Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[TheL8Elvis]

Because the night before that same wound didn't require any bandages.



The obvious lack of bandages in the surveillance video.

ETA: Also, here's the video of Zimmerman's lawyer:

Thanks for the link. I now demand the media provide transcriptions for all their interviews.

The attorney said:
I believe that his nose was broken ... he sustained a cut that was serious enough that he probably should have had stitches but there was a delay in him getting to the emergency room so they, by the time they got there, got to the doctor, there was an option not to stitch it up because it already had started healing, thats my understanding.

I don't find any of that unreasonable or to be a clear lie. If your point of contention is simply that on the leaked video, there is no bandage, therefor it's all a lie, we'll just have to disagree.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Begging the question. Your premise implicitly assumes the conclusion. However, I will say that I don't believe that the voice recognition has achieved the status of DNA. If you restated your argument I could possibly agree with you.

If you hadn't already made a false equivalency between dna testing and voice recognition, I might do that.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Why would they?

Because they released the videos at the station and people are asking.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I addressed the hilited part. GZ has not been charged with anything. What advantage would his attorney gain by presenting 'evidence' on a tv interview ? The TV interview portion of the program is simply SPIN TIME for both sides, is it not ?

Is there a transcript or can someone provide the link to the interview in question. I guess if we are going to discuss the attorneys claims, we should have the exact claims handy.

Then why say anything at all? You can't have it both ways, claiming the attorney didn't need to support his claim while ignoring the fact he made the claim for some reason, presumably to put a favorable public spin on GZ's story.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Would a wound justifying sutures likely require a bandage?

Just anecdotal, when i was a child I had a scalp laceration that required 4 stitches. It did bleed profusely at first (the blood was literally pumping out of my head). But it did stop relatively quickly with direct pressure to the wound and had stopped bleeding well before they stitched it up.

 

[Information Analyst]

I know but if it has pedestrian access, than it's fair to say that Zimmerman would not see Trayvon climbing fences or navigating gates to get into the community.

Especially since he was staying their legitimately.

 

[RandFan]

If you hadn't already made a false equivalency between dna testing and voice recognition, I might do that.

As yet it has not been established that it is a false equivalency. Again you are begging the question. Your premise cannot assume the conclusion.

 

[Moss]

Now I have to wonder if all head wounds bleed a lot. Judging from personal experience I might think they do, but then again...
I'd also think the police would have taken photos of Zimmerman, but I'm not sure if that is actually in what happens. Is that common or even legal under Florida law?

 

[triforcharity]

Does anyone have any images of what kind of gate the community has? Where I live consists of multiple unconnected subcommunities, with different names, all under the Bayside Lakes title. Mine used to have a live guard at the entrance with just an arm that draws up and drops down, blocking the road. We still have the arm but the guard was dropped in exchange for a keypad. Either way, the sidewalk next to the gate allows for any pedestrian access. All the other subcommunities have a rolling or a swinging 8 foot gate with brick columns on either side, but still have unlimited pedestrian access.

From what i've read, there was a main gate, similar to what you'd see at some of the higher end gated communities in Viera, like Summer Lakes, Wyndham, etc.

But, there was a well known unsecured pedestrian entrance at some point, but where it is exactly, I don't know.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

As yet it has not been established that it is a false equivalency. Again you are begging the question. Your premise cannot assume the conclusion.

Then you have some links to some double blind tests on voice recognition to I can see that it is as established as DNA testing ?

It seems to me, that like DNA testing, there are minimum sample criteria etc that don't appear to have been met.

 

[RandFan]

Then you have some links to some double blind tests on voice recognition to I can see that it is as established as DNA testing ?

It seems to me, that like DNA testing, there are minimum sample criteria etc that don't appear to have been met.

The threshold isn't "as established". The threshold is that it is sufficient to exclude. What "seems" to you isn't at issue.

 

[sgtbaker]

I don't claim to speak for sgtbaker, but it seems to me the point is #2. If TM is excluded, it makes a good case the 'experts' do not have the ability to determine who was screaming.

I don't want to see just one party excluded. I want to see the results for *both* parties.

That's pretty much my position.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Then why say anything at all? You can't have it both ways, claiming the attorney didn't need to support his claim while ignoring the fact he made the claim for some reason, presumably to put a favorable public spin on GZ's story.

I imagine the attorney is on TV to try to garner some public support or sympathy for GZ. Probably because not saying anything might be interpreted as guilt. But I don't know. Why do you think GZ attorney went on Anderson Cooper?

I'm not having it both ways ? GZ attorney can claim whatever he wants, and provide no evidence during TV interviews.I think he made the claim because it's true or what he was told, and that he is not required to support that claim with evidence in an interview.

I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is ?

 

[RandFan]

That's pretty much my position.

Wanting it doesn't make it necessary. There isn't always get perfect information in forensics. If the science is sound then demanding information that cannot be obtained in order to exclude the valid science is just ad hoc rationalization to justify a position.

 

[sgtbaker]

Especially since he was staying their legitimately.

I know but I was responding to a suggestion to the possibility that the community had zero access and possibly Trayvon didn't have the code to get so maybe Zimmerman saw Trayvon hopping a fence. It would be a great excuse for Zimmerman's alleged "suspicious behavior" but I don't think that happened as every gated community I have ever lived in, had pedestrian access.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I imagine the attorney is on TV to try to garner some public support or sympathy for GZ. Probably because not saying anything might be interpreted as guilt. But I don't know. Why do you think GZ attorney went on Anderson Cooper?

I'm not having it both ways ? GZ attorney can claim whatever he wants, and provide no evidence during TV interviews.I think he made the claim because it's true or what he was told, and that he is not required to support that claim with evidence in an interview.

I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is ?

But he's denying us our right to trial by media!

If this was the UK I'd be wishing that they would hurry up and charge him so that all of this media speculation would be sub judice. But IIRC the sub judice restrictions are much laxer/non-existent in the US?

 

[Kestrel]

From what i've read, there was a main gate, similar to what you'd see at some of the higher end gated communities in Viera, like Summer Lakes, Wyndham, etc.

But, there was a well known unsecured pedestrian entrance at some point, but where it is exactly, I don't know.

The main gate to the neighborhood can be seen in Google Street view. Some gated communities only close the main gate late at night, if they close it at all.

 

[Almo]

I'm assuming this is a Knox-type monster thread, and I have to post this kind of thing in here. Anyone see this from Frank Taaffe? He's the head of the neighborhood watch where Martin was killed:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/03/zimmerman-defender-rants-about-young-black-males/

I saw it live, and it was excruciating. Soledad did not let him go. She and another panelist kept pushing this guy once it was clear that, in Frank's opinion, the idea of Zimmerman doing a racial-profile on Treyvon was ok.

 

[sgtbaker]

Wanting it doesn't make it necessary. There isn't always get perfect information in forensics. If the science is sound then demanding information that cannot be obtained in order to exclude the valid science is just ad hoc rationalization to justify a position.

What I hilited was the cusp of the issue. If voice identification was as exact as DNA, I would go with you, totally on your point. As I see it, there does require some subjective input to reach a final conclusion, which means it's subject to human bias. I don't see what's wrong with asking for a test on both voices, since it can really only be one of them. Even the expert in the first article said he couldn't say it was Trayvon's voice without doing a comparison with his voice.

 

[WildCat]

As yet it has not been established that it is a false equivalency.

Ah yes, I love the way you shift the burden of proof away from the person making the claim (you) and insist that other people prove you wrong. Then you ironically blather about logical fallacies...