Merged Roosevelt's Rotten Record:Communism, Treachery, Betrayal

[catsmate]

So you are unaware the US was in the isolationist camp prior to Pearl Harbor?

Amazing

As you've been shown before this simply isn't true. Yet you repeat the lie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

Are you aware the United States made steps away from isolationist policy, which dominated United States foreign relations since World War I, before 7 Dec? How is that Missiles at Ground Zero delusion going?

Guess what would fill history books?

Given that MaGZ has popped up in the lend-lease thread he should be aware of it. Of course in that thread he's saying supporting the Soviet Union was immoral.......

 

[Andy_Ross]

As for the Germans capturing foreign ships. That was the very reason for the RN shelling the French Fleet after their surrender. Germany would have had no problem building a fleet with all the resources of Europe and Russia under its control, to think anything else is stupid.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As for the Germans capturing foreign ships. That was the very reason for the RN shelling the French Fleet after their surrender. Germany would have had no problem building a fleet with all the resources of Europe and Russia under its control, to think anything else is stupid.

And large chunks of the world would see the writing on the wall. "The US doesn't care about us, so we return the favor. The Germans are giving us a choice of joining them voluntarily or being consumed. If our neighbors with the poor sense of boundaries join them first we will have even further problems."

The America Firsters knew this, and they could never find a counter, so in the end they were never able to get the majority of Americans to buy their program.

 

[catsmate]

That's another nice fantasy.

Tell me something, were the Germans going to get that fantasy slave army of a quarter-billion men to build them a navy to get them across the Atlantic too?

So Operation Catapult wasn't necessary?

 

[dafydd]

So Operation Catapult wasn't necessary?

You are expecting SHC to take any notice of history?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Definition of HISTORIOGRAPHY
1 a : the writing of history; especially : the writing of history based on the critical examination of sources, the selection of particulars from the authentic materials, and the synthesis of particulars into a narrative that will stand the test of critical methods

b : the principles, theory, and history of historical writing <a course in historiography>

2: the product of historical writing : a body of historical literature

Definition of Conspiracy Theory historiography:

 

[Corsair 115]

He's trying to shoehorn the resources of the entire planet into the 1940 Kriegsmarine's tally sheet. This like of gymnastics is needed when one refuses to accept reality.

No, I get that. What I found interesting is the implication from his line of thought, which I read as follows:

The U.S. didn't need to worry if Germany took all of Europe and most or all of Russia because even then it still would have been a practical impossibility for it to have invaded the United States. But such a view means he has no qualms at all about the vile Nazi regime conquering Europe and Russia and imposing its harsh and brutal rule on those conquered peoples. (Millions of which in western Russia would have been starved to death to make way for German settlers.)

Quite apart from any direct concerns over the potential of an invasion of the U.S. by any greater German Reich was the fact that the Nazi regime in itself was cruel and reprehensible and worth fighting on that reason alone.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No, I get that. What I found interesting is the implication from his line of thought, which I read as follows:

The U.S. didn't need to worry if Germany took all of Europe and most or all of Russia because even then it still would have been a practical impossibility for it to have invaded the United States. But such a view means he has no qualms at all about the vile Nazi regime conquering Europe and Russia and imposing its harsh and brutal rule on those conquered peoples. (Millions of which in western Russia would have been starved to death to make way for German settlers.)

Yeah, and the isolationists had to deal with the same issues. They never got a platform together that would deal with that problem.

Quite apart from any direct concerns over the potential of an invasion of the U.S. by any greater German Reich was the fact that the Nazi regime in itself was cruel and reprehensible and worth fighting on that reason alone.

One of my profs at Purdue was an Eighth Army veteran, '39-'45. He once said "Killing Nazis then was a good idea. And it's STILL a good idea."

 

[Hans]

I suspect that in a world where the Axis won the following would happen

A 'cold war' between them and the United States

The Axis would try to take over the European colonies in the Americas, particularly the Dutch and French - and against French, British, Belgian and Portuguese colonies in Africa and Asia

Economic blockade.

Then build up for a generation, after that invasion would have been possible also this world would have nuclear weapons, probably on both sides

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I think South America would take the pragmatic route and become "neutral but biased" toward Germany. The colonies would be facing a two government situation, one government representing the government in exile from the home country, and the other representing the de facto, and de jure, government at home. Vichy France would pressure it's colonies to accept German "advisors" (maybe only 50,000 or so) and the influence would have spread to adjoining countries via fifth column activities. The "Aryan Revolution" would spread as more and more peoples were made "honorary Aryans". The end result would be Europe, Africa and South America under the Nazis, with Russia as far as the Urals either under German control or being pressed hard.

