Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Conveniently ignored is the fact that courts typically consider the amount of money at a person's disposal when making that very determination: i.e. how much of a flight risk they are.

And even the shooter's attorney admits the bail might have been higher if the court hadn't been misled.

My statement was based on what I heard attorney's say on television. They stated that 150K was in fact fairly typical for what GZ was charged with and that the judge was not going to change that amount much merely based on what someone could/couldn't afford. Though come to think of it, I also heard one say that the judge would typically not make bail so high that a family could not afford it, if it was an offense that bond would typically be granted for. So who knows. My guess is it wouldn't have been much different. If they are giving the money back now anyhow, it seems irrelevant.

I do think it should have been disclosed, having it come out now does nothing positive for GZ.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

So that Twitter account was real? The one where George was calling for all Sanford white people to "wake up!"?

I know you're not a big fan of backing up anything you say but would you enlighten us as to what you're talking about since you didn't quote anyone remotely related to what you just asserted?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

My statement was based on what I heard attorney's say on television. They stated that 150K was in fact fairly typical for what GZ was charged with and that the judge was not going to change that amount much merely based on what someone could/couldn't afford. Though come to think of it, I also heard one say that the judge would typically not make bail so high that a family could not afford it, if it was an offense that bond would typically be granted for. So who knows. My guess is it wouldn't have been much different. If they are giving the money back now anyhow, it seems irrelevant.

I do think it should have been disclosed, having it come out now does nothing positive for GZ.

Heh. I thought 150,000 was supposedly low for a 2nd degree murder charge.

I am not sure I get what the supposed benefit to GZ was ? Lower bond, therefor more money ? Was it all a trick about keeping more money to ... spend on blow and hookers or something ?

 

[Unabogie]

You forgot to answer my questions about the body. Do you plan on responding ?

Link? It's been a busy week at work.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8233237&highlight=body#post8233237

 

[Unabogie]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8233237&highlight=body#post8233237

You're talking about "how would I describe the body in that photo?"

That tarp looks to me to be 5-10 feet from where the police are standing. It does not appear to me to be close to the sidewalk. If that is his body, and if my distances are correct, then Zimmerman's story has a hole in it.

I said in my first post on this subject that it's hard to ascertain that distance for sure.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Kaosium]

Conveniently ignored is the fact that courts typically consider the amount of money at a person's disposal when making that very determination: i.e. how much of a flight risk they are.

And even the shooter's attorney admits the bail might have been higher if the court hadn't been misled.

So he gets a bunch of money donated to his website that he hasn't seen and odds are won't ever see most of because it will be sucked up by expenses and legal fees anyway.

Then he goes to the bond hearing and lets say he discloses it. Then the next days and weeks more and more money starts pouring in. So what did it really matter if he disclosed it or not? What's the point of all this, if your speculation is correct, will they be wanting weekly updates?

Maybe that or other reasons is why the judge was reported as being not nearly as interested in this as others who don't really know what the story is. Have you ever heard of something like this happening? All of a sudden other people's money donated to a defense fund being used against the defendant to impugn his integrity?

 

[Kaosium]

You're talking about "how would I describe the body in that photo?"

That tarp looks to me to be 5-10 feet from where the police are standing. It does not appear to me to be close to the sidewalk. If that is his body, and if my distances are correct, then Zimmerman's story has a hole in it.

What do you think is incompatible about George's story and the position of the body? Why do you think the police at the scene found his story compatible with the evidence when you think you this qualifies as a 'hole?'

Incidentally, I do not think the concept of the police conspiring to cover up something is implausible, the vast majority of my posts on this site involve another case consisting of exactly that same element. However I've yet to see a piece of relevant evidence that stood scrutiny in this case suggesting there was indeed corruption or gross incompetence by the Sanford PD. That doesn't mean it didn't happen or that evidence isn't out there and I missed it--or it's relevance. What do you think is the best evidence of the police conspiring or totally botching things?

 

[AlBell]

Yeah, right. He'd spent money on living expenses, as disclosed by his atty this morning, and even if he was in jail when more money was pouring in - No one happened to mention to him it happened to accrue to 200K plus??

I don't.think.so.

It's ridiculous on its face.

Who would have had access to his Paypal other than GZ? Plus I doubt an internet connected computer and time to use it is easy to come by in jail.

 

[Unabogie]

What do you think is incompatible about George's story and the position of the body? Why do you think the police at the scene found his story compatible with the evidence when you think you this qualifies as a 'hole?'

Incidentally, I do not think the concept of the police conspiring to cover up something is implausible, the vast majority of my posts on this site involve another case consisting of exactly that same element. However I've yet to see a piece of relevant evidence that stood scrutiny in this case suggesting there was indeed corruption or gross incompetence by the Sanford PD. That doesn't mean it didn't happen or that evidence isn't out there and I missed it--or it's relevance. What do you think is the best evidence of the police conspiring or totally botching things?

