Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Amazer]

As far as I know, Z's new bond hearing is in 4 days, on Friday.

I would like to try and have an in thread poll (this never works ).

Please quote this and say A,B, or C.

(As far as I remember, original bond was $150,000.)

Poll:

A) Equal to, or less than, original bond

B) More than original bond

C) Bond Denied​

Most likely B but a small chance for C. Don't see A happening in this life time.

 

[Cylinder]

Regarding the presence of trace blood on Martin's hands, I don't see any reference to SPD or SFD bagging them after he was pronounced. It may be that SFD covered the corpse, and nothing else was done until the ME arrived. I don't see the record of the corpse being covered as well, though I'll have to do a more thorough search of the reports.

The ME arrived at 2144 - over 2 hours from TOD.

 

[This is The End]

Most likely B but a small chance for C. Don't see A happening in this life time.

I would have to agree that the safe bet is B. But I do not agree with you about A.

I believe A and C have about the same fairly small but not insignificant likelihood.

 

[Rare Truth]

Why things just don't add up George.

Zimmerman Re-enactment Video w. Notes pt. 1 (inc. comparisons to police call)



A video worth looking at:

 

[Rare Truth]

Still waiting for you to back this up. Should be easy. Which paramedic said it and when ?

You say you back your statements up, remember ?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8386643&highlight=back#post8386643
One thing you should know about me by now, Cyl, is I can almost always back up my statements with solid sources.

EMT Liviingston: http://media2.abcactionnews.com/html/zimmermanevidence/audio/LivingstonFDLE03242012.wav

@6:09

"[He] could possibly need a stitch or two."

Foiled again, eh?

 

[LTC8K6]

Why only on the backs? George claims he grabbed his bloody head and tried to cover his bloody nose with both hands. If his hands have blood on them, but none of it is George's, then this is a problem.

Why did you say "only" when I didn't?

 

[LTC8K6]

Hey, if SPD did not preserve evidence, it is not GZ's fault.

It may also not be SPD's fault. It may just have been the circumstances at the scene.

 

[LTC8K6]

SPD definitely made some mistakes.

They do not check the gun for the number of rounds fired until 3/5, for example. They have to go back and look at the crime scene photos to try to determine the round count.

So, you could say SPD does not know the round count for the weapon at the time of the shooting.

 

[Dancing David]

I actually think it's very obvious that he was punched many times and his head was banged on something hard many times.

Either way this will be a matter for the jury to decide. I applaud your restraint.

I agree that it looks as though he was struck in the face and at some point his head hit something hard enough to create at least one or two lacerations.

 

[Dcdrac]

So... No theory as to how Martin remained amazingly free of Zimmerman's blood, then. Just straw men arguments.

Anyone else want give it a go?

How did Martin keep all of that blood off of him while he repeatedly punched Zimmerman's bloody face, repeatedly bashed Zimmerman's bloody head onto the ground, and attempted to smother him with his bare hands?

Its obvious TMS ghost came back to wash his body clean just so GZ could be framed...

 

[Dancing David]

So it all hinges on GZ's claim that TM went for his gun?

The standard is already discussed in this thread, a 'reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death'.

Certainly if that claim is presented and then the jury agrees with it, that would help meet some of the qualifiers for self defense. It is not a requirement, IMO

 

[Dancing David]

First interview with Detective Singleton THAT NIGHT: (I'm on the path back to my car) Then: He jumped out from the bushes, he punched me in the nose, at that point I fell down. -- I tried to defends myself and he just started punching me in the face, I couldn't see, I couldn't breath...

Singleton asks: Are you still standing at this time?

GZ: No, Ma'am. I fell to the ground when he punched me the first time.

This statement and the reconstruction of the events of that night will be important in the case.

 

[Dancing David]

If I thought there was a serious posssibility that the people who would like to have a rational discussion (and those hopefully lurking) could do so by splitting this off from the bizzare speculationists and deniers, I'd have brought it up in FM by now.

I agree, I would just hate for this to go to CT.

 

[Dancing David]

1. John says the fight took place directly behind his house, not up the walkway.
2. George says he went straight down in his first two versions of the story. The fact that he later changed his story to better explain where he ended up doesn't help.
3. Even in his walkthough, George can't seem to explain how they got all the way down there.

I think the jury will get this material for at least two days. With pictures, diagrams, little animations and expert testimony.

 

[Dancing David]

Ok, so then let's back up. Is the middle of John's house ~55 feet?

We have to be careful here, this will be the subject of lots of actual measurements, scenarios and reconstruction. It could be much less than 55 ft. depending on the angles and the actual evidence.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

EMT Liviingston: http://media2.abcactionnews.com/html/zimmermanevidence/audio/LivingstonFDLE03242012.wav

@6:09

"[He] could possibly need a stitch or two."

Foiled again, eh?

Thank you. Why that so difficult to get you to do, I don't understand. 1 more simple question to go....

So now the we have corrected the incorrect statement about the casing being under the victim, how about you answer the other question I asked you ? Then we can work on dispelling that.

If you don't believe the second picture is accurate, please, don't feel like you have only two options. Tell us what position you think they were in when GZ shot TM ?

 

[bookworm]

IMO, the case is almost exactly the same, even if GZ appears to be uninjured, and was only punched in the nose once.

GZ's injuries are almost irrelevant to his case, imo.

The only injuries I really see as relevant myself are the injuries to the back of his head. That supports his story that he feared for his life at the time he pulled the trigger. Even without that injury the witness supports his story that it was very possible he feared for his life.

 

[bookworm]

Just a question here: According to this NY Times diagram (you have to click on the arrows, go to the last page), TM struck GZ on the sidewalk at the T intersection BEFORE they were in the backyards between a row of townhouses. Then TM's body was found about three houses IN along that row. That's a pretty substantial distance. So, is this accurate? Does GZ claim that TM punched him, then ran away and GZ chased him? Or that GZ tried to run away, and TM chased him? Or that they struggled hand-to-hand the whole distance? Or what? How did they get from the initial punch to the location of the body?
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...eading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

I second this question.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It's a fairly simply concept. When a person repeatedly comes in contact with blood, one would expect to find evidence of that blood on the parts of them that came in contact with it.

Martin's hands repeatedly came in contact with Zimmerman's bleeding face and head, so one would expect to find Zimmerman's blood on Martin's hands.

You're using fingernail scrapings - not swabs from Martin's hands.

From page 106:

There's no record at this point that any swabs were taken of Martin's hands.

Johnny, I think I'll wait for you to address Cylinder first before I respond.

 

[bookworm]

No witness said anything like that. The only witness who said anything close retracted his original statement and said he isn't sure what be saw.

Can you explain how Martin remained untouched by Zimmerman's blood after repeatedly punching Zimmerman's bleeding face, repeatedly bashing his bleeding head into the ground, and attempting to smother him, all with his bare hands?

I believe the witnesses original statement, not what they may say after people change their minds for them. That witness said Martin was beating the crap out of Zimmerman. (Not those exact words.)

No, I find that curious myself. The blood and wounds are there though, so it happened somehow.