Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Cylinder]

I agree the defense will ask for the pre-trial hearing. If they do, Zimmerman will testify. There is absolutely zero doubt about that.

I keep going back-and-forth in my mind in this respect. I think the less likely O'Mara feels the motion has to succeed, the less likely that Zimmerman testifies at that hearing -assuming his testimony during the hearing could be used at trial. Accoriding to this story -written before the Zimmerman incident - it can. One of the reasons O'Mara put Zimmerman on the stand at the bond hearing was it was a free chance for Zimmerman to appeal to the media without comprimising his right to self-incrimination - since this testimony cannot be used at trial.

 

[Rare Truth]

Isn't that a crime? Lying to the judge.

George sure is lucky.

Looks like it's a "misdemeanor or felony one degree less then the charge for which the bond is sought but no higher than felony 3" for failure to provide full and accurate information in a bail proceeding.

903.035 Applications for bail; information provided; hearing on application for modification; penalty for providing false or misleading information or omitting material information.—

(1)(a) All information provided by a defendant, in connection with any application for or attempt to secure bail, to any court, court personnel, or individual soliciting or recording such information for the purpose of evaluating eligibility for, or securing, bail for the defendant, under circumstances such that the defendant knew or should have known that the information was to be used in connection with an application for bail, shall be accurate, truthful, and complete without omissions to the best knowledge of the defendant.
(b) The failure to comply with the provisions of paragraph (a) may result in the revocation or modification of bail.

(2) An application for modification of bail on any felony charge must be heard by a court in person, at a hearing with the defendant present, and with at least 3 hours’ notice to the state attorney.
(3) Any person who intentionally provides false or misleading material information or intentionally omits material information in connection with an application for bail or for modification of bail is guilty of a misdemeanor or felony which is one degree less than that of the crime charged for which bail is sought, but which in no event is greater than a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/903.035

 

[Cylinder]

Looks like it's a "misdemeanor or felony one degree less then the charge for which the bond is sought but no higher than felony 3" for failure to provide full and accurate information in a bail proceeding.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/903.035

The problem being that O'Mara questioned all of the family witnesses about the account. Everyone acknowledged its existence but knew how much was raised. O'Mara himself informedd the court of the account's existence during the initial bond hearing but asserted that he was not aware of the balance. Zimmerman's wife did testify that it was her understanding that Zimmerman's brother, Robert, administered the PayPal account. Robert was with Zimmerman's father and was made available for questioning Rionda passed. It's not even clear that George Zimmerman has access to the account at the time of the initial hearing. The website was registered on April 8 and George was arrested on April 11. By the time on the actual hearing on April 20, the account had accrued around $150,000.

 

[Rare Truth]

The problem being that O'Mara questioned all of the family witnesses about the account. Everyone acknowledged its existence but knew how much was raised. O'Mara himself informedd the court of the account's existence during the initial bond hearing but asserted that he was not aware of the balance. Zimmerman's wife did testify that it was her understanding that Zimmerman's brother, Robert, administered the PayPal account. Robert was with Zimmerman's father and was made available for questioning Rionda passed. It's not even clear that George Zimmerman has access to the account at the time of the initial hearing. The website was registered on April 8 and George was arrested on April 11. By the time on the actual hearing on April 20, the account had accrued around $150,000.

1. He'd already spent some 50K of that money.
2. O'Mara stated Zimm knew 150K was there at the hearing. I heard him say it.
Then after he said this:

“He absolutely knew there was money in that account. I am not suggesting he didn’t know it was there,” O’Mara told reporters after a court hearing Friday where the issue was disclosed to the court. “The question is whether he felt that needed to be disclosed.… It was an oversight.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/27/2770968/zimmerman-attorney-to-tell-judge.html

3. It was Zimmermans responsibility to disclose it in his bond application.

 

[Rare Truth]

I think this part makes it pretty clear:

"(1)(a) All information provided by a defendant, in connection with any application for or attempt to secure bail, to any court, court personnel, or individual soliciting or recording such information for the purpose of evaluating eligibility for, or securing, bail for the defendant, under circumstances such that the defendant knew or should have known that the information was to be used in connection with an application for bail, shall be accurate, truthful, and complete without omissions to the best knowledge of the defendant.(b) The failure to comply with the provisions of paragraph (a) may result in the revocation or modification of bail."

