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The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

tsig said:
You had to attend West Point, class of 1915.

"The class the stars fell on" is an expression used to describe the United States Military Academy class of 1915.[1] In the U.S. Army, the insignia reserved for generals is one or more stars. Of the 164 graduates that year, 59 (36%) attained the rank of general, the most of any class in the history of the United States Military Academy .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_class_the_stars_fell_on
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There are about 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. I wonder if Doc can explain how they are all going to fall on this tiny speck called Earth?
 
DOC said:
Christ did say no man, including himself, knows the day or the hour of the end of the world. The "may" wording is consistent with Christ's statement that no one knows the time. But he also warned to stay vigilant because it will come like a thief in the night.
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Further to this, this is what Thayer's Greek lexicon says about the conjunction ὅταν used in Mark 13:29:
ὅταν, a particle of time, compound of ὅτε and ἄν, at the time that, whenever (German dannwann;wannirgend); used of things which one assumes will really occur, but the time of whose occurrence he does not definitely fix
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So yes, Christ assumed really the end of times would occur, during his apostles' lifetime.
 
DOC said:
Here is Mark 13: 29,30 by Young's Literal Translation which is the literal translation of the original Greek:

"so ye, also, when these ye may see coming to pass, ye know that it is nigh, at the doors.

Verily I say to you, that this generation may not pass away till all these things may come to pass;"

Notice the literal translation "may" in both verses.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark 13&version=YLT

Here is information on Young's Literal translation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young's_Literal_Translation

________

On another note, Norman Geisler points out that the Greek word for "generation" can also be translated as race. So Christ could be saying this Jewish race shall not pass away until the end of the world.
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Doc. if the very words of the bible can be changed at will then you are standing on quicksand.
 
A friend of mine had a very bad acid trip back in the sixties. He never really recovered from it. He told me about it and it was very similar to the drug induced nonsense in Revelation.
 
tsig said:
Doc. if the very words of the bible can be changed at will then you are standing on quicksand.
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He's just shopping around in the various bible translations to find one that gives him an out. I can't remember him quoting this particular translation before. Seems he hasn't learned from the Luke 2:1-2 disaster in the "evidence of the NT" thread.
 
Notice the literal translation "may" in both verses.
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"May" in this context is a "weasel word"*.

How demeaning for a deity to stoop that low.

But nice of you to defend him/her.


*one trick I was taught was that whenever you see a claim that something "may" do something, mentally add "or may not". So God says something may come to pass. Or may not. Fertile ground for apologists.
 
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DOC said:
This is spamming (as you have done before). I've already responded to all of these, some in several posts. I'm not going to repeat myself.
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No, my post #1929 was not spamming. It was calling you to account. Also, to my knowledge you have not responded to John 5:25 - 29. However, if you are asserting that the whole thing is pointless, I agree. You have asserted that these are incredibly fulfilled prophecies. We have refuted your claims. History, archaeology and even simple interpretation of the Biblical verses as they were written demonstrate that your claims are false. You, of course, don't accept this. It's really pointless to continue. Don't you agree, DOC, that, after 50 pages, it's time for this thread to come to an end?
 
DOC said:
Christ did say no man, including himself, knows the day or the hour of the end of the world. The "may" wording is consistent with Christ's statement that no one knows the time.
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Either you're wrong in your reading of the word "may", in which case the prophecy isn't fulfilled, or you're correct, in which case it's not a prophesy.

Just as a hint though, you're wrong.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I doubt your doubt.

How about another category in the poll: I have heard the gospel and rejected it?

I'll go first.

Just 999,999,999 to go for the first billion!
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Well you can plonk me in there. And you can also add the 420 people of the Pirahã who have also rejected the gospel.

So we need another 999 999 578 people for that first billion.
 
DOC said:
Here is Mark 13: 29,30 by Young's Literal Translation which is the literal translation of the original Greek:

"so ye, also, when these ye may see coming to pass, ye know that it is nigh, at the doors.

Verily I say to you, that this generation may not pass away till all these things may come to pass;"

Notice the literal translation "may" in both verses.
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DOC, let me remind you that you started this thread by asserting that Bible prophecies were fulfilled against odds of 1 to >10^2,000. No wonder, if predicting that something may happen is counted as a prophecy! The "hit" rate should be infinite.

Verily I say unto you, it's quite possible that x may happen, or it may not ... What sort of prophet is that?

