Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[FatFreddy88]

This video show that the flag started moving when he wasn't close enough to touch it.
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Yes, that is called missing my point. I said he touched it as he ran past it.

When the flag started moving, his elbow was too far away from it to be able to touch it as this video shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9qcL4LiUg

So clearly obvious, you simply place your cursor on the flagpole full screen and it is moving. This when he is a full 4 feet away. I don't know what world of physics you live in, but air simply doesn't do that when pushed by a moving object.

ETA: You will just deny it whatever I say, so here are two frame grabs. Place the cursor on the left bottom corner of the flag - it moves, that is the flagpole. If you look close enough you can see the pole itself move!

That's funny. When I put the above video on full screen and do the same thing, I don't see the movement that your photos show.

Nor do I see it here on full screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y

I wonder if you doctored your photos.

I do see a slight movement at the top right which may be the rod but that can be attributed to the flag motion moving the rod–not necessarily the rod moving the flag.

This shows you have not the slightest clue about the size of rocket needed to put a payload safely on the Moon - and you claim an invisible launch took place with not one person seeing it, hearing it, tracking it, talking about it, or mentioning their involvement in the design of it. Pure woooooowooo.

There are plausible scenarios that would explain this. It might have been one of the supposed Surveyor launches. If any country did see an unannounced mission, it may have made a secret deal with NASA. The record of a country tracking a classified NASA missions isn't going to be made public so my not being able to find it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

It isn't heavier fabric, it allows light though it, and why the hell would they use heavier fabric???

I meant fabric that was heavier than that of the flag that Jarrah used. The Apollo flag might have been made of slighty heavier fabric.

FatFreddy88/DavidC, you claimed on this board that people like me (who are knowledgeable about space flight - unlike you - and disagree with your claims) do not believe what we are saying. I have asked you repeatedly (last in post 7985) to back up this claim. Stop dodging. Provide direct evidence for your claim that I don't believe Apollo went to the Moon - no idiotic YouTube loyalty tests - or retract the claim and apologize. This is a direct question, and I require a direct answer. Anything else will constitute your concession.

You maintain that the Chinese spacewalk was real. That's all the evidence that's necessary to show that a poster doesn't even believe his own arguments. Look on post #7960 and click on the link to see the clear evidence that the Chinese faked their spacewalk.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8139309&postcount=7960

Photographs from the LRO of the reflectors in the correct place and videos of the reflectors being carried to that location are proof.

Pictures are fakable. Anything that's fakable isn't proof because it may have been faked. Here's some info on that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKj5fckUX-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc2kijG8YdY

Data sent back by other equipment installed at the same time as the LRRR are further proof.

I might be bogus data or data sent by an unmanned lander with remotely adjustable reflectors attached to its sides.

Videos of the rockets launching carrying the men and equipment to the landing sites are also proof

We saw the rockets leave earth but we have no way of knowing where they went after that, or whether they were even manned.

as are the photographs showing consistent rotation of the Earth during the journey and the appearance and behaviour of weather systems (some of which was broadcast on live TV).

Unmanned craft can take pictures and video footage.

Do a YouTube search on "MoonFaker: Flagging The Dead Horses" to see more on the waving flag.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If any country did see an unannounced mission, it may have made a secret deal with NASA.

Leave no straw unclutched.

"Hi, NASA? Yeah, this is the Kremlin. Can we have a quiet word?"

 

[Erock]

When the flag started moving, his elbow was too far away from it to be able to touch it as this video shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9qcL4LiUg

Almost everything you say on this matter is complete nonsense. You put up the same video yet again, and just say, hey look it proves my point.

It does nothing of the sort. The camera was wide angled. Do you know what that means? Closer objects look closer, farther objects look farther.

But don't just take my word for it, for those who can bear to watch a Jarrah White video, even he concludes that the astronaut was close enough to brush it with his arm....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QI3fwzPGtUk#t=257s

Direct quote from Jarrah White

"Now, admittedly, I've been fairly conservative in measuring the bodywidth by only including the width up to his shoulders and it's possible his left elbow was jutting out making the body wider. If that were the case, his elbow could have brushed the bottom right corner of the flag."

