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Merged 9/11 No Plane/Energy Weapon discussion thread

If at some point in my life I get convinced by someome presenting the same facts as he's presented here I hope someone takes me out behind the shed.

Not at all, we will get you a nice jacket and a comfortable room with no hard surfaces and treat you with kindness.........However we will not allow you to have the internet access we have given other patients. That has proven to be a mistake. You wouldn't believe the nonsense they come up with.......one even thought the WTC towers had been turned into foam!:D
 
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He can and will run away from the facts. But how is he going to convince anyone his delusions are real unless he confronts the facts openly and honestly, with no conjecture?

He's had plenty of opportunities to confront the facts, but does not deal with them because he is of the belief that 911 was an inside job and continues to provide evidence of his cognitive dissonance.
 
He's had plenty of opportunities to confront the facts, but does not deal with them because he is of the belief that 911 was an inside job and continues to provide evidence of his cognitive dissonance.

I guess Chief Pfeifer and Jules Naudet didn't watch the first plane go into WTC 1 either...I guess they were in on it...but yet, still risked their lives heading immediately to the WTC and going inside it. Is it me or do no plane retards just use that corner scene from the documentary as "proof it was setup" and then ignore the fact that everyone in that scene rushed to the WTC to start emergency operations. Or the fact that Chief Pfeifer's brother died in the collapse...

No planers are the bottom of the barrel of twoof and deserve only ridicule. No one should entertain any attempt at serious discussion with this jammonious character.
 
<snipped silly blathering>Let's see, the word "ridiculous" was used for an earlier observation... Ludicrous? Well, at least you avoiding using "ridiculous" for a third time...Ludicrous, (again), stupid (again, twice in same sentence!).


Unfortunately for Judy, ludricrous, ridiculous and stupid are the three most appropriate words in the English language to describe the nonsense that she spouts both on the internet and via her frivolous lawsuits. I could add many synonyms but it wouldn't change reality. You shouldn't blame others for the failings of Judy Wood and her lawyer, nor should you blame others for the proper use of the English language in describing the failings of Judy Wood and her lawyer.


<snipped more silly blathering>No sanctions of any kind were imposed, precisely because the case was sufficiently substantiated to have made it improper for sanctions to be imposed.


That is not true. Both the court of first instance (in its initial decision and in its decision on the request for reconsideration) and the appellate court specifically held that the pleading advanced on behalf of Ms. Wood was so poor that it could not even meet the very low threshold required to survive a motion to strike, without the defendants even having to file a defence to the ridiculous, ludicrous, and woefully drafted Complaint.

Both the court of first instance and the appellate court held that the pleading was so woefully inadequate that it could not even make it past the very lowest hurdle to even require a defence to be filed by the defendants. The courts held that the plaintiff lacked standing to bring certain of her putative claims, and that she failed to plead any legally coherent claims in her Complaint (i.e., the claims were frivolous, and grossly improperly pleaded).

Both courts also held that the Complaint was not even worthy of being permitted to be amended because it was so hopelessly inadequate that even amending could not salvage it. That is about as bad as it gets - not even being able to draft a Complaint that can make it past the very low standard that it had to meet at the pleadings stage. Yikes!

The appellate court specifically held that:

Appellate Court said:
We have considered all of Wood's arguments bearing on the adequacy of the pleadings in the Amended Complaint and Wood's request for leave to amend. We find them to be without merit and, as such, the district court's dismissal of Wood's claim with prejudice pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 9(b) is AFFIRMED.


That is pretty much the worst of the worst kind of failure that a plaintiff and her lawyer can achieve.

By the way, you didn't mention that sanctions were asked for at the district court level and at the appeal level and were DENIED all the way through.


It is a serious failing of the civil court system in NY, in my view, that sanctions are almost never imposed against parties who bring frivolous and vexatious lawsuits that are so bad that they cannot even state a claim or assert appropriate jurisdiction and are so badly drafted that even amending would not cure the deficiencies. In the jurisdiction in which I live, the general rule is "costs follow the event" which means that a plaintiff bringing a frivolous, nonsensical, and bound-to-fail lawsuit (such as the one that Judy Wood brought) would result in costs payable by the plaintiff (or her lawyer) to the successful defendants on a motion to strike. That is the standard here, and it is a good one.

That aside, the only motions for sanctions in which I've been interested in this case were those being sought by a couple of non-government defendants against Ms. Wood's lawyer (as the government defendants did not seek sanctions and the non-government defendants did not seek costs against Judy personally) and I recall asking you quite some time ago to substantiate your claims about other sanctions being sought, but you never did. I take your failure to provide evidence of your claims to mean that you cannot do so. I will, of course, revisit that should you ever provide evidence in support of your claim in the future.

In any event, the defendants apparently recognized Judy's serious difficulties and chose not to proceed with a motion for sanctions against her on that basis, but felt that it was worthwhile to pursue taking her lawyer to task for his shameful role in the debacle, possibly because of the strong wording used by the District Court.