DOC, surely you realise that this is too ridiculous for words; and it will serve to bring Bibliolatrous religion into contemptuous disrepute. Which is what it deserves, to be honest.
 
dafydd said:
Judging by the Book Of Revelation they [shrooms] must have been John's staple diet.
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Still, apparently that situation was taken into hand, if this historical document is to be trusted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukG_...DvjVQa1PpcFMbhXFhOH2_DDkpQMWJPy3sEI2jWrd0bhU=



DOC said:
Here is Mark 13: 29,30 by Young's Literal Translation which is the literal translation of the original Greek:...
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The original Greek?
The original Greek that Jesus spoke?


DOC said:
On another note, Norman Geisler points out that the Greek word for "generation" can also be translated as race. So Christ could be saying this Jewish race shall not pass away until the end of the world.
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Geisler, Geisler.
Where have I read that name before? :confused:

DOC said:
This is spamming (as you have done before). I've already responded to all of these, some in several posts. I'm not going to repeat myself.
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Actually, I think it would be interesting to see a resumen of your reasons, rather than your assertion these objections have been answered.
As for repeating yourself, DOC, that shouldn't be a problem.
After all, you want to convince people of your point of view, don't you?
 
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dafydd said:
The bible says soon, Doc. Which part of that sentence do you not understand?...
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That is one translation of many. For example here is what the author of over 60 books, Norman Geisler, says about the issue of Revelation 1:1 in his book "Systematic Theology" Volume 4 page 640:

"First, the word translated "shortly" (Revelation 1:1; 26:6 NKJV) is "tachei" which is from the same root as tachu and also means "swiftly" or "speedily." As such, it refers to a "sudden" but not necessarily "soon" event."

The Rice Reference Bible which is a very good bible with many scholarly footnotes says something similar to Geisler regarding the King James Translation of Rev. 1:1. It says:

"This does not mean of course "immediately" or "so soon" but "suddenly, without warning." And also in V. 3 "the time is at hand." It refers to the imminent coming of Christ, which might occur any moment unannounced. That has been true ever since Pentecost."

Rice Reference Bible Page 1347, 1st footnote.
 
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Geisler, Geisler.
Where have I read that name before?

DOC, isn't it curious you're willing to research Geisler's take on the 'soon' but not reference your own posts which rebutt the assertion of those unfulfilled bibical prophecies?

It's not an evasive tactic on your part, is it?
 
DOC said:
That is one translation of many. For example here is what the author of over 60 books, Norman Geisler, says about the issue of Revelation 1:1 in his book "Systematic Theology" Volume 4 page 640:

"First, the word translated "shortly" (Revelation 1:1; 26:6 NKJV) is "tachei" which is from the same root as tachu and also means "swiftly" or "speedily." As such, it refers to a "sudden" but not necessarily "soon" event."

The Rice Reference Bible which is a very good bible with many scholarly footnotes says something similar to Geisler regarding the King James Translation of Rev. 1:1. It says:

"This does not mean of course "immediately" or "so soon" but "suddenly, without warning." And also in V. 3 "the time is at hand." It refers to the imminent coming of Christ, which might occur any moment unannounced. That has been true ever since Pentecost."

Rice Reference Bible Page 1347 1st footnote.
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It hasn't been true ever since Jesus died. How are the stars going to fall to Earth? Your silly book says that.
 
DOC said:
That is one translation of many. For example here is what the author of over 60 books, Norman Geisler, says about the issue of Revelation 1:1 in his book "Systematic Theology" Volume 4 page 640:

"First, the word translated "shortly" (Revelation 1:1; 26:6 NKJV) is "tachei" which is from the same root as tachu and also means "swiftly" or "speedily." As such, it refers to a "sudden" but not necessarily "soon" event."
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DOC, how does a 1000 years happen swiftly or speedily?
 
pakeha said:
Geisler, Geisler.
Where have I read that name before?

DOC, isn't it curious you're willing to research Geisler's take on the 'soon' but not reference your own posts which rebutt the assertion of those unfulfilled bibical prophecies?

It's not an evasive tactic on your part, is it?
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DOC said:
Probably in this thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124603
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See, DOC?
That wasn't so difficult, now was it?
Now would be a good moment to reference your reasons why you think you've countered those assertions about the unfulfilled bibical prophecies.
You don't want any new readers of this thread to think you don't remember what you wrote on the subject, do you?
 
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