Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[R.A.F.]

I'm trying to educate you, on my own time...

Even if it "appears" to be an effort wasted on the likes of Freddy, I, (for one) appreciate your (and others) effort.

 

[dafydd]

No it hasn't. Post #8172 was my rebuttal to post #8164. Now I want a counter-rebuttal. If you believe your own arguments, you'll stop tap dancing around and give a serious response.

Here is my serious answer. The Moon landings happened. You have a delusion and a fixation. Are you going to go to your grave with this fixation? You are your ilk will never prove that the Moon landings were a hoax. They happened. This will be a part of history for a long time, you and your kind will be forgotten.

 

[Erock]

You people sure are good at tap dancing around and playing for time. I say that the reason the Apollo flag didn't billow is because the breeze simply wasn't strong enough to make it billow. It was only strong enough to make it move slightly. The breeze that made Jarrah's flag billow slightly was a bit stronger because he was running a bit faster and he was at a different angle to the flag than that of the Apollo astronaut.

Someone please give a rebuttal to that right now.

I say that the reason the Apollo flag didn't billow is because it was in a vacuum on the Moon. The contact from the astronauts's arm was only slight. The air that made Jarrah's flag billow was on Earth, so there would always be a difference. The movement on approach was simple ground vibration.

[FF88]Now, stop tapdancing, because you are cornered. You are like the voice recording left over from the Black Knight in Monty Python after he has had all his limbs, torso and head removed. They would laugh you out of the debating hall. You hoax believers have the attitude that you are winning when you have been so badly annihilated that all you can do is obfuscate and use sophistry to try and hide the replies. All I need do to thwart you is to keep asking you the questions you keep avoiding, and making the same points that you have no plausible reply to, until you answer them. The viewers will not be fooled by your actions[/FF88]

Three separate people have used photo analysis/video analysis and determined the same thing. This includes Jarrah White. They all agree that the astronaut could have touched the flag as he passed it. Your reply that "you think" they are all wrong doesn't cut it. Demonstrate why they are all wrong.

Seismic data suggests that the Moon is a very good conductor of sound, the astronaut could very easily have moved the flagpole with his footsteps.

That's it. You only have abject denial to these, but nevertheless they are not just plausible, but by your standards for using that word, they are positively proven. The flagpole moved in my animated gif, and you accused me of doctoring the photos Yes, the flagpole moved - definitely. That says ground vibration.

Why did Jarrah's flag, square on and more likely to move from magically pushed air, NOT MOVE until he was practically level with it, whilst the Apollo flag shows movement at 4-6 feet away.

Jarrah's flag - he is moving no quicker than Dave Scott, in fact if you speed him up to your "theory", he is moving slower!, yet the Apollo flag does NOT BILLOW. Jarrah's does.

Jarrah's flag comes to a stop after 5 seconds, the Apollo flag sped up 150% takes 20 seconds. Now explain, properly this time, it billows much more than Apollo yet stops way quicker.

Please explain why the video showing a wide book and a plastic bag. The bag only moved when the book came into frame, about six inches. This is the complete opposite to your "atmosphere explanation".

People don't push "breezes" in front of them, the air filters out to the sides predominantly. Show me some physics that explains this ficticious movement of air, 6 feet in front of a man moving.

I await your obfuscation and tap dancing eagerly

 

[R.A.F.]

I have a question for freddy...what happens when we "eventually" return to the Moon for good...will the likes of you, just ignorantly say that all the Apollo we "find" there is faked. Will you be that stupid?

 

[Erock]

The Moon landings happened. You have a delusion and a fixation. Are you going to go to your grave with this fixation?

I think there is something profoundly disturbing about this behaviour. I took some screenshots yesterday from Cosmored(one of FF88's 4 or more youtube accounts).

And This. This. This. This. This. Finally This.

There were a total 21 duplicate comments on 21 different videos in the space of about 10 minutes.