 

[Cylinder]

I feel pretty certain that Judge Lester will examine what evidence is turned over to him and act accordingly. I don't think he'll take to kindly to being lied to.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

1. He'd already spent some 50K of that money.

You've said that multiple times although it has also been pointed out multiple times that the fact that there is 150K left in the Paypal account does not mean 50K was "spent". It may mean that, but it could mean it was moved out of Paypal and into a bank account or similar. Do you refuse to acknowledge that and just prefer to go with the "spent" line because if better fits with the narrative you want to believe/tell?

 

[LTC8K6]

Lawyer: Angela Corey missed deadline to release evidence

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/La...ence/-/1637132/12190668/-/g2ilu2/-/index.html

 

[This is The End]

ETA: did I miss the invisible sarcasm tags ?

But the internet says it wasn't raining ? So was it raining or not ?

Way to continue to lie about what I said and pointed out, and corrected you on at least once. But, I guess that's kinda par for the course with you.

This whole was it raining or not argument seems like a fallacy of the excluded middle ground.

I believe the evidence we have so far was that it barely rained for a few minutes. Typical for Florida.

I agree 100%. He should have his bond raised. He has $200k sitting in his paypal account, and O'Mara said his client was of modest means.

Sorry ass lying Zimmerman. Judge should look at his indigent status paperwork that lists any assets, and if he lied on there, he needs to be booked for perjury and have his bond revoked.

I agree and I assume the judge will do so if it happened.

How much money the defendant has available goes to whether or not they are a flight risk.

Also, AFAIK, in some areas if you have enough funds you aren't allowed to get off with just paying 10%.

 

[LTC8K6]

Regarding my wacky idea that TM might have knocked on GZ's truck window:

here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are [you] following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car [window] down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car [window] up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he[Trayvon] started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

"At that point Zimmerman is able to unholster his weapon and fire a shot, striking Trayvon in the chest. Trayvon falls on his back and says, 'You got me.'" The Martin family has been telling their story as part of a campaign to have Zimmerman arrested. He himself has kept quiet.

I think it is the closest version of events we have to the truth.

It's also a decent match for Dee-Dee's info.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

 

[This is The End]

Speaking of which, I know this was discussed earlier in the thread, but don't remember it being answered. Doesn't Omara get to ask the judge to at some point to declare this a valid use of SYG and to throw the case out? Will that likely happen and if so soon? Or not in a another year or two when the trial actually starts?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47180050/ns/local_news-orlando_fl/#.T5s8-atYs_c

The lawyer for the man accused of killing Trayvon Martin said it's too soon to know it they'll claim self-defense under the Stand Your Ground law.

In Florida, if a person is charged with murder and is able to prove Stand Your Ground, then the case will never see trial, and experts said that is what they feel Zimmerman and his team will try and to prove.

Zimmerman will have a special immunity hearing before the case ever goes to trial.-snip-

I assume that if they do not ask for the immunity hearing, or if they have the immunity hearing and are denied, at that point a wrongful death lawsuit (Civil Trial) will be allowed sometime in the future.

Am I correct?

 

[WildCat]

Lawyer: Angela Corey missed deadline to release evidence

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/La...ence/-/1637132/12190668/-/g2ilu2/-/index.html

She'll release the evidence, just as soon as she finds it...

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I think it is the closest version of events we have to the truth:

here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are [you] following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car [window] down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car [window] up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he[Trayvon] started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

"At that point Zimmerman is able to unholster his weapon and fire a shot, striking Trayvon in the chest. Trayvon falls on his back and says, 'You got me.'" The Martin family has been telling their story as part of a campaign to have Zimmerman arrested. He himself has kept quiet.

