Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[tsig]

So, is there a valid reason to reject Owen as an expert? Bueller? Anyone?

Special Deputy, Warren County Sheriff's Department, Bowling Green, KY
Experience in the Recording Arts, 35 years

This is called padding the resume.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I thought the 13yo's account is now suspect, according to his mother?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...martin-grainy-proves-lawyer-article-1.1052713

“He really couldn't see anything,” she said. “I think when interviewing a 13 year old you don't give them three options.”

But he saw enough to feel compelled to have his sister call 911.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

“He really couldn't see anything,” she said. “I think when interviewing a 13 year old you don't give them three options.”

But he saw enough to feel compelled to have his sister call 911.

In context, she was saying that he didn't see enough to discern who was on top. She's not saying he didn't see the incident.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

One example of the neighborhood lighting can be seen in the google street view of the back entrance.

Yet:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...martin-grainy-proves-lawyer-article-1.1052713

“He kept telling them he couldn't see anything because it was too dark,” she said. “He said he couldn't see the race or anything. He never saw a second person. ”

 

[SomedayGirl]

Even further, Professor, re: context she's saying her son couldn't see what color he was wearing and that the police gave him three color options.

ETA: That the police interview took place eight days after the incident also gives me pause.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

In context, she was saying that he didn't see enough to discern who was on top. She's not saying he didn't see the incident.

Well, she's not saying that, because her son never claimed to see anyone on top.

I do get you point about context - but this is where we get all crazy and rely on people's exact words they chose to use, right ?

 

[AlBell]

Well from what I've looked up, Zimmerman has the burden of proof to show that Martin actually attacked him first, which is going to be an uphill battle given his aggravated speech and aggressive pursuit of Martin while Martin was attempting to flee. Furthermore he apparently had the gun in a visible holster while pursuing Martin, which would actually mean that Martin was justified even if Martin attacked him first.

That being said, I have been doing my amateur google-legal research, and in regards to sentencing, it should be noted that I've found that in Florida, the crime will apparently be elevated to the next degree because a firearm was involved, and on top of that it involves a child and actual aggressive behavior by the killer, in which case I think we're starting with a baseline of voluntary manslaughter that can end-up as second-degree murder. Which is life in prison.

Bye-bye Georgie. It's not looking good.

Good luck with that. You might be better off joining the Sharpton-Jackson-NBPP lynch mob(s).

 

[Xulld]

Interesting. I don't own a gun, but when I imagine following someone I think could be dangerous in the dark, I imagine myself having my hand on the gun. Then again, that might slow you down.

anecdote.

I have carried for 10 years, never in a million would I have my hand on my firearm until I saw a direct overt threat. Not a potential threat.

First off, when you get your CCW here in Florida you take a class and they go over all the laws you could get busted on if you brandish, menace, or otherwise threaten someone with your firearm.

He may or may not have had it in his hand, but I can safety tell you that it is SOP to not touch the weapon at all ever until you draw.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think we can rule out Zimmerman witnessing Martin actually entering the gate. If Martin had jumped the fence or tailgated behind a car to get in, this would have been a more suspicious behavior than "staring at houses" and would have been reported. If Martin had used the security code to open the gate, that would have told Zimmerman that Martin was either a resident or guest if the community.

Most security gates only stop cars. Anyone on foot can walk around them. GZ made no comment he saw TM enter the complex. Perhaps someone can correct me if that is wrong.

Where was Martin durring this time? Two and a half minutes is enough time to get Martin almost home at a normal walking pace. At a fast walk, Martin would be home long before Zimmerman could pull his suragate ***** out of his pants. If Martin had simply stopped on the path, he would have been easily visible in any light sufficient to keep Zimmerman from walking into a lamp post and busting his nose. A conclusion can therefore be reached that Martin having walked fast to get away from Zimmerman, turned the corner at the first condo and hid in the shadows as Zimmerman walked or ran past.

This is completely inconsistent with TM's girlfriend's testimony corroborated by the phone records. And you are assuming GZ wasn't close behind GZ or considering maybe TM merely stopped to ask GZ why he was following him when he saw GZ pursued TM around the corner between the condos.

One example of the neighborhood lighting can be seen in the google street view of the back entrance.

And does the gate need to be opened for a pedestrian to get in?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Right - but whether you need them or not is open to interpretation by the doctor. Not worth arguing about anyway.