 

[dafydd]

I have a question for freddy...what happens when we "eventually" return to the Moon for good...will the likes of you, just ignorantly say that all the Apollo we "find" there is faked. Will you be that stupid?

They will have to get a Spielberg in to fake a long running hoax like a Moon base.

 

[dafydd]

I think there is something profoundly disturbing about this behaviour. I took some screenshots yesterday from Cosmored(one of FF88's 4 or more youtube accounts).

[qimg]http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4020/spam121.jpg[/qimg]

And This. This. This. This. This. Finally This.

There were a total 21 duplicate comments on 21 different videos in the space of about 10 minutes.

Freddy The Delusional Spambot. Great title for a cartoon series.

 

[R.A.F.]

There were a total 21 duplicate comments on 21 different videos in the space of about 10 minutes.

Talk about obsessive....sheesh.


<snip>

Edited by Loss Leader: 

Edited for Rule 12

 

[Andy_Ross]

They will have to get a Spielberg in to fake a long running hoax like a Moon base.

No, Jerry Anderson will fake the Moon Base. He's done it twice already.

 

[AdMan]

I think there is something profoundly disturbing about this behaviour. I took some screenshots yesterday from Cosmored(one of FF88's 4 or more youtube accounts).

And This. This. This. This. This. Finally This.

There were a total 21 duplicate comments on 21 different videos in the space of about 10 minutes.

Wow. I think I can now see where Buckaroo was coming from with this post:

Once again I ask, this time in regards to FatFreddy, whether it is indeed good sport to engage and taunt those who are clearly mentally ill. Schadenfreude is not a noble pleasure.

 

[Erock]

Wow. I think I can now see where Buckaroo was coming from with this post:

That is actually nothing. Watch the two vids on this blog.

The same arguments, the same meta responses, same links, same phrases, same dismissing of all responses - for 4-5 years.

And here we are again, the same old stuff and no real objective to redoing it, because he certainly isn't even interested in debate.

 

[R.A.F.]

Wow. I think I can now see where Buckaroo was coming from with this post:

I agree...and I guess that's all I'm allowed to say.

 

[R.A.F.]

...the same old stuff and no real objective to redoing it, because he certainly isn't even interested in debate.

Sure there's an "objective"...to promote the hoax.

Freddy has no worries...it's not like he's going to get banned for continually lying about Apollo*...


*on topic and the truth...

 

[Gorgonian]

I'm trying to educate you, on my own time, and to help you out of this tight little cocoon of paranoia and ignorance you've woven around yourself, but I can't do it all for you. You have to be willing to put aside your religious convictions for a moment and think. Can you do that?

This is what gets me about all of this. It's so sad. We have on this forum, such a terrific wealth of knowledgeable people. Those people are very willing to help out, educate, you name it, whatever you want with you on a subject that is very interesting to all of us. Instead of jumping on the opportunity to listen to these people and learn from them, you are so blinded by this...whatever it is...that you are wasting a wonderful opportunity.

There are people all over the world that are paying through the nose for the privilege being offered to you for free, right now. You turn your nose up at it and cling to nonsense just to feel better about yourself.

Please, come to your sense and STOP THIS. You are fooling yourself and nobody else. It really does sadden me to see this happening. Nobody here is being paid to lie to you. Everyone here is completely sane and rational and sees your delusions as clearly as they can see the sun on a clear day. You really, really need to step back and examine reality with a clear head. I hope that you will.

 

[Rincewind]

No, Jerry Anderson will fake the Moon Base. He's done it twice already.

c'mon guys - it'll be Jay.

After all, he already has a moon base....

 

[JayUtah]

Wow. I think I can now see where Buckaroo was coming from with this post:

Indeed, I don't mean to suggest that Buckaroo had no evidence for his suspicion. There is a clearly obsessive and fixated overtone to FatFreddy88's offerings. I only quibble with the speculation of cause.

 

[FatFreddy88]

(from post #8203)

The contact from the astronauts's arm was only slight.

