The bible condones slavery

keale said:
Anyone? For you believers when are you going to chime in? Clearly divine morality and whats great is that unlike other things that are vague or you have to interpret correctly of course guided by god. Now Slavery on the other hand is clear cut and the rules of not just buying and selling of slaves are laid out how to treat them is there too...just like an owners manual. Good stuff there

Im thinking I want a Russian slave girl like an Anna Kornukova look alike. I love that accent and she can call me a capitalist pig.
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The believers won't pay any attention to anything that makes them uncomfortable with their religion. Great is the power of ignore in them.
 
Pup said:
If one wants to read Christians arguing whether slavery is moral, from a Biblical point of view, 19th century American publications are one of the best places.
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Gawdzilla said:
William Lloyd Garrison.
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Gawdzilla said:
Thank you, I was about to get out my paper notes. Douglass was a magnificent writer. Garrison was a fire-and-brimstone preacher of abolition.

Of some slight interest, Garrison's son helped the NAACP in their counter-attack of "Birth of a Nation".
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Pup said:
Them too, but I was thinking more of the head-on debates between preachers, like these:

"A Debate on Slavery, ... upon the Question: Is slave-holding in itself sinful, and the relation between master and slaves a sinful relation?"
Affirmative: Rev. J. Blanchard, Pastor of the Sixth Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati
Negative: N. L. Rice, D.D., Pastor of the Central Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati

or

"Ought American Slavery to be Perpetuated? A Debate between Rev. W. G. Brownlow and Rev. A. Pryne held at Philadelphia, September, 1858"
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Gawdzilla said:
So many epic battles, so little time. Thanks for the breadcrumbs!
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Ditto. I've made a note of the links and will read them as soon as time frees up.

I read just a little bit so far (skimmed really). I'm not sure where Blanchard is going with this yet esp since it doesn't seem that it helps his case or would make his supporters feel better about their pro-slavery position -- but he mentions some cases where some Caucasians were enslaved against their will because their enslavers said that they were partially African-Americans despite that not being so. I will have to go back and see how he ties these stories into his position.

Amazing. Not the kind of stuff covered in grade school or even high school history. ;)
 
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Gawdzilla said:
The believers won't pay any attention to anything that makes them uncomfortable with their religion. Great is the power of ignore in them.
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We have threads that go forever discussing how morality must come from the bible god but when you point out the bible god says slavery is fine and dandy you get nothing.....crickets. :confused:
 
Gawdzilla said:
You don't expect intellectual honesty from believers, do you?
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Once I had a discussion with believers that told me that biblical chattel slavery was somehow better than 18th-19th century slavery. The reasoning was that these slaves would have no other means to make a living and the slave owner was actually doing them a favor. They pointed to the fact that it was like a contract where at the end of 7 years they could be set free.
 
keale said:
Once I had a discussion with believers that told me that biblical chattel slavery was somehow better than 18th-19th century slavery. The reasoning was that these slaves would have no other means to make a living and the slave owner was actually doing them a favor.
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Same logic used in raping ugly women, they should feel lucky they're getting laid at all.
They pointed to the fact that it was like a contract where at the end of 7 years they could be set free.
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Only the Hebrews and only if he hasn't taken a wife and hasn't been beaten to death. And there is no mechanism for freeing female slaves, Hebrew or not, IIRC.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Same logic used in raping ugly women, they should feel lucky they're getting laid at all.

Only the Hebrews and only if he hasn't taken a wife and hasn't been beaten to death. And there is no mechanism for freeing female slaves, Hebrew or not, IIRC.
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All true and I agree and trust me my BS meter was on overload :jaw-dropp
 
"The church of this country is not only indifferent to the wrongs of the slave, it actually takes sides with the opressors. For my part I would say, wecome the infidelity! Welcome atheism! Welcome anything in preference to the gospel, as preached by those Divines! They convert the very name of religion into an engine of tyranny and bararous cruelty, and serve to confirm more infidels in this age than all the infidel writings of Thomas Paine, Voltaire and Bolingbroke, put together, have done!"

Frederick Douglas
​
 
keale said:
Once I had a discussion with believers that told me that biblical chattel slavery was somehow better than 18th-19th century slavery. The reasoning was that these slaves would have no other means to make a living and the slave owner was actually doing them a favor. They pointed to the fact that it was like a contract where at the end of 7 years they could be set free.
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DOC appears to believe something like this
 
Tricky said:
"The church of this country is not only indifferent to the wrongs of the slave, it actually takes sides with the opressors. For my part I would say, wecome the infidelity! Welcome atheism! Welcome anything in preference to the gospel, as preached by those Divines! They convert the very name of religion into an engine of tyranny and bararous cruelty, and serve to confirm more infidels in this age than all the infidel writings of Thomas Paine, Voltaire and Bolingbroke, put together, have done!"

Frederick Douglas
​
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Great quote. To be pedantic, though, the first sentence does not directly precede the rest. See here the whole speech.
 
This seems to be a well written article from the Christian perspective that explains some of the rationale. I'm not familiar with the history of the area during biblical times to say whether this is accurate nor do I necessarily agree with everything, but at least it has some interesting biblical points to debate that seem contradictory.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1587

Here is some information on Jewish laws regarding slavery:

http://http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/305549/jewish/Torah-Slavery-and-the-Jews.htm

Here are some Roman laws pertaining to slavery:

https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~wstevens/history331texts/slavery.html

Maybe it will put this into some kind of perspective regardless of personal belief. Marduk could probably do a better job in describing what society was like back then, I've yet to read the material I want to research regarding the surrounding tribes in the area. I'll have to wait to delve into this issue until I get a better understanding of who lived where, when, and how.
 
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