It's a shame, really, that the courts in NY are so gun-shy, though, and that they seem to often speak a good game but then not follow through, and Judy's lawyer was lucky that the appellate court let him off the hook with only a warning. I do not know, obviously, but reading between the lines, I am guessing that the court may have concluded that her lawyer was not exactly firing on all cylinders himself, and felt kind of sorry for him too.

But in no way whatsoever did either the court of first instance or the appellate court say or even hint that "the case was sufficiently substantiated to have made it improper for sanctions to be imposed" as you stated above. To even suggest that is an out and out lie, frankly. The courts specifically denounced the pleading and the appellate court specifically denounced the lawyer for bringing such a ludicrous and frivolous appeal but cut him a break by not imposing sanctions against him personally, quite possibly because they felt a bit sorry for him, too. But they were absolutely clear that the case was NOT substantiated in any way, shape or form and that if he tried it on again, they would smack him down six ways to Sunday.

Why are you trying to misrepresent the court judgments in this case, particularly when the documents are readily available to prove the extent of your misrepresentation?

Finally, last I heard, Judy sought leave to appeal to the SCOTUS and leave was summarily denied. So, in the result, every single court that ever dealt with the matter said that it was so woefully inadequate that it could not be saved even by amending it; in other words: ludicrous, stupid, ridiculous, and beyond hope from the outset. Those really are the best words to describe it.

Dr. Judy Wood merits respect.


One has to earn the respect of others, and Judy Wood has not done anything to earn my respect. In fact, in light of the manner in which she disrespects the deceased and their families with the patent nonsense that she promulgates so hurtfully and hatefully, she has actually earned my disrespect. My disrespect for her would, of course, be tempered with compassion if she is, indeed, mentally ill. In my view, the mentally ill deserve compassion and deserve to have their actions viewed in a different light than the actions of those who are fully capable and cognizant. However, if she is not mentally ill, the fact that she continues to peddle her hurtful and hateful nonsense would mean that no such tempering with compassion would be warranted at all and full-on contempt and loathing would be the order of the day.
 
These couple of photographs seem legit. At least what this represents is an examination of the evidence, instead of disrespect. Pick apart her claims at great length. I'm reading.

Like her scientific claim that cars on FDR drive were toasted in place? She tries to discredit the fact that they were towed to FDR from the WTC area. Here's proof. This is car 2723.

Here is a car BEFORE being towed to FDR. Notice the circle around the tree branch and the arrow pointing to the name of the hotel, The Millennium Hilton.
[qimg]http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/gamolon/car2723wtc.jpg[/qimg]

Here is that same area showing the location of the car. It's a more clear photo showing the same tree branch and hotel name circled in red, but at a later date.
[qimg]http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/gamolon/milleniumhotel.png[/qimg]

Here is that same car later on FDR drive after being moved from it's location after the attacks.
[qimg]http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/gamolon/car2723fdrb.jpg[/qimg]

Yeah, nobody can pick apart her claims.

:rolleyes:
 
I have read this book, and I was already familiar with most of the evidence that is contained in this book. I judge it to be excellent overall. The parts of Dr. Wood's work that are relevant to my work I judge to be the very best.

She very thoroughly examines the crime scene over time, and I like that.

Thank you, AJM, it's good to be back. A renewed discussion amongst those who are reading or have read Where Did the Towers Go? sounds a good idea to me. In addition, for those who haven't read it and whose unemployment check might not stretch to a book purchase this week, I suppose we could all scour the web to see what might be obtained without benefit of purchasing the book.

So, I'll take you up on your request by providing a good place to start:

http://drjudywood.com/towers/


Let me know your thoughts,

best

jammonius
 
Steven Jones has made some awful mistakes scientifically. He's been informed about them repeatedly. I don't like scientists who refuses to adapt their theory to new evidence.

And there's no doubting Steven Jones was earlier known for his role in the debunking of Pons and Fleischman. His testimony is shameful for a scientist. He said he couldn't reproduce their work in his lab. Another way to say this is that his scientific team was not capable of reproducing the work of outside scientists. This is embarrassing. If I were running a lab, and this kind of thing happened, I'd crack the whip and fire people until I found someone who could reproduce the work I was tasked with reproducing.

He basically said that cold fusion didn't exist because his lab was unable to achieve it, even given a protocol. Inventing something is difficult. Merely following a protocol? Easy. And his lab couldn't do it. Ugh! And, think about what he's saying about 9/11, that it was an extremely hot process (5,000 degrees F) that destroyed the WTC.

Jones is covering up for cold fusion, again, and I find this highly suspect. Either he is as bad at science as he has publicly claimed himself to be, or he is involved with the conspirators. Neither one is good. Steven Jones is my enemy (and he should be yours, too) because he is the enemy of the United States. He supports a theory of US complicity in the attacks of 9/11, and I can't agree to that or respect a scientist who does based on shoddy evidence that he provided.

