Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[johnny karate]

Did you also think that nothing seemed right about the OJ case and that he was framed by Mark Fuhrman?

Considering that we've had unsubstantiated allegations about Corey's unethical behavior and implications that Zimmerman is getting railroaded, it's laughably ironic that a perfectly valid inquiry into the version of events of a proven liar gets this kind of snarky reply.

 

[Unabogie]

You make a good point here. One either knows whether TM could hit someone hard enough to break his nose with a jab, or not. I would say we all fall into the "or not" category.

Ok, but that's a skill that the vast majority of people don't have. It would be unusual for Trayvon to have had some sort of "crisp, hard, jab" capable of knocking a guy down. In fact, I think that's just in the movies. In real life, 17 year old kids don't send people down to the ground with their off-hands.

And since we don't have any evidence he was a lefty (could be true, but again that's rare), we should assume his single mark wasn't from a punch. Other than the one mark, he didn't have signs of a fight.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

And he allegedly caused him to bleed.

Right before GZ allegedly shot him. However using your standards of evidence I must say the evidence that GZ shot him is looking fishier and fishier.

 

[Unabogie]

Right before GZ allegedly shot him. However using your standards of evidence I must say the evidence that GZ shot him is looking fishier and fishier.

You know for a fact how George got his wounds? Perhaps the word of a proven liar shouldn't be accepted at face value?

 

[Dan O.]

Maybe. Is there something in particular that you do not understand and want explained ?

Is this the way you are going to be? It is your argument that DNA deposited by pulling the trigger is comparable to DNA deposited by a struggle over the gun. My counter argument is that the pressures involved in pulling the trigger is far less than what would be exerted in any struggle over the gun. The statistics from "trigger ID" show there is no guarantee that DNA would be left by the shooter though elements like wearing gloves or subsequently wiping down the weapon would affect those results. I would expect that a life or death struggle over a gun would be almost guaranteed to leave DNA behind especially where the gun is grabbed on surfaces that aren't intended for holding it. I don't have such statistics at hand but it is something that can be measured and probably has been.

Now, are you going to yield this point or at least make an effort to defend your argument? Or will you be running off to hide behind yet another goalpost?

 

[GWCarver]

If you don't care what goes on at the Treehouse, skip this post.

Sundancecracker says he has independently verified no law enforcement agency investigated the "three stooges" because they didn't know TM was still hanging around, as discovered by Diwataman. That means if he did indeed acquire something from them that he didn't have when the police found his body, he could have ran to dump it before coming back to confront Z, which would bring into question the entire prosecution's narrative.

Of course, that begs the question of why the tape of them in the 7/11 was included in the evidence dump. I had assumed it was because they knew TM was still there for 5 minutes after he left the store.

In any case, one of them paid with a credit card, so one side, the other, or both will have contacted them by now and have their statements, or at least have it on the schedule.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...man-will-be-acquitted-p-e-r-i-o-d/#more-41705

 

[Unabogie]

If you don't care what goes on at the Treehouse, skip this post.

Sundancecracker says he has independently verified no law enforcement agency investigated the "three stooges" because they didn't know TM was still hanging around, as discovered by Diwataman. That means if he did indeed acquire something from them that he didn't have when the police found his body, he could have ran to dump it before coming back to confront Z, which would bring into question the entire prosecution's narrative.

Of course, that begs the question of why the tape of them in the 7/11 was included in the evidence dump. I had assumed it was because they knew TM was still there for 5 minutes after he left the store.

In any case, one of them paid with a credit card, so one side, the other, or both will have contacted them by now and have their statements, or at least have it on the schedule.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...man-will-be-acquitted-p-e-r-i-o-d/#more-41705

There's zero evidence of any kind of drug buy from anyone. Not the least of which was that Trayvon was shot dead so anything he had on him would have still been there.

