The root cause of Africa's problems?

[Humes fork]

No modern anthropologist, sociologist, or historian buys into the idea of "superior vs. inferior cultures." The thinly-veiled racism of that sort of ethnocentrism went out of fashion in the early 20th century, and the final nail in its coffin was administered by the brutality of the Nazi regime*.



* That is not a Godwin. Cultural superiority of the "Aryan race" was a central part of Nazi ideology.

Nazism was based on racial supremacism.

150 years and before, Sweden was a very poor country. In 1840 its GDP/capita was only 40% of the British GDP/capita. A third of the population emigrated during the 19th century, mostly to the US.

However, between 1870 and 1970, Sweden transformed and became one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Why was that? Was it because the institutions and policies adopted? Or was it because some animals migrated here, as the theory of someone in this thread predicts? While staying out of the world wars obviously helped, most of the countries that were war-torn are on our level today, and have been for decades.

Your message to Africans is that they have no hope, might as well stop trying to improve their situation. The reality is that they can adopt our institutions and be prosperous too.

Again, look at the graphs. There is no point in denying the importance of culture. Why do you think the euro crisis is restricted to southern Europe? Why is southern Europe more corrupt than northern Europe.

 

[Cleon]

Your message to Africans is that they have no hope, might as well stop trying to improve their situation.

Well, if you're just going to make **** up, then clearly we don't need to bother with facts.

 

[Humes fork]

Ok, what's your explanation then? The animals? Or something else?

 

[Tony]

You do know that quite a few Islamic countries, that are governed in morally reprehensible ways, are also quite prosperous?

Because they are lucky enough to be sitting on billions of barrels of oil. Which they need evil Western technology to extract. The Beverly Hillbillies were prosperous too, but not because of their talents and ideas.

 

[portlandatheist]

"Do you have a flag?"

For those that don't get the reference:

 

[Earthborn]

Ok, what's your explanation then?

There is no single explanation for the "problems of Africa" for 3 reasons:

1. Problems tend to have more than one cause.
2. Nations everywhere tend to have more than one problem.
3. Different nations tend to have different sets of problems.

... but perhaps one of the root causes of Africa's problems is the inability of many Westerners to see Africa as a huge continent with very diverse circumstances, cultures, political systems, histories, who'd rather look for an imaginary "root cause" of all those nations' problems.

Your message to Africans is that they have no hope, might as well stop trying to improve their situation.

Some of us recognise that there are nations in Africa that are actually successful at improving their situation, and are doing relatively well.

The reality is that they can adopt our institutions and be prosperous too.

There is no reason to assume that "our institutions" are universally applicable regardless of local circumstances.

Again, look at the graphs. There is no point in denying the importance of culture.

The graphs tell us nothing about culture, because the groups studied are not even identified by culture; just "race".

I always suspicious of the use of bar graphs when showing averages, instead of more informative box plots.

 

[Tony]

No modern anthropologist, sociologist, or historian buys into the idea of "superior vs. inferior cultures."

What are their metrics for concluding that all cultures are on the same level?

 

[Juniversal]

After all this discussion nobody has bothered to talk about the state of Africa before colonialism. My knowledge of African history is scant at best. If much of Sub-Saharan Africa was made of hunter gatherer societies i'd imagine an alien European culture shoe horned into the society would create a dramatic social upheaval. I'm sure if you were to do the same with most other tribal cultures you'd get a similar result (if you don't exterminate or absorb much of the original population that is).

With other populations effected by Colonialism, Europeans either replaced or greatly diminished the original populations (i.e. America and Australia for example) or absorbed them (as with Mexico and many other nations of South America).

Africa is unique in that the original population remained after colonialism and didn't benefit from the infrastructure and stability provided by the sustained presence of the European founder populations like in America or Canada.

 

[portlandatheist]

I would highly recommend Hans Roslings TED Talk and Jared Diamonds book "Guns, Germs, and Steel".
And yes, culture does matter:
compare the Dominican Republic vs Haiti, North vs. South Korea, East vs West Germany, The USA vs Mexico, Israel vs. its neighbors, etc. and why not mention Israel? Yes, it is subsidized but there is also a reason Intel processors are made there as opposed to say Jordan.
I also think that Political corruption plays a huge part in the success/failure of countries. Even if a country has a good democracy in theory, it can be totally ruined by corruption and this seems to be a chicken and egg problem sometimes where good money after bad can be sent to help a struggling country but it does no good with a bad government but then you need money and aid in order to have a well functioning government. Subsidies are also a mixed blessing, for example, food aid can undermine the livelihood of local farmers and make farming an unwelcome profession which doesn't get at the core of the problem either. Its cliche but there's no silver bullet for Africa, lots of different and unique challenges such as HIV, etc.