This answer has no bearing at all on the question I asked in the post you responded to here. The fact is you harry posters in the OP for making "derogatory" remarks about Dr. Judy Wood then, in the same post call Prof. Steven Jones "evil" "out of touch" and "an enemy of the United States". You also write there:-





This statement doesn't marry up with your own remarks about Prof. Jones. Please explain this apparent contradiction.

Compus
 
I'm not calling anyone a liar, except Steven Jones, and that's only because he has been informed repeatedly of the error of his ways and hasn't changed.

I find it funny that WTC Dust expects us to just take her word for it concerning the chain of custody of her 'evidence', yet insists that we accept those who collected the DNA of passengers and plane parts are lying.
 
That's the problem with most people who disrespect Judy Wood. They don't actually understand what she's saying. They haven't spent the time it takes to read and understand her work. You have to read her work AND read extra references in order to understand the basics of what she's saying.

I'll summarize it here: The buildings didn't make a big BOOM when they landed.

Get it? The seismic data does not record vibrations that would be consistent with a gigantic building slamming into the ground.

See how this is very different but consistent with me finding metallic foam? Foam doesn't make a very big boom if it hits the ground.

I'm not afraid to admit I might be a little out of my depth.

I am not informed enough about the science involved. As I wrote, I don't feel qualified to "pick apart" her claims. And anyway this thread wouldn't be the place to do so. I do feel though, from my limited knowledge of geology/seismology/physics, that there are strong reasons to suspect that Judy Wood's theories in this regard are seriously flawed.


Compus
 
Why do you suggest this?

It sounds like she has some aversion to knowledge of the weapon itself. It's as if trying to understand it is some form of blasphemy. Like God for Christians, it's best to just be content that it exists and not try to figure it out.

Not very scientific. Not very respectable.
 
These questions are distractions. She's trying to prove something in a very methodical way, and those questions jump into the future and require speculation on what isn't fully understood. Judy Wood studies the mechanism of destruction of the WTC. This has value, even if the weapon hasn't been discovered yet.

I believe you are correct. In her interview with Greg Jenkins about 5 years ago, she referred to his questions about the specifics of the weapon as "distractions". Not very scientific thinking. To her, the only thing that is important is the belief that some mythical device really does exist that is capable of what she describes. When you start talking about specifics, you bring in that pesky known science that can cast doubt on her crazy theory. As long as she keeps it vague, then, in her mind, her belief is safe.
 
There is evidence, and then there is good evidence. Scientists are required to make these judgements all the time and "wave away" stuff that is weak. You're talking about the process of doing science here. No big deal. You can't include every shred of evidence, because not all evidence is high quality evidence.

Precisely. Her delusion also relies on handwaving away any evidence that contradicts her idea as if it didn't exist. That's the yin to the dustification yang of her truly-divorced-from-reality beliefs.
 
Why don't you take the time to find out what she really says about all this, instead of speculating?

It's gone from directed energy to directed free energy I see. She spoke with some "Zero Point Energy" people and swapped notes or whatever.

Maybe I can turn this Toyota into foam using my Power Balance bracelet.
 
False. I didn't ignore Mackey. I read his work. I pointed out this extra constraint that he added and question the constraint. Certainly, the constraint was not and is not a part of Dr. Wood's work. It's something that Mackey added. I wanted to see debate on this addition, but nobody provided it. Was it accepted without debate? Really?

Exactly.

And anyone claiming a cause but completely unable to explain how that cause works is not worth respect.
If that person demands that they be taken seriously, and ignores all attempts to show where they went wrong, and accuses innocent people and victims of horrendous crimes, then that person becomes worthy of contempt.

That is what Ms. Wood is doing. Hence her earned disrespect.

WTC Dust's attempts to ignore Mr. Mackey's work because Mr. Mackey analyzed the practicalities of DEW at various locations, while lauding the claims of Ms. Woods (who refuses to even describe how her hypothesized DEW even operates), are certainly not worthy of serious consideration. They are merely the frantic dance of a mind unable to cope with real objections and problems to a claim that has taken on the role of ideology.
 
You got this wrong. Really wrong. James Fetzer was spurned by Judy Wood, rightfully so. The man is awful.


This (the free energy aspect) is the influence of her unstinting belief in the patently fraudulent "Hutchison Effect". She became highly enamoured with Hutch a number of years ago. Leading to a split with her then-time busom-buddy Jim Fetzer. That should turn on a little light somewhere, I mean when even Jim Fetzer dumps you for being too crazy that should indicate somethings wrong. Fetzer is a man who after all welcomes with open arms such lauded luminaries of the TM as Rosalee Grable on his show at every whip-stitch.

Respect? Don't make me laugh my sides might split.

Compus
 
So, we have concluded that Judy Wood is bat-guano insane?
 
Asking about total energy consumption is a distraction. Maybe it doesn't require any energy. Maybe the process produces energy. !!! GET IT????

So many of you act like you're intellectually living in a very small box.

Well...duh...you can't think about specifics...like total energy consumption or the type of energy that can turn steel to dust. Just free your mind of such "distractions" and only concern yourself that the government has figured it all out, and has black projects that can do this. You *********** sheeple.
 

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