Merged Roosevelt's Rotten Record:Communism, Treachery, Betrayal

[BravesFan]

The best thing about the English is how they haven't allowed themselves to be convinced that the Victorian era ended. it's still business as usual "Oh yes we own half the globe darling!" "SPLENDID!!"




ETA the italics to show where I was shamed into self correction

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The best thing about the British is how they haven't allowed themselves to be convinced that the Victorian era ended. it's still business as usual "Oh yes we own half the globe darling!" "SPLENDID!!"

 

[dafydd]

The best thing about the British English is how they haven't allowed themselves to be convinced that the Victorian era ended. it's still business as usual "Oh yes we own half the globe darling!" "SPLENDID!!"

ftfy
"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life."-Cecil Rhodes.

Sob, I'm only half Welsh and half Scottish.

 

[SpitfireIX]

ftfy
"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life."-Cecil Rhodes.

Sob, I'm only half Welsh and half Scottish.

"The British people comprise four races: the English, who consider themselves a race of self-made men, thereby relieving the Almighty of a dreadful responsibility; the Welsh, who pray on their knees, and on their neighbors; the Scots, who keep the Sabbath, and anything else they can lay their hands on; and the Irish, who don't know what they want, but they'll fight to the death for it."

 

[Border Reiver]

"The British people comprise four races: the English, who consider themselves a race of self-made men, thereby relieving the Almighty of a dreadful responsibility; the Welsh, who pray on their knees, and on their neighbors; the Scots, who keep the Sabbath, and anything else they can lay their hands on; and the Irish, who don't know what they want, but they'll fight to the death for it."

And my family ancestry is English/Scottish coming to Canada by way of Ireland - I can have the most wonderful arguments with myself.

 

[CORed]

I'm not posting for his benefit. I'm posting for the benefit of any lurkers who may read this thread. It is to those silent observers to whom I really direct my posts, so that they may have the factually and contextually accurate information on the topics we are discussing here.

I understand, but any lurkers who can't figure out after one or two posts that SHC is FOS are probably beyond help.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I understand, but any lurkers who can't figure out after one or two posts that SHC is FOS are probably beyond help.

That's not the point, the point is take inane babblings and turn them into something interesting and informative.

 

[BazBear]

That's not the point, the point is take inane babblings and turn them into something interesting and informative.

I agree. Over the years, I've learned a great deal about many subjects from watching CTs debated on internet forums. Obviously most of the information is about subjects and events related to the CT under discussion, but many times it's learning about things not even directly related.

 

[Spindrift]

That's not the point, the point is take inane babblings and turn them into something interesting and informative.

That is what keeps threads like this entertaining. I know I learn things and as a bonus it's fun to watch someone try to dance their way through the minefield of misstatements they've laid. The whole "You guys are just stupid with your facts and all. I just have to say your facts are wrong and I win." mentality can be tedious but lots of information from people who really know what they are talking about can be found in even the most-trollish of threads.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's most fun when one or more people know a huge amount more about the event than the CTer.

(This isn't hard in the current case, the proponent only has a line or two on the Google page to work with as he doesn't follow links.)

 

[dudalb]

So I missed out on the 'action' of a couple of pages. I see SHC tried to invoked the Treaty of Versaille pity party.

No. Just....No.

Any claim that the Nazis were only interested in correcting the more unjust clauses of the Treaty of Versailles (and Germany did have some legitimate grivences there) went out the window when they took over Czechslovakia in the spring of 1939. After that the Nazi goals were clear;German Domination and Rule over Europe. The only thing left unclear was to what extremes the Nazis would go to bring into reality their Racial fantasies of a "Aryan Europe".

 

[Garrison]

Here's my two cents worth. If the Allies make it clear they won't under any circumstances bomb civilians what does the Third Reich do? They move civilians as human shields around every military target. Its one of the dilemmas of war, you may have to compromise the ideals you are fighting for to prevent the enemy destroying them altogether.

 

[Craig4]

So I missed out on the 'action' of a couple of pages. I see SHC tried to invoked the Treaty of Versaille pity party.

No. Just....No.

I'm always darkly amused when this comes up. Why is it they no one looks at the German behavior after the Franco/Prussian War where the Germans forced the French to pay for the war and took Alsace Lorraine. The annexation of French territory in 1871 had a direct tie into the start of the WWI. Germany had very little right to complain over Versaille when they set the precedent in 1871.

 

[Craig4]

Here's my two cents worth. If the Allies make it clear they won't under any circumstances bomb civilians what does the Third Reich do? They move civilians as human shields around every military target. Its one of the dilemmas of war, you may have to compromise the ideals you are fighting for to prevent the enemy destroying them altogether.

Or better question, why were so many civilians and other noncombatants living in such close proximity to industrial centers?

 

[Hans]

I'm always darkly amused when this comes up. Why is it they no one looks at the German behavior after the Franco/Prussian War where the Germans forced the French to pay for the war and took Alsace Lorraine. The annexation of French territory in 1871 had a direct tie into the start of the WWI. Germany had very little right to complain over Versaille when they set the precedent in 1871.

War reparations were a 'normal' part of war - it was once called tribute.

 

[Corsair 115]

Or better question, why were so many civilians and other noncombatants living in such close proximity to industrial centers?

Well, cities back then weren't like what they are today. Suburbs didn't really exist back then, or at least not at all like they do today. Plus at the heart of almost every European city was a railway station, and that particular bit of transportation infrastructure was always a prime target.

 

[ddt]

The USAF didn't drop carpets.

And there I always thought that "carpet bombing" meant the bombs were delivered from flying carpets. Thanks for correcting me.

Well, cities back then weren't like what they are today. Suburbs didn't really exist back then, or at least not at all like they do today. Plus at the heart of almost every European city was a railway station, and that particular bit of transportation infrastructure was always a prime target.

Yes and Dresden was also a major railway hub.

 

[Tomtomkent]

How do you hang ashes? I just saw the post where SHC wants to shoot FDR, burn him THEN hang him?

I think the attention to detail is a microcosm of this conversation.

 

[kookbreaker]

War reparations were a 'normal' part of war - it was once called tribute.

Indeed.

That being said look at the terms that ended WW1 on the Eastern front in the Brest-Litovsk treaty and most sympathy for the conditions of the Versaille treaty fall by the wayside.

 

[erwinl]

Indeed.

That being said look at the terms that ended WW1 on the Eastern front in the Brest-Litovsk treaty and most sympathy for the conditions of the Versaille treaty fall by the wayside.

True, but that doesn't take away the faults in the Versaille Treaty.

Of course nobody can look into the future and none of the people then present could have predicted a person like Hitler and his NSDAP rising in Germany (including Hitler himself) and the horror they would inflict on Europe.

If the peace treaty clearly harbours the seeds for a future conflict/war in the forseeable future, I think a new look has to be taken at the wisdom of the terms of this peace treaty.
What would a better Versailles Treaty, supposing the wish/need for punishing Germany foor needlessly invading Belgium and France, while not making Germany want to have revanche, have looked like?
I don't know. That is something worthy of discussion.