Are we done now? Maybe a screenprint from his video?

YOUR COMMENTS ON JARRAH'S VIDEO PLEASE.

That's funny. When I put the above video on full screen and do the same thing, I don't see the movement that your photos show.

Yeah that figures, you didn't see that the Chinese "bubble" was a piece of space debris expelled from the hold either

Nor do I see it here on full screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y

It's way too quick at normal speed to even see anything. Download it and slow it down. Actually please don't bother, you've dismissed this on countless message boards on the web already, you will never acknowledge this.

I wonder if you doctored your photos.

Are you calling me a liar? They are not doctored, and every time you see something that takes apart your argument, you make this same claim. Download the footage yourself, take screen captures and make an animated gif. You have the means to prove me wrong, but you won't be able to, these are genuine frames unchanged.

I do see a slight movement at the top right which may be the rod but that can be attributed to the flag motion moving the rod–not necessarily the rod moving the flag.

I suggest you visit the opticians, or speak to somebody about your inability to admit when you are wrong. Visually proven, no matter what you say.

I meant fabric that was heavier than that of the flag that Jarrah used. The Apollo flag might have been made of slighty heavier fabric.

It was made of nylon. White's flag is polyester or cloth and heavier. What possible reason would NASA have for using a heavier fabric? It makes no sense whichever way you look at it.

His flag billowed when he ran past it, it didn't move before he got to it. I see no explanation from you about this. It also stopped within 5 seconds on his video, and I see no explanation for this either.

You maintain that the Chinese spacewalk was real. That's all the evidence that's necessary to show that a poster doesn't even believe his own arguments.

Truly pathetic circular reasoning and backhandedly calling everybody liars. Your whole argument on that off topic issue has been dismantled on your debunking blog.

And please don't insult everybody's intelligence by suggesting that credibility is an issue because somebody disbelieves your claims, whilst disproving them. To which, you have not even responded on the PF thread. As was pointed out to you, the person who made the video claiming the Chinese faked their spacewalk is a person who does not doubt the Apollo landings.

YOUR COMMENTS ON THAT PLEASE.

 

[Garrison]

Pictures are fakable. Anything that's fakable isn't proof because it may have been faked.

What we have here is the last desperate refuge of the HB. Faced with a mountain of evidence they simple plead for everyone to ignore it because in their opinion it might possibly have been possible for it to be faked. Sorry FatFreddy it ain't going to happen.

 

[threadworm]

There are plausible scenarios that would explain this. It might have been one of the supposed Surveyor launches.

I wasn't going to refer to your replies to another poster, but 'Supposed'??

Pictures are fakable. Anything that's fakable isn't proof because it may have been faked. Here's some info on that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKj5fckUX-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc2kijG8YdY

Except these aren't. No-one has ever proved they were fake. The best you have there is 'they might be'. Except they aren't.

I might be bogus data or data sent by an unmanned lander with remotely adjustable reflectors attached to its sides.

Except they aren't. The most accurate part your statement there is the Freudian "I might be bogus". Feel free to explain how the alleged unmanned lander sent back seismic data for years after Apollo finished.

We saw the rockets leave earth but we have no way of knowing where they went after that, or whether they were even manned.

Yes we do, because they were tracked there and back, and they did live TV broadcasts showing images of Earth consistent with satellite images from the same day.

Unmanned craft can take pictures and video footage.

Except they didn't. Apollo astronauts did.

Do a YouTube search on "MoonFaker: Flagging The Dead Horses" to see more on the waving flag.

No.

 

[JayUtah]

FatFreddy88/DavidC, you claimed on this board that people like me (who are knowledgeable about space flight - unlike you - and disagree with your claims) do not believe what we are saying. I have asked you repeatedly (last in post 7985) to back up this claim. Stop dodging. Provide direct evidence for your claim that I don't believe Apollo went to the Moon - no idiotic YouTube loyalty tests - or retract the claim and apologize. This is a direct question, and I require a direct answer. Anything else will constitute your concession.

