Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[dudalb]

Yes

I am betting though, that if the judge has descreation he is not going to allow cameras in the courtroom for this case.

 

[RandFan]

I think there is enough reasonable doubt * that no charge will get a "guilty". Basically, it's a political decission to prosecute, and at least they can say they tried, which is better than appearing to do nothing.


* Unless there is undisclosed evidence that removes doubt, that the first prosecuter didn't know about.

It could have been political for the prosecution not to file charges in the first place.

The Miami Herald reports the Sanford Police Department, at the conclusion of its Trayvon Martin murder investigation, recommended that the prosecutor file charges against the shooter George Zimmerman.

I'd like to think that the prosecutor decided not to file because he/she is responsible and having weighed the evidence thinks there is insufficient evidence. Then again, filing charges could have elicited more information for Zimmerman. We will never know.

 

[dudalb]

Really the police beat the crap out of somebody on video?

Nah, where the verdict caused a riot because of the racial tensions raised.
Anybody who thinks that is not something to be concerned about here is a fool.

 

[The Greater Fool]

It could have been political for the prosecution not to file charges in the first place.

Agreed, but a different political goal. The original prosecuter chose not to prosecute a loser as it would harm his/her conviction rate, which would come up at next election. The special prosector was set up so the loss wouldn't count against anyone that needed electing.

 

[RandFan]

Agreed, but a different political goal. The original prosecuter chose not to prosecute a loser as it would harm his/her conviction rate, which would come up at next election. The special prosector was set up so the loss wouldn't count against anyone that needed electing.

I can't think of a rebuttal off the top of my head. Good point.

 

[The Greater Fool]

I can't think of a rebuttal off the top of my head. Good point.

For some reason, I suddenly feel very close to you

 

[portlandatheist]

I've seen this around the intertubes:
http://www.therealgeorgezimmerman.com/
If this is actually really from George Zimmerman, then I say guilty as charged

 

[leftysergeant]

Z created a situation which led to a killing. That much is clear. Whether he intended to kill Martin at the outset or not is the only thing that needs to be considered. It is entirely his fault that Martin is dead.

Exactly what the forensic science says about his position when he fired is all that needs to be established to determine whether it was murder or manslaughter. If he had Martin down, or both were standing when he fired, I would have to favor murder 2. If Martin had him down and was trying to take away his weapon (which he was TOTALLY entitled to do, under the theory of self-defense) it is manslaughter.

 

[Xulld]

I'm skeptical that the prosecution can make a case beyond a reasonable doubt. But then my understanding is incomplete.

I agree, and it makes it all the more interesting why the charges are being pursued. Either they know something we do not, or its political.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Arrested! GZ is in custody according to MSNBC.

So, we have charges and an arrest. Anyone want to update their positions?

 

[sgtbaker]

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...s/articles/cfn/2012/4/11/trayvon_martin_zimme

2nd degree murder

An official tells the Associated Press that George Zimmerman will be charged with second-degree murder in Trayvon Martin’s death, and Zimmerman is in custody.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Arrested! GZ is in custody according to MSNBC.

So, we have charges and an arrest. Anyone want to update their positions?

Perhaps after seeing the evidence used to determine the charge.

 

[sgtbaker]

Perhaps after seeing the evidence used to determine the charge.

Evidence? We don't need to stinking evidence!

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Arrested! GZ is in custody according to MSNBC.

So, we have charges and an arrest. Anyone want to update their positions?

I've found your comments on this topic as effective at damning Zimmerman as his lawyers were of polishing his reputation.

 

[WildCat]

So what's it going to be? I'll say manslaughter (or whatever the equivalent is in Florida). I just don't think they can make a murder charge stick.

They would have had to have a grand jury decide murder, so it's going to be manslaughter.

 

[sgtbaker]

They would have had to have a grand jury decide murder, so it's going to be manslaughter.

Only 1st. He's been charged with 2nd. No need for a GJ.

 

[WildCat]

The metric of the rest of the world?

I'm sorry, but I asked for the metrics on this. I want to know exactly what the criteria is for establishing this statement.

So could you please link to the appropriate study by which you base your claim?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I can't think of a rebuttal off the top of my head. Good point.

I can rebut it.

It assumes a political motive not in evidence. Not saying there isn't a political motive mind you. But why assume the evidence supports GZ's case and the prosecutor didn't want to put a lost case on his record?

It makes just as much sense Wolfinger was either helping the son of a judge, OR, didn't want to prosecute a neighborhood watch volunteer who shot a black teen (there is supposedly evidence of racism in the area), OR, he simply sides with GZ personally like a lot of the right wingers seem to be doing.

This is interesting. I included other parts about Wolfinger getting wrongful convictions, not letting people off but the end of the quote addresses TGF.

Why I haven’t trusted Norm Wolfinger – long before Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman

It stems back to a string of wrongful convictions in Wolfinger’s district … convictions that were overturned despite Wolfinger’s best actions (and inaction) to make sure they were not.

For those who aren’t familiar with these stories, I’ve attached one of my past columns on the topic below. But the general gist is this:

Back in the 80s, law enforcement in Brevard County routinely brought in a charlatan “expert witness” to lie about evidence to help get convictions. (The fact that he was a charlatan is not debatable. It was later proven in court. And the ”expert,” dog-handler John Preston, was banned from testifying in the county.) Immediately, the state should have conducted an independent, external review of all the cases in which Preston helped get convictions.

But they didn’t.

Instead, State Attorney Norm Wolfinger claimed to do a “review” of all the cases himself … and declared all of the other convictions were just.

Except they weren’t.

Scientific evidence later exonerated two more men – Bill Dillon and Wilton Dedge. Both men spent more than two decades behind bars for crimes they didn’t commit.

Wolfinger apologized to Dedge. He’s been unwilling to concede Dillon’s innocence. Most importantly, though, still do this day – as he prepares to retire from office after 28 years - Wolfinger he still refuses to call for an independent investigation into the other cases.

Guess that pretty much rebuts TGF's hypothesis.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I've found your comments on this topic as effective at damning Zimmerman as his lawyers were of polishing his reputation.

Not sure how to interpret this comment but I'm content with my position in my posts.

Among other things, the location and timing do not support GZ's story.
GZ's unsupported story suggests he had a motive to deceive.

Very little has supported GZ's claims and the rest is consistent with his guilt. Oh well.

 

[This is The End]

Breaking news: Zimmerman to be charged in Martin case.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...man-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-case?lite

Toot my own horn, I nailed it first (at least on the JREF forums).

If that prosecutor is canceling the grand jury tomorrow, I would say that pretty much guarantees there are going to be charges.

My reasoning is, if the prosecutor canceled the grand jury and then didn't press charges, people would be questioning whether or not the grand jury would have done the same.

So, I assume the prosecutor has already made the decision to press charges.

Anyway, the point still stands that if the prosecutor doesn't press charges now there will be a huge up-rage about her canceling the grand jury. People will say maybe the grand jury would have issued charges.

So this pretty much guarantees that charges will be filed.