 

[Hans]

I think South America would take the pragmatic route and become "neutral but biased" toward Germany. The colonies would be facing a two government situation, one government representing the government in exile from the home country, and the other representing the de facto, and de jure, government at home. Vichy France would pressure it's colonies to accept German "advisors" (maybe only 50,000 or so) and the influence would have spread to adjoining countries via fifth column activities. The "Aryan Revolution" would spread as more and more peoples were made "honorary Aryans". The end result would be Europe, Africa and South America under the Nazis, with Russia as far as the Urals either under German control or being pressed hard.

Not to forget that SA already had large colonies of Japanese, Italians, Germans, etc. Not to mention that a Europe under Hitler would have empowered Franco to take over Portugal too and probably a mandate to re-establish Spanish authority over there lost colonies in SA

 

[SpringHallConvert]

Quite apart from any direct concerns over the potential of an invasion of the U.S. by any greater German Reich was the fact that the Nazi regime in itself was cruel and reprehensible and worth fighting on that reason alone.

The Nazi regime in Berlin:

Concentration camps
Biological testing on civilians
Carpet bombing women and children
Supportive of dictators and tyrannical governments

The fascist Roosevelt regime in Washington:

Concentration camps in America
Biological testing on civilians (Tuskegee syphilis experiments)
Carpet bombing women and children (Hamburg, Dresden, Berlin, etc...)
Supportive of dictators and tyrannical government (Uncle Joe and the USSR)

Our own government was cruel and reprehensible too. Our armies should have moved on Washington just as soon as they came back from Europe.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not to forget that SA already had large colonies of Japanese, Italians, Germans, etc. Not to mention that a Europe under Hitler would have empowered Franco to take over Portugal too and probably a mandate to re-establish Spanish authority over there lost colonies in SA

The prefect core for fifth column activities. We know the Japanese were trying to set up covert operations there from the Magic intercepts. I sometimes wonder how much information the US passed along to those governments, and how the "agents of a foreign power" were treated when Japan commenced hostilities. There's a book in there somewhere.

 

[dafydd]

The Nazi regime in Berlin:

Started the war and killed lots of Jews and 'undesirables'Concentration camps
Biological testing on civilians
Carpet bombing women and children
Supportive of dictators and tyrannical governments

The fascist Roosevelt regime in Washington:

Helped my father's generation out of a jamConcentration camps in America
Biological testing on civilians (Tuskegee syphilis experiments)
Carpet bombing women and children (Hamburg, Dresden, Berlin, etc...)
Supportive of dictators and tyrannical government (Uncle Joe and the USSR)

Our own government was cruel and reprehensible too. Our armies should have moved on Washington just as soon as they came back from Europe.

ftfy. It was British Bomber Command who took the decision to bomb Dresden, in retaliation for Coventry. You really ought to read some history books, then you wouldn't make such a fool of yourself.

 

[Mudcat]

The Nazi regime in Berlin:

Concentration camps
Biological testing on civilians
Carpet bombing women and children
Supportive of dictators and tyrannical governments

The fascist Roosevelt regime in Washington:

Concentration Internment camps in America
Biological testing on civilians (which was done without his knowledge or consent and was exposed by the government after which they put into place a system to prevent that from happening ever again)
Carpet bombing women and children (which is why the military uses more advanced weapons now in order to cut down on collateral damage)
Supportive of dictators and tyrannical government (which they then latter took out of power)

Your post was inaccurate and severely biased. I fixed it for you.

 

[dafydd]

Your post was inaccurate and severely biased. I fixed it for you.

Inaccurate and severely biased is the truther's modus operandi.

 

[SpringHallConvert]

ftfy. It was British Bomber Command who took the decision to bomb Dresden, in retaliation for Coventry. You really ought to read some history books, then you wouldn't make such a fool of yourself.

Are you arguing that the U.S. Army Air Force didn't take part in the bombing of Dresden? That U.S. aircraft and U.S. pilots didn't carpet bomb women and children in Dresden?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The USAF didn't drop carpets.

 

[dafydd]

Are you arguing that the U.S. Army Air Force didn't take part in the bombing of Dresden? That U.S. aircraft and U.S. pilots didn't carpet bomb women and children in Dresden?

No, but Sir Arthur Harris and Churchill took the final decision. Who took the decision to bomb Coventry and Liverpool? Who bombed who first? Hint- you can find the answers in a history book.

 

[Spindrift]

the usaf didn't drop carpets.

usaaf