+1

This particular poster has spent the last 5 years since his banning at ApolloHoax (which he mistakenly identifies as my site, Clavius.org) spreading blatant lies about me and others. I certainly would like to see him answer for that, inasmuch as he has repeated the same claims here.

 

[JayUtah]

Then I realized I'm familiar with it being aired on the National Geographic channel.

It airs periodically in the United States on the National Geographic Channel. It was produced by Zig Zag Productions of London with funding from Channel 4 (UK) and Discovery Canada. Naturally it aired first in those markets. When it was released in the U.S. the narration was replaced with an American voice actor and it was retitled.

 

[Rincewind]

.

Pictures are fakable. Anything that's fakable isn't proof because it may have been faked. Here's some info on that.

So you're admitting that hoaxers fake their pictures? At last, we're making progress....

.
I might be bogus data or data sent by an unmanned lander with remotely adjustable reflectors attached to its sides.

You never said a truer word.....

 

[R.A.F.]

When I put the above video on full screen and do the same thing, I don't see the movement that your photos show.

Then you are CONSCIOUSLY choosing to ignore it....although very subtle, the movement IS there.

I wonder if you doctored your photos.

I wonder if you can discuss this topic "in good faith"...or should I just ignore you now?

It might have been one of the supposed Surveyor launches.

"Might"?...ok, which one??

The Apollo flag might have been made of slighty heavier fabric.

Irrelevant...it wasn't.

I might be bogus data or data sent by an unmanned lander with remotely adjustable reflectors attached to its sides.

Again with the "might"?? Are you making a claim, or are you just "jerking our chains" as so many HBs "do"??

We saw the rockets leave earth but we have no way of knowing where they went after that...

No...YOU don't know how launches are tracked, so YOU can't envision how it was done...typical HB nonsense.

...or whether they were even manned.

...even though it is well documented that the astronauts entered the spacecraft??? So you'll deny ANYTHING if it shows the landings happened?

Unmanned craft can take pictures and video footage.

Can ISN'T "did"...please learn the difference.

Do a YouTube search on "MoonFaker: Flagging The Dead Horses" to see more on the waving flag.

I'd like to keep the few brain cells I have remaining, and to ensure that, I try to ignore any hoax believer who hasn't the "balls" to discuss this topic rationally...on a forum where they would be compelled to present evidence. Of course BAUT comes to mind, and Jarrah White wouldn't last a day if he were compelled to present actual evidence for the "supposed" hoax.

...or to put it simply....no...not watching any assine Jarrah videos.

 

[JayUtah]

Actually, I had a LOL moment when they were claiming that the flag should have been light on one side, but dark on the other! you know, a thin, fabric flag...

Nylon especially is prone to that type of macroscopic scatter. The flags were adapted from off-the-shelf models, and almost identical flags can still be purchased today.

This was one of the first demonstrations I created for my web site. Sadly that flag was stolen last year from in front of my house.
http://www.clavius.org/glowflag.html

Zig Zag Productions asked me to reproduce several flag effects on the desert set, most notably its light-scattering properties. Their property shop built a mockup using an appropriate nylon flag. However their mechanical apparatus was not as faithful as those built by Grant Imahara for Mythbusters; he followed NASA's original design. However for optical purposes the flag simply needs to be held outstretched. The entire set was lit only with a single 18 kW luminaire with no diffusion; only barndoors to control spill. The set was 30 miles from any other inhabited area, in the Trona Pinnacles area of the Mojave Desert.

It's silly to me when conspiracy theorists cling to the most eminently testable claims like parallel shadows and backlit flags. Do they really think their audiences are that dumb? Then I go read Yahoo Answers and realize that a lot of people are still willing to fall for that nonsense.

Yes, that is called missing my point. I said he touched it as he ran past it.

When we first examined this photogrammetrically the distance computed between astronaut and flag had enough error to put them in contact. Jarrah says he fudged the numbers in his favor, so there you go.

It isn't heavier fabric, it allows light though it, and why the hell would they use heavier fabric?

Magic Fabric (the kind that is simultaneously translucent and yet heavy enough to swing inertially without significant air resistance) is in keeping with Magic Spacecraft and Magic Sand, which seems to be all that can be brought to bear from the conspiracy side. I'm not impressed. Photographic analysis cannot conclusively preclude direct contact with the fabric, so that's the parsimonious explanation.