Where am I discussing the police or any kind of conspiracy? If the body is far away from the cement sidewalk, then Zimmerman couldn't have shot him as he was having his head beat against it. Seems pretty clear to me. Also, there ought to be blood on the sidewalk from both the shooting and Zimmerman's head. If the body is far away and the blood is over there, then George's story has an obvious problem.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

So that Twitter account was real? The one where George was calling for all Sanford white people to "wake up!"?

So this was you just trolling and making something up out of thin air again, right? I'll take your non-response as a yes.

 

[triforcharity]

ETA: did I miss the invisible sarcasm tags ?

But the internet says it wasn't raining ? So was it raining or not ?

Way to continue to lie about what I said and pointed out, and corrected you on at least once. But, I guess that's kinda par for the course with you.

 

[triforcharity]

Judge Lester orders PayPal information given to the state to decide if this money constitutes a change of circumstance in regards to bail. State is asking for a increase in bail.

I agree 100%. He should have his bond raised. He has $200k sitting in his paypal account, and O'Mara said his client was of modest means.

Sorry ass lying Zimmerman. Judge should look at his indigent status paperwork that lists any assets, and if he lied on there, he needs to be booked for perjury and have his bond revoked.

 

[Kaosium]

Where am I discussing the police or any kind of conspiracy? If the body is far away from the cement sidewalk, then Zimmerman couldn't have shot him as he was having his head beat against it. Seems pretty clear to me.

It's not clear, but I can understand why you might think it. A person shot fatally seldom dies instantly, they can still move and often do, there's chemicals coursing through their body that encourage it. There's no reason I've seen yet that TM might not have jumped or whatever and fell over somewhere else. Note also that was a 9mm round, which has been criticized for its stopping power.

Also, there ought to be blood on the sidewalk from both the shooting and Zimmerman's head. If the body is far away and the blood is over there, then George's story has an obvious problem.

I read somewhere it was like 10' that people were talking about, that's not much reason to think anything strange happened. Is there anything to indicate there's no blood in those locations? It was my understanding that the forensic reports hadn't been released, that would come with discovery under Florida's Sunshine Laws, unless it's blocked for some reason. Do I have that right?

 

[Kaosium]

I agree 100%. He should have his bond raised. He has $200k sitting in his paypal account, and O'Mara said his client was of modest means.

Sorry ass lying Zimmerman. Judge should look at his indigent status paperwork that lists any assets, and if he lied on there, he needs to be booked for perjury and have his bond revoked.

Why do you jump to that conclusion knowing the judge didn't agree and was more familiar with the relevant facts and the law in this matter?

Do you suppose the fact that you jump to that conclusion from what you heard might be why the prosecution made an issue of it? If you were to find out that wasn't the whole story and the judge had a reason, would you find the prosecution's actions misleading and look askance at them for such prejudicial behavior?

 

[Unabogie]

It's not clear, but I can understand why you might think it. A person shot fatally seldom dies instantly, they can still move and often do, there's chemicals coursing through their body that encourage it. There's no reason I've seen yet that TM might not have jumped or whatever and fell over somewhere else. Note also that was a 9mm round, which has been criticized for its stopping power.



I read somewhere it was like 10' that people were talking about, that's not much reason to think anything strange happened. Is there anything to indicate there's no blood in those locations? It was my understanding that the forensic reports hadn't been released, that would come with discovery under Florida's Sunshine Laws, unless it's blocked for some reason. Do I have that right?

Let me help you with your confusion.

Where am I discussing the police or any kind of conspiracy? If the body is far away from the cement sidewalk, then Zimmerman couldn't have shot him as he was having his head beat against it. Seems pretty clear to me. Also, there ought to be blood on the sidewalk from both the shooting and Zimmerman's head. If the body is far away and the blood is over there, then George's story has an obvious problem.

 

[Checkmite]

I'm honestly beginning to wonder if Zimmerman should be declared unfit for trial and committed or something. I mean, if there was anyone in recent history that embodied the words "incapable of assisting in his own defense" it's this man.

 

[triforcharity]

Why do you jump to that conclusion knowing the judge didn't agree and was more familiar with the relevant facts and the law in this matter?

Do you suppose the fact that you jump to that conclusion from what you heard might be why the prosecution made an issue of it? If you were to find out that wasn't the whole story and the judge had a reason, would you find the prosecution's actions misleading and look askance at them for such prejudicial behavior?

Huh? English please. Not sure what that is, but it certainly makes no sense to me.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Also, there ought to be blood on the sidewalk from both the shooting and Zimmerman's head. If the body is far away and the blood is over there, then George's story has an obvious problem.

By God I think you've solved the mystery, you're a regular Columbo or maybe even Sherlock Holmes. Call the Stanford police department stat and offer your services and help them to close this case and get a confession.

 

[WildCat]

What did GZ have in his hand and what was he witnessed doing immediately after the shooting?

I see you're "just asking questions" now.