 

[Cleon]

No modern anthropologist, sociologist, or historian buys into the idea of "superior vs. inferior cultures."

What are their metrics for concluding that all cultures are on the same level?

There is no "level."

 

[Cleon]

There is no single explanation for the "problems of Africa" for 3 reasons:

1. Problems tend to have more than one cause.
2. Nations everywhere tend to have more than one problem.
3. Different nations tend to have different sets of problems.

... but perhaps one of the root causes of Africa's problems is the inability of many Westerners to see Africa as a huge continent with very diverse circumstances, cultures, political systems, histories, who'd rather look for an imaginary "root cause" of all those nations' problems.

It's way easier to just hand-wave it away.

History? Economics? Politics? Complicated situations, with complicated reasons behind them?

Nah. Just "bad culture."

 

[Tony]

There is no "level."

If no culture is superior or inferior to another, it stands to reason that they are all on par with each other.

 

[Cleon]

If no culture is superior or inferior to another, it stands to reason that they are all on par with each other.

If an apple isn't superior to a head of lettuce, it stands to reason that they are on par with each other.

 

[Tony]

If an apple isn't superior to a head of lettuce, it stands to reason that they are on par with each other.

If you are going to make a false analogy, at least have it make sense. Between an apple and a head of lettuce, one of them will be superior, either in taste or nutritional content. Care to address the question instead of playing these games?

 

[Cleon]

If you are going to make a false analogy, at least have it make sense. Between an apple and a head of lettuce, one of them will be superior, either in taste or nutritional content.

"In taste or nutritional content?" No. One is superior to the other, across the board, or they are equal.Unless your assumptions are wrong.

Care to address the question instead of playing these games?

No, because the premise is rejected. Have I not been clear about that?

 

[Tony]

"In taste or nutritional content?" No.

Yes

One is superior to the other, across the board, or they are equal.

Not true. A head of lettuce might be superior for using as a soccer ball while an apple may have superior nutritional content. Judging superiority is always going to be subject to a criteria. Wouldn't a criteria also be used to conclude that no culture was superior or inferior to another? If so, what is that criteria?

No, because the premise is rejected. Have I not been clear about that?

You've made an unsubstantiated claim about various fields (which I didn't bother to call you on) and then failed to explain the reasoning people working in those fields use to come to their conclusions.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Nazism was based on racial supremacism.

150 years and before, Sweden was a very poor country. In 1840 its GDP/capita was only 40% of the British GDP/capita. A third of the population emigrated during the 19th century, mostly to the US.

However, between 1870 and 1970, Sweden transformed and became one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Why was that? Was it because the institutions and policies adopted? Or was it because some animals migrated here, as the theory of someone in this thread predicts? While staying out of the world wars obviously helped, most of the countries that were war-torn are on our level today, and have been for decades.

Your message to Africans is that they have no hope, might as well stop trying to improve their situation. The reality is that they can adopt our institutions and be prosperous too.

Again, look at the graphs. There is no point in denying the importance of culture. Why do you think the euro crisis is restricted to southern Europe? Why is southern Europe more corrupt than northern Europe.

[qimg]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-EMpadQx4hM/TR0vXpkUahI/AAAAAAAAAZI/xPzTJT8u70w/s1600/hours.png[/qimg]

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/79/Personal_income_race.png/365px-Personal_income_race.png[/qimg]

Balance for socioeconomic factors?

 

[Cleon]

You've made an unsubstantiated claim about various fields (which I didn't bother to call you on)

and then failed to explain the reasoning people working in those fields use to come to their conclusions.

Erm...No. The "conclusion" in question - that "all cultures are on the same level" - is something you introduced. I have no obligation to explain why science fails to explain a strawman.

 

[Tony]

Erm...No. The "conclusion" in question - that "all cultures are on the same level" - is something you introduced. I have no obligation to explain why science fails to explain a strawman.

You introduced it, I simply described it.

 

[Cleon]

You introduced it, I simply described it.

Get back to me when you feel like accurately describing what I post.