I bolded the important part. While it's entirely possible that GZ could still have been attacked (assuming his story is true) had he answered that question forthrightly, I almost feel like even if he can legitimately claim self-defense we needs to add a law to the books so we can convict him of PURE stupidity. In that situation you respond that you are part of the neighborhood watch and you try to be friendly and strike up a conversation. You don't deny what the person has figured out and then as soon as they take off get out and head in that direction. IDIOT

 

[This is The End]

I bolded the important part. While it's entirely possible that GZ could still have been attacked (assuming his story is true) had he answered that question forthrightly, I almost feel like even if he can legitimately claim self-defense we needs to add a law to the books so we can convict him of PURE stupidity. In that situation you respond that you are part of the neighborhood watch and you try to be friendly and strike up a conversation. You don't deny what the person has figured out and then as soon as they take off get out and head in that direction. IDIOT

That was not the first, and not the last, of many really dumb decisions Z made in his life. And that's just the ones we know about.

 

[LTC8K6]

I bolded the important part. While it's entirely possible that GZ could still have been attacked (assuming his story is true) had he answered that question forthrightly, I almost feel like even if he can legitimately claim self-defense we needs to add a law to the books so we can convict him of PURE stupidity. In that situation you respond that you are part of the neighborhood watch and you try to be friendly and strike up a conversation. You don't deny what the person has figured out and then as soon as they take off get out and head in that direction. IDIOT

We don't know that the account is precise. It's almost certainly not.

It's third hand at best.

GZ might have tried to explain, but TM left too abruptly, and then when TM began to run, GZ becomes even more sure that TM is suspicious.

In general though, I believe that account is close.

 

[curi0us]

We don't know that the account is precise. It's almost certainly not.

It's third hand at best.

GZ might have tried to explain, but TM left too abruptly, and then when TM began to run, GZ becomes even more sure that TM is suspicious.

In general though, I believe that account is close.

Has anyone besides Mr. Martin reported that GZ's version included that TM knocked on GZ's truck window?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

We don't know that the account is precise. It's almost certainly not.

It's third hand at best.

GZ might have tried to explain, but TM left too abruptly, and then when TM began to run, GZ becomes even more sure that TM is suspicious.

Agreed, it's certainly possible there is more to the story. Including in addition to what GZ has and will recount (i.e. we'll never hear TM's story). I look forward to hearing his entire story and being able to judge how believable it seems.

Part of the problem here is we really don't know much about either of these characters other than the narratives that have been fed to us by the media. IF GZ's story is true, TM was an aggressive hothead. It would be very interesting to know if there is anything else in TM's history that points to that type of behavior, as one of the reasons it's hard to reconcile all of this so far is there isn't. The story would be about 10x as believable if TM had a history of fights.

That's why even though some have tried to suggest that Twitter comment about swinging at a bus driver is grasping at straws (and some evidently think it's racist to even bring it up ), I personally find it much more interesting than him being caught with stolen jewelry and a screwdriver. I'd really like to know what that was about and if there was any truth to it, and if he has any other history of getting into fights.

Queue accusations of racism and wanting to vilify TM....

 

[LTC8K6]

TM may have just been in a bad mood that day, given what was going on in his life.

 

[LTC8K6]

Has anyone besides Mr. Martin reported that GZ's version included that TM knocked on GZ's truck window?

I invented the knocking part as far as I know.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

TM may have just been in a bad mood that day, given what was going on in his life.

Possible. But if GZ's story is true, TM's actions were extreme to the max, extreme to the point that I'd be exceptionally surprised if it was not preceded by a history of some type of similar behavior. Absent such a history (which could still come out over time), it's one of the things that make it really hard for me to reconcile how this happened as GZ says it did, and will continue to make me wonder if we're not missing major parts of the story.