 

[sts60]

...Magic Fabric (the kind that is simultaneously translucent and yet heavy enough to swing inertially without significant air resistance) is in keeping with Magic Spacecraft and Magic Sand, which seems to be all that can be brought to bear from the conspiracy side...

Magic Materials cannot simply be used as-is. They must be activated by the mixing vigorously with the complicity of all relevant experts: spacecraft engineers, satellite operators, satellite insurers, space physicists, geologists, tracking station personnel, radio "hams", and so on, all of whom must conspire to Hide the Awful Truth.*

Furthermore, Magic Materials do not work at all when mixed with evidence. That's one reason FatFreddy88/DavidC/rocky/etc. cannot provide any evidence - at all - for his claims of fake movie sets, missions that didn't go where they were tracked, robotically-deployed Apollo LRRRs, faked lunar samples, faked telemetry, secret "real" radiation data, etc., etc.

The other reason, of course, is that he has no evidence whatsoever for any of his claims of faked this and hidden real that - only his ignorant, reflexive disbelief, and monomaniacal rejection of all evidence presented by people who actually know what they're talking about.

*I'm still waiting for you, David, to provide direct evidence for your claim I don't believe what I'm saying - no idiotic YouTube loyalty tests - or to retract this claim and apologize. Evasion or other failure to do so will constitute your concession.

 

[FatFreddy88]

If any country did see an unannounced mission, it may have made a secret deal with NASA.
Leave no straw unclutched.

"Hi, NASA? Yeah, this is the Kremlin. Can we have a quiet word?"

You're thinking inside the box like a good American. Maybe what we were told wasn't what was really happening. You should read Chomsky's analysis of the cold war.
http://www3.niu.edu/~td0raf1/history468/apr2304.htm
(excerpt)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the domestic front, the Cold War helped the Soviet Union entrench its military-bureaucratic ruling class in power, and it gave the US a way to compel its population to subsidise high-tech industry. It isn't easy to sell all that to the domestic populations. The technique used was the old stand-by-fear of a great enemy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm
(excerpt)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Soviets, with their own competing moon program and an intense economic and political and military rivalry with the USA, could be expected to have cried foul if the USA tried to fake a Moon landing. Theorist Ralph Rene responds that shortly after the alleged Moon landings, the USA silently started shipping hundreds of thousands of tons of grain as humanitarian aid to the allegedly starving USSR. He views this as evidence of a cover-up, the grain being the price of silence. (The Soviet Union in fact had its own Moon program).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.nardwuar.com/vs/bill_kaysing/index.html
(excerpt)
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Well, why did they keep faking the Apollo flights, I still don't understand. Did the Soviet Union know it was faked? Why did they keep shut up if they knew it was faked? 'Cause a lot of people would think they kept the moon race going to prove the U.S. was better than the Soviet Union. If the Soviet Union knew, why did they let the U.S. get away with this?
Well, I'll tell you - at the highest levels there is a coalition between governments. In other words, the Soviets said, if you won't tell on us - and they faked most of their space exploration flights - we won't tell on you. It's as simple as that. See, what Apollo is, is the beginning of the end of the ability of the government to hoodwink and bamboozle and manipulate the people. More and more people are becoming aware in the U.S. that the government is totally and completely public enemy number one.
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http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...453l19594l0l21031l6l6l0l0l0l0l109l420l5j1l6l0.

But don't just take my word for it, for those who can bear to watch a Jarrah White video, even he concludes that the astronaut was close enough to brush it with his arm....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QI3fwzPGtUk#t=257s

Direct quote from Jarrah White

"Now, admittedly, I've been fairly conservative in measuring the bodywidth by only including the width up to his shoulders and it's possible his left elbow was jutting out making the body wider. If that were the case, his elbow could have brushed the bottom right corner of the flag."

You only showed the first half of the quote to mislead people who don't take the time to watch the video. He goes on to say, "But this possibility hardly matters because, as we've seen already, the flag started moving well before he got near that corner."

