friend-of-martin-shooter-id-do-the-same-thing/

 

[Unabogie]

Yes, it has racist connotations to it. But you don't see ANY grey area? Do you think being a racist is like an on/off switch and you are are or you aren't? Certainly some people are just outright nasty racists but with most people it's a matter of degrees. Have you ever seen studies done on unconscious racial bias? Do you know that even people like you and I who pride ourselves on not being racist usually exhibit "racism"? That for instance if asked to evaluate job candidates we'll think we were unbiased, yet studies show that we'll unconsciously lean towards people with less foreign sounding names, or better looking people etc?

Don't you suppose people say things in frustration based on their life's experiences that are racist in nature but don't make them hard core racists? Can you honestly say you've never said anything when you were 22 years old that could be construed as racist?

Have you ever known anyone that has grown up in a tough or gang infested neighborhood? Never heard them talk that way because they want to better themselves and are frustrated? I've heard black people talk that way about other black people. Are they racists?

I don't think it's as simple as you would make it.

Yes, I don't use racist language and I find it offensive. By the time I was twenty two I was perfectly clear about the concept.

 

[Unabogie]

From Frank Taaffe:
"I more or less patrolled this sector right here (holds up arms), whereas George took care of the entire complex," he said.

He added: "I would see him in the evening doing his patrol and we would wave, and he would walk his Rottweiler through the complex."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57403716/friend-of-martin-shooter-id-do-the-same-thing/

Well, there you go. So as he said, he walked his dog where he shot Trayvon, and there are only three streets to learn. It's hard to see how he wouldn't know the name of that center street.

Of course, in the walkthrough, there's that ridiculous statement that he had to walk through because there were no addresses on the backs of the houses, when just to his right there's the fronts of all the houses on Twin Trees.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Well, there you go. So as he said, he walked his dog where he shot Trayvon, and there are only three streets to learn. It's hard to see how he wouldn't know the name of that center street.

It's like there wasn't a poster who said he walked hos dog, yet didn't know all the street names...

How many people need to post that they in fact don't know a street name, or might have a 'brain fart' and draw a blank on a street name before you concede that it might be reasonable to believe that it could happen ?

Of course, in the walkthrough, there's that ridiculous statement that he had to walk through because there were no addresses on the backs of the houses, when just to his right there's the fronts of all the houses on Twin Trees.

If you don't know the street name, what good is a house number ? Meet me at 1234 IDon'tKnow street ? If he had claimed he just needed a house number, i would agree with you. I thought that would be his claim earlier on. But it wasn't.

You're right. Clearly he should have just told them "Meet me at 1234 IDon'tKnow street." How ridiculous

 

[Dan O.]

I love the point in the walkthrough video where he is standing at the begining of the cut-through explaining ho he needed to find an address and right in the background behind him is the address on the corner unit.

 

[Dan O.]

It's like there wasn't a poster who said he walked hos dog, yet didn't know all the street names...

It's like you wouldn't be able to describe where you were without the name of the street.

You're right. Clearly he should have just told them "Meet me at 1234 IDon'tKnow street." How ridiculous

How about if you go straight past the club house, past the mailboxes and then make a left? I can tell that you are now totally confused and don't have a clue about where I am talking about. Maybe if you stopped rolling your eyes around and actually looked at the world...

 

[Bob001]

.....How about if you go straight past the club house, past the mailboxes and then make a left? I can tell that you are now totally confused and don't have a clue about where I am talking about....

The thing is that this is a small community with one entrance, and one street circles all the way around it, and apparently the police were pretty familiar with it. GZ could have said "Go through the gate and turn left (or right), and I'll be waiting in my black Honda truck with my flashers on." Or did he want to create an excuse for getting out of his truck?