It's not "interpretation" it's pretty standard criteria. The bottom line is the lawyer's claim appears to be a serious exaggeration. IMO it makes GZ look worse, not better to have played up these injuries.

He gets treated on the scene - declines to go to hospital. He just shot and killed someone and is probably in some sort of shock/denial/ecstasy/whatever.
He shows up at police station with clear signs of lacerations on the back of his head ( see what I did there ? ) and after he goes home and all the adrenaline wears off , he wakes up the next day and decides it hurts enough to go to the hospital. Someone at the hospital mentions, "you should have had stitches". GZ tells his family/attorney 'They said I should have had stitches'.

You can disagree with that narrative (and obviously do). But I don't think you can claim it's fantastic or far-fetched.

Trouble is, there is no evidence so far that GZ sought medical care the next day or any day soon after for that matter.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Trouble is, there is no evidence so far that GZ sought medical care the next day or any day soon after for that matter.

I don't find that troubling. GZ is not on trial. He's not even charged with anything ... why would he be busy providing evidence ?

I do believe his father (?) noted that GZ was following the advice of the police and not talking to anyone.

 

[bynmdsue]

Is it possible Zimmerman's clothes were collected at the scene and that the clothes he's wearing in the video at the station are not the ones he was wearing during the incident? before getting hung up on "red jacket" who knows how many red jackets he might own.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Is it possible Zimmerman's clothes were collected at the scene and that the clothes he's wearing in the video at the station are not the ones he was wearing during the incident? before getting hung up on "red jacket" who knows how many red jackets he might own.

No. The police would have said by now.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't find that troubling. GZ is not on trial. He's not even charged with anything ... why would he be busy providing evidence ?

I do believe his father (?) noted that GZ was following the advice of the police and not talking to anyone.

But we are talking about the lawyer's public statement, not GZ's. If GZ had seen an MD the next day the lawyer could have said so. Why claim the injuries were [X] in the first place and then not provide any evidence or even state what the evidence was? Makes no sense. Exaggeration, OTOH, in an incompetent way perhaps, does explain the lawyer's unsupported comments.

 

[crimresearch]

Does anyone have any images of what kind of gate the community has? Where I live consists of multiple unconnected subcommunities, with different names, all under the Bayside Lakes title. Mine used to have a live guard at the entrance with just an arm that draws up and drops down, blocking the road. We still have the arm but the guard was dropped in exchange for a keypad. Either way, the sidewalk next to the gate allows for any pedestrian access. All the other subcommunities have a rolling or a swinging 8 foot gate with brick columns on either side, but still have unlimited pedestrian access.

The picture of the standard metal and probably automated front gate, along with the brick wall has been posted a few times, it doesn't appear to be a wide open community.

 

[Unabogie]

I don't think him going to the doctor the next day is as important as the photos of his injuries right after he was detained. After all, by the next day he surely realized his legal peril and would have motivation to "enhance" any injuries he had. He could have roughed up his own nose or head in order to buttress his claims. I think that makes any police photos take in the immediate aftermath so critical.

 

[Metullus]

No. The police would have said by now.

Why would they?

 

[sgtbaker]

The picture of the standard metal and probably automated front gate, along with the brick wall has been posted a few times, it doesn't appear to be a wide open community.

I know but if it has pedestrian access, than it's fair to say that Zimmerman would not see Trayvon climbing fences or navigating gates to get into the community.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I don't find that troubling. GZ is not on trial. He's not even charged with anything ... why would he be busy providing evidence ?

But we are talking about the lawyer's public statement, not GZ's. If GZ had seen an MD the next day the lawyer could have said so. Why claim the injuries were [X] in the first place and then not provide any evidence or even state what the evidence was? Makes no sense. Exaggeration, OTOH, in an incompetent way perhaps, does explain the lawyer's unsupported comments.

I addressed the hilited part. GZ has not been charged with anything. What advantage would his attorney gain by presenting 'evidence' on a tv interview ? The TV interview portion of the program is simply SPIN TIME for both sides, is it not ?

Is there a transcript or can someone provide the link to the interview in question. I guess if we are going to discuss the attorneys claims, we should have the exact claims handy.

 

[Dancing David]

I read that NYT article, found it very interesting but it doesn't change my feelings. Still, we sit and wait. Damnit, I hate waiting!

It will be a long wait, if a trial begins. Discovery alone is going to be very messy.