Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Cylinder]

Gilbreath claims that the physical evidence is inconsistent with the altercation having moved from the sidewalk to another area.

 

[Dancing David]

Then I'll ask you the same thing I have yet to hear a reasonable answer for. Why couldn't TM make it home in the time GZ was on the phone to 911, especially after he said he didn't know where TM was. At that point, TM had to likely travel 250 feet to be safe at home to get away. The fact that he didn't doesn't make any sense to me.

Have you seen a 17yo talking on the phone to their gf, especially if they don't want to talk in front of the family?

 

[Dancing David]

We'll have to disagree, because standing out there seems far from reasonable to me.

How many reasonable 17 year olds are there?

 

[Unabogie]

So the judge kept sustaining objections, but the DA was trying to ask about Zimmerman changing his stories and when confronted by police, saying "I don't remember". Too bad they couldn't dig into that.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Have you seen a 17yo talking on the phone to their gf, especially if they don't want to talk in front of the family?

I understand teenagers are strange beasts.

And yes, I know what they are like on the phone, but his father and his fiance were not home, they had gone to dinner, and he knew that.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

How many reasonable 17 year olds are there?

I can only take that so far. Yes, teenagers do dumb and/or unreasonable things.
Not calling 911.
Attacking someone who follows them ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

$150,000 bond, with monitoring, etc.

ETA: GZ can reside out of state
ETA: needs to be worked out with SA

ETA:Judge seems like he anxious to get all the evidence into the hands of the media that they are requesting, after redacting addresses, etc.
ETA: redacted police reports, not *all* evidence I guess

 

[Cylinder]

$150,000 bond. Wow.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

150K bail.

 

[Unabogie]

So both sides want to keep witness statements sealed? Sounds like we won't get facts until there's a trial.

 

[KatieG]

$150,000 bond, with monitoring, etc.

ETA: GZ can reside out of state

ETA:Judge seems like he anxious to get all the evidence into the hands of the media that they are requesting, after redacting addresses, etc.

The judge did not give him permission to go out state yet. The SA and defense need to work that out. Defense must provide SA with the plan, subject to SA approval.

 

[Cylinder]

So both sides want to keep witness statements sealed? Sounds like we won't get facts until there's a trial.

The redacted police files will be released, though - so there should be some new information.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

The legal commentator on the station I am listening to says the state made a huge mistake by not just admitting he had a right to bond, because it allowed Omara to question the lead investigator who was not well prepared.

 

[bonzombiekitty]

If you believe he was on the phone with the GF, then you might as well go with what she says, which was TM spoke to GZ first, it wasn't really out of the blue.

Yeah, it wouldn't at all surprise me if that was indeed the case. I can easily see TM getting fed up with the person following him and saying "why are you following me?"

Again, not the best thing to do, but not an unreasonable reaction.

I agree that it's going to be hard to show who actually started the physical confrontation and exactly what went happened since the only other witness is dead. So we are going on a lot of speculation. I just think that given what we know about Z's state of mind at the time, I find it really unlikely that TM is the one who gets the blame for starting the physical confrontation. You got one kid walking home from the store, talking to his GF and a guy who is following someone who is, in his mind, a suspicious person and has expressed a complaint that those "******** always get away". I certainly find the idea of TM attacking Z from behind (as has been mentioned before, I forget if it was Z himself or his father who brought that up) implausible - if the GF is telling the truth, then the whole fight started right when the phone went dead.

If I had to bet, I'd bet that TM realized Z was still following him, then he and Z had a verbal confrontation. Z, tired of those "******** always getting away", attempted to restrain TM until the cops showed up, TM fought back, Z started losing the fight and, in fear for his safety, shot TM.

I don't think Z entered the situation intending to shoot TM, just that he was probably over confident and the situation got out of his control. In my mind, that's manslaughter not 2nd degree murder.

I'm not on an actual jury, so I'm not saying Z is certainly guilty. Just that, in my view, he is most likely to be the one to blame. I think the state has reasonable grounds to bring charges against him, and Z should not be able to avoid trial based on SYG, and if he can avoid trial based on SYG, there's either something we're not being told or the SYG law is completely messed up.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The judge did not give him permission to go out state yet. The SA and defense need to work that out. Defense must provide SA with the plan, subject to SA approval.

Edited my post to try to be more accurate.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The legal commentator on the station I am listening to says the state made a huge mistake by not just admitting he had a right to bond, because it allowed Omara to question the lead investigator who was not well prepared.

He looked horribly unprepared on the stand, and seemed to make statements that really could help the defense.

 

[crimresearch]

The judge did not give him permission to go out state yet. The SA and defense need to work that out. Defense must provide SA with the plan, subject to SA approval.

Would you please answer my question?

 

[KatieG]

As a blanket statement, that is simply not true under the law, or common sense...
you don't get to punch out anyone who follows you simply for following you, or even for asking you a question.

You can drop the 'tude. But here's your answer. My read on your statement is you think TM threw the first punch since he was the one being followed.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I've said this before, but as much as people want to claim that tailing random people is perfectly acceptable behavior, it's not. It's threatening behavior, and if Zimmerman got within striking distance while doing so, then it was Martin who was defending himself by throwing the first punch - and I see no problem with him doing so. And the story where Zimmerman was just looking for a street sign, and somehow ended up being attacked in an open walkway between houses, is laughable. If that's Zimmerman's story, then he's lying.

As a blanket statement, that is simply not true under the law, or common sense...
you don't get to punch out anyone who follows you simply for following you, or even for asking you a question.

You can drop the 'tude. But here's your answer. My read on your statement is you think TM threw the first punch since he was the one being followed.

He's perfectly capable of defending himself but if there's one thing that drives me nuts it's when people start purposely misrepresenting what someone else said. Your "read" is wrong, that should be clear if you bothered to read the statement he was responding to. He was simply making a dispassionate explanation of the law. And if that statement was not clear enough you have a hundred others from him to go off of.

 

[RandFan]

$150,000 bond, with monitoring, etc.

ETA: GZ can reside out of state
ETA: needs to be worked out with SA

ETA:Judge seems like he anxious to get all the evidence into the hands of the media that they are requesting, after redacting addresses, etc.
ETA: redacted police reports, not *all* evidence I guess

$150,000 bond. Wow.

Based on my uneducated understanding, the courts should only take into account flight risk to determine bond and monitoring, but I'm guessing that this may help assuage public outrage which has taken on a life of its own.