Yeah that figures, you didn't see that the Chinese "bubble" was a piece of space debris expelled from the hold either

People can watch the clip and decide for themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=NVbBFwdmldA
(2:00 time mark)

It's way too quick at normal speed to even see anything. Download it and slow it down. Actually please don't bother, you've dismissed this on countless message boards on the web already, you will never acknowledge this.

I kept the arrow on the corner and the corner never moved from the point where the arrow was.

It was made of nylon.

The official story is that it was made of nylon. All you have is the word of the government.

His flag billowed when he ran past it, it didn't move before he got to it.

He didn't run by it as a forty five degree angle as the Apollo astronaut did.

You maintain that the Chinese spacewalk was real. That's all the evidence that's necessary to show that a poster doesn't even believe his own arguments.
Truly pathetic circular reasoning and backhandedly calling everybody liars. Your whole argument on that off topic issue has been dismantled on your debunking blog.

That was just obfuscation. Go look at the discussion where he had to answer questions. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8139309&postcount=7960

He said some pretty lame things.

the person who made the video claiming the Chinese faked their spacewalk is a person who does not doubt the Apollo landings.

YOUR COMMENTS ON THAT PLEASE.

Maybe he was threatened. Some anti-establishment pundits have been saying some strange things. Noam Chomsky says that 9/11 wasn't an inside job.
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...l763531l0l765609l12l12l0l2l2l0l94l750l10l10l0.

He’s no moron so he was probably threatened. He had a lot of grandchildren that might have had "Accidents" if he hadn’t played ball.

Dylan Avery has changed his stated opinion on 9/11.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com.es/2011/09/dylan-avery-grows-up-bit.html

He was probably threatened.

Lauren Moret spoke franky about the dangers of depleted uranium in this two-part video; that must have been a real problem for the government as she was educating the people and exposing the government.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3626298989248030643#

Here she is looking like a wacko saying that the earthquake in Japan was caused by the US government.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WxmeOqYtB0

She had a daughter and probably grandchildren. Some goons from the government probably paid her a visit and made her "An offer she couldn't refuse".

When normally clear-thinking anti-establishment pundits start saying wacky things, they may be being threatened, or they may be sleeper agents. I would bet those people were threatened as their works were pretty devastating to the government.

to be continued...

 

[Garrison]

So all you can do is provide links to other peoples nonsense sprinkled with your own paranoid 'maybes'? You really don't comprehend how badly you are failing to make your case do you FatFreddy88?

 

[FatFreddy88]

I’d like to hear some analyes of this video as long as we’re talking about the flag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

Except these aren't. No-one has ever proved they were fake. The best you have there is 'they might be'. Except they aren't.

If there is a possibility that they were faked, they aren’t proof that they were real as they may have been faked.

Except they aren't. The most accurate part your statement there is the Freudian "I might be bogus". Feel free to explain how the alleged unmanned lander sent back seismic data for years after Apollo finished.

Yes. I made a typo. I meant to say "It may be bogus".

You missed this video that I posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9geIwWTGQ
(1:17:25 time mark)

A robot craft could have sent back seismic data.

Yes we do, because they were tracked there and back, and they did live TV broadcasts showing images of Earth consistent with satellite images from the same day.

That’s what we read, but is it true? Do YouTube searches on "MoonFaker: Australia & The Conspirators. PART 1", and "MoonFaker: Russia, Jodrell Bank & Frequencies. PART 1".

This particular poster has spent the last 5 years since his banning at ApolloHoax (which he mistakenly identifies as my site, Clavius.org) spreading blatant lies about me and others. I certainly would like to see him answer for that, inasmuch as he has repeated the same claims here.

The link at the bottom of this post explains what he’s referring to.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8014461&postcount=128

People can dedide for themselves whether they are lies.

Then you are CONSCIOUSLY choosing to ignore it....although very subtle, the movement IS there.

I’m going to quote Jarrah White on this one. "Pro-Apollo people have the special ability not to be able to see what everyone else can see. They also have the special ability to be able to see what no one else can see." That’s more or less the way he said it. After debating with pro-Apollo people on several forums, I have to agree with him and this