It's already been determined that the flag started moving before he got close enough to it to touch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9qcL4LiUg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0

Three separate people have used photo analysis/video analysis and determined the same thing. This includes Jarrah White.

You're misrepresenting Jarrah White's position to sway those who don't take the time to watch the videos. I urge all viewers to watch the first video above.

Seismic data suggests that the Moon is a very good conductor of sound, the astronaut could very easily have moved the flagpole with his footsteps.

The nature of the movement is consistent with the atmosphere expanation. You haven't been able to show this to be false. These responses were pretty lame too.

(post #8194)

No it hasn't. Post #8172 was my rebuttal to post #8164. Now I want a counter-rebuttal. If you believe your own arguments, you'll stop tap dancing around and give a serious response.
-----------------------------------
There is no rebuttal you will accept.
Really, you ought to rethink.
Obviously, you have not thought this through
Logically, you are wrong
Logistically, you are overloaded with thoughts you cannot handle.

(post #8195)

Look at all the posts between this one and post #8172. I don't see a single rebuttal. Show me which one it is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
What is there to rebut? You've cherry picked and demonstrated a painful lack of knowledge on basic issues, and the overwhelming majority of people who have viewed this thread know it.

You can't give a rebuttal to this because you know it was in atmosphere.

If vibration had been the cause of the movement, the top of the flag would have moved and there would have been some up and down movement of the bottom of the flag. We can rule out vibration because of the nature of movement of the flag.

Jarrah's flag comes to a stop after 5 seconds, the Apollo flag sped up 150% takes 20 seconds. Now explain, properly this time, it billows much more than Apollo yet stops way quicker.

It's not at all clear how fast Jarrah's flag comes to a stop as the camera is not looking at the flag straight on as would be necessary to see when it comes to a stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr76qSQ9ZQQ
(8:30 time mark)

I've made this point before and you people just ignored it.

People don't push "breezes" in front of them, the air filters out to the sides predominantly. Show me some physics that explains this ficticious movement of air, 6 feet in front of a man moving.

Anyone can hang a piece of cloth from a ceiling light and trot by it at a forty five degree angle and watch it behave exactly like the Apollo flag. The time it keeps moving and the speed at which it moves will be a little different as the Apollo footage was shown in slow-motion.

Once after having posted that Spurstalk-moon hoax link on about twenty YouTube videos, the viewcount of that thread went up by more than four thousand in a little over a week. A lot of those people probably hadn't ever seen that hoax evidence before. Some people have sent me notes thanking me. I feel like I'm doing a good thing.

I created a new thread there and posted the direct link to the Spurstalk thread with your "info". It sits there, freely available for any user, registered or not.

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/130467-Miscellaneous-Apollo-hoax-discussion
When I went back as a sock puppet, I was unable to post the info. They seemed to have changed their way of doing things just for you so you could make your point. Could you link to anything similar posted by a real hoax-believer? I'll bet you couldn't get that posted at ApolloHoaxNet.

So far nobody has been able to explain satisfactorily why the Apollo flag didn't billow simply because the breeze wasn't strong enough to make it billow. Anyone can test this at home. You can pretend all you want but you are checkmated by this issue.

 

[tsig]

(from post #8203)

It's already been determined that the flag started moving before he got close enough to it to touch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9qcL4LiUg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0


You're misrepresenting Jarrah White's position to sway those who don't take the time to watch the videos. I urge all viewers to watch the first video above.


The nature of the movement is consistent with the atmosphere expanation. You haven't been able to show this to be false. These responses were pretty lame too.

(post #8194)


(post #8195)

You can't give a rebuttal to this because you know it was in atmosphere.

If vibration had been the cause of the movement, the top of the flag would have moved and there would have been some up and down movement of the bottom of the flag. We can rule out vibration because of the nature of movement of the flag.


It's not at all clear how fast Jarrah's flag comes to a stop as the camera is not looking at the flag straight on as would be necessary to see when it comes to a stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr76qSQ9ZQQ
(8:30 time mark)

I've made this point before and you people just ignored it.


Anyone can hang a piece of cloth from a ceiling light and trot by it at a forty five degree angle and watch it behave exactly like the Apollo flag. The time it keeps moving and the speed at which it moves will be a little different as the Apollo footage was shown in slow-motion.

Once after having posted that Spurstalk-moon hoax link on about twenty YouTube videos, the viewcount of that thread went up by more than four thousand in a little over a week. A lot of those people probably hadn't ever seen that hoax evidence before. Some people have sent me notes thanking me. I feel like I'm doing a good thing.


http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/130467-Miscellaneous-Apollo-hoax-discussion
When I went back as a sock puppet, I was unable to post the info. They seemed to have changed their way of doing things just for you so you could make your point. Could you link to anything similar posted by a real hoax-believer? I'll bet you couldn't get that posted at ApolloHoaxNet.

So far nobody has been able to explain satisfactorily why the Apollo flag didn't billow simply because the breeze wasn't strong enough to make it billow. Anyone can test this at home. You can pretend all you want but you are checkmated by this issue.

So a fluttering piece of cloth proves the whole moon landing was a hoax. Small details for small minds.

 

[mercatormac]

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/130467-Miscellaneous-Apollo-hoax-discussion
When I went back as a sock puppet, I was unable to post the info. They seemed to have changed their way of doing things just for you so you could make your point. Could you link to anything similar posted by a real hoax-believer? I'll bet you couldn't get that posted at ApolloHoaxNet.

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread...osting-To-This-Board-**?p=1870319#post1870319

10. Sock Puppetry

Users are allowed only one account per person. Do not register under a different username for any reason as that will be treated as sock puppetry. All such accounts (including the primary one) will be banned without warning. Should you feel a need to contact the moderator staff, use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the homepage.

 

[R.A.F.]

It's already been determined that the flag started moving before he got close enough to it to touch it.

Youtube vids do not qualify as evidence...so sorry...

You're misrepresenting Jarrah White's position...

If that is so, then LET HIM COME HERE to defend himself.

Otherwise, he is just a coward.

The nature of the movement is consistent with the atmosphere expanation.

No, it is not...please stop lying.

You haven't been able to show this to be false.

You demonstrate your incapability of discussing this topic "in good faith"...you continue to ignore the Burden of proof....your errors are evident for all to see.

These responses were pretty lame too.

Since when is a demand for evidence classified as "lame"??

You can't give a rebuttal to this because you know it was in atmosphere.

So EVERYONE who posted differently in the poll is lying? are you really calling all those posters liars?

We can rule out vibration because of the nature of movement of the flag.

Just who is this "we" kimosabe? NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOU.

Please retract that "we", and do it NOW.

...Jarrah's flag...

Jarrah's not here....you need to start thinking for yourself and allow Jarrah to "rest in peace"

I've made this point before and you people just ignored it.

No one here agrees with you. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THAT, THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND??

I feel like I'm doing a good thing.

A "good thing"?...you are calling ALL THE ASTRONAUTS liars...and are doing so from extreme ignorance. These are american heroes who you have chosen to denigrate, and you think you are doing a "good thing"?

When I went back as a sock puppet, I was unable to post the info. They seemed to have changed their way of doing things just for you so you could make your point.

You really can't be that stupid...there was no rule change....posters who attempt to re-enter the board under another name after being banned ARE OF COURSE RE-BANNED.

Why don't you"sock" this board....they won't mind.

So far nobody has been able to explain satisfactorily why...blah, blah, blah...

Sure seems to be no problem for the scientists of the world, or the posters on this board, or ANYONE who has actually looked at the evidence....they ALL agree that Apollo happened...

What YOU expect is irrelevant...no amount of evidence will convince you, so why do you think anyone should care what you say??

You can pretend all you want but you are checkmated by this issue.

Yet NO ONE agrees with you except for that jackass Jarrah, and assorted "nuts".

"Pretend" your way out of that one...