But hey, since we're speculating, what if George Zimmerman stole the drugs, and that's why he killed Trayvon? Police also didn't do a tox screen on George, so I'm going to just go ahead and assume he's a methhead. I think he was following Trayvon because he was hopped up and looking to score. I think George killed Trayvon is a drug induced rage.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Sundancecracker says he has independently verified no law enforcement agency investigated the "three stooges" because they didn't know TM was still hanging around, as discovered by Diwataman.

I have not followed all of the treehouse stuff, a few questions:
1. Do we know definitively that TM was still hanging around?

2. If so, what evidence does he have that law enforcement didn't know TM was still hanging around? What does he base his assertion on that he discovered it?

 

[GWCarver]

There's zero evidence of any kind of drug buy from anyone. Not the least of which was that Trayvon was shot dead so anything he had on him would have still been there.

Yes, unless the police stole it. Anything he dumped between the time he started running and the time he returned to the area of the "T" wouldn't be on him.

 

[johnny karate]

If you don't care what goes on at the Treehouse, skip this post.

Sundancecracker says he has independently verified no law enforcement agency investigated the "three stooges" because they didn't know TM was still hanging around, as discovered by Diwataman. That means if he did indeed acquire something from them that he didn't have when the police found his body, he could have ran to dump it before coming back to confront Z, which would bring into question the entire prosecution's narrative.

Of course, that begs the question of why the tape of them in the 7/11 was included in the evidence dump. I had assumed it was because they knew TM was still there for 5 minutes after he left the store.

In any case, one of them paid with a credit card, so one side, the other, or both will have contacted them by now and have their statements, or at least have it on the schedule.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...man-will-be-acquitted-p-e-r-i-o-d/#more-41705

Well, that didn't take long:

Enough time has been wasted by many of us responding to these unnecessarily provocative posts, which are invariably followed by exchanges that have nothing to do with what happened at the "T", or the legal proceedings resulting from it.

So, unless there comes a time when past missteps by Z and TM become relevant to what is happening in the present, I would just as soon leave them alone.

I'll keep in mind your newfound desire to only discuss the facts directly pertinent to the case the next time you post another steaming heap of biased speculation from The Conservative Treehouse.

But hey, you held out for almost two whole days. That's something to be proud of.

But I'm sure just as soon as something unfavorable about Zimmerman starts getting batted around, you'll be back to demanding we only discuss "what happened at the "T", or the legal proceedings resulting from it".

 

[crimresearch]

I found Alan Dershowitz's argument more compelling than yours, and think 'none of which are even close' is a bizarre statement, but quite possibly one very popular in some venues or 'sources' that I don't bother frequenting or even enduring if I can avoid it--for that very reason.



I disagree and think 'clearly exceeded' is ridiculous. It may turn out to be 'close enough for government work,' but I don't think in the long run anyone will ever say that APC 'clearly exceeded' the probable cause threshold for murder.



Dunno specifically what you're talking about, but just because I'm curious I cannot help but ask this: do you realize that 'not required to include exculpatory evidence' does not mean the same thing as 'any exculpatory evidence may be omitted at the option of the prosecutor?'

If you do, can you tell me why?

I've provided cites for what I said. And what I said is the accepted definition and usage throughout the legal system. Denial isn't going to make those things change.

The cites you provided, including Derschowitz, do *not* say what you keep claiming they say, and I've already spelled out why.

Whatever point you think you are making, it isn't correct, and it isn't useful to the discussion.

 

[GWCarver]

I have not followed all of the treehouse stuff, a few questions:
1. Do we know definitively that TM was still hanging around?

2. If so, what evidence does he have that law enforcement didn't know TM was still hanging around? What does he base his assertion on that he discovered it?

I don't know what evidence he has that LE didn't investigate it. He didn't say. The video from the last evidence dump shows the "three stooges" walk in a couple minutes after TM walked out, and you can see him walking back and forth a couple of times through the window. He can be identified by his hoodie and the big button on he had pinned on the front of it. After either one or all of them walk out (I'm taking this off the top of my head), TM can be seen walking backwards for a few steps, as if talking or saying good-bye, then turn and head back in the direction of the town homes. There is also some money palming and some cigar purchases, the kind that are known to be used to make blunts.

It was Diwataman who discovered it:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...arch-reposting-the-7-11-video-from-diwataman/

 

[KatieG]

I don't know what evidence he has that LE didn't investigate it. He didn't say. The video from the last evidence dump shows the "three stooges" walk in a couple minutes after TM walked out, and you can see him walking back and forth a couple of times through the window. He can be identified by his hoodie and the big button on he had pinned on the front of it. After either one or all of them walk out (I'm taking this off the top of my head), TM can be seen walking backwards for a few steps, as if talking or saying good-bye, then turn and head back in the direction of the town homes. There is also some money palming and some cigar purchases, the kind that are known to be used to make blunts.

It was Diwataman who discovered it:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...arch-reposting-the-7-11-video-from-diwataman/

Doesn't it ever get old dragging stuff over from the tree house, most of it to slam the dead teen? Talkleft doesn't help either cuz JM has never met a defendant she didn't love. Side note: if you listened to her during the ramsay case, the parents weren't even in the house that night!!! ok, a little hyperbole there, but not much.

 

[crimresearch]

Doesn't it ever get old dragging stuff over from the tree house, most of it to slam the dead teen? Talkleft doesn't help either cuz JM has never met a defendant she didn't love. Side note: if you listened to her during the ramsay case, the parents weren't even in the house that night!!! ok, a little hyperbole there, but not much.

So why is it OK for you to repeatedly 'drag stuff' in long after the proof is in (like the 'no broken nose'), but not OK for people to cite actual documents and such just because of the website they are found on?

 

[LTC8K6]

I think TM tried to buy a blunt, was denied by the clerk, and then got the stooges to buy for him. I think that's pretty clear in the videos from the store.

So far, I can't see any reason to connect it to the incident with GZ. Right now, I would have to say the events are unrelated.

 

[GWCarver]

Well, that didn't take long:



But hey, you held out for almost two whole days. That's something to be proud of.

But I'm sure just as soon as something unfavorable about Zimmerman starts getting batted around, you'll be back to demanding we only discuss "what happened at the "T", or the legal proceedings resulting from it".

This information just came out today. It is new. If it is true that LE didn't know and/or investigate TM still being outside the 7/11, it could be huge. No way I would ever ignore something like this, but there really isn't anything to discuss about it. We just have to wait and see what shows up in the next dump, or the hearing later this month.

There was one member here who didn't know TM didn't leave the 7/11 when he walked out the door.

 

[This is The End]

As far as the MMA style witness statements.

Some of you are claiming that that witness perhaps had memory degradation.

I, on the other hand, thought that earlier in the thread we learned that that witness admitted to making false statements originally.

Which one is correct, there is a big difference.

--------------

On the matter of the broken nose.

Some of you are acting like a broken nose is binary. Broken or not broken. Isn't there a large range, from barely fractured to completely destroyed (layman's terms)?

I'd be surprised if Z's broken nose is (was) anywhere near the destroyed end of the range, since ,AFAIK, people that have a completely destroyed nose lose tons of blood and are in severe pain for quite some time.

So I wonder if many people who are saying that Z didn't have a broken nose are meaning that he didn't have a real broken nose, IE completely destroyed.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/justice/texas-abuser-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

This father apparently punched a man in the head...to death. The man was apparently sexually assaulting his child.

 

[GWCarver]

I think TM tried to buy a blunt, was denied by the clerk, and then got the stooges to buy for him. I think that's pretty clear in the videos from the store.

So far, I can't see any reason to connect it to the incident with GZ. Right now, I would have to say the events are unrelated.

I agree. Also, he could have just wanted a cigar to smoke while he was walking back. I started smoking thin cigars before cigarettes. (I quit after a few years.) We just don't know enough about him right now.

 

[GWCarver]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/justice/texas-abuser-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

This father apparently punched a man in the head...to death. The man was apparently sexually assaulting his child.

Texas has a "crime of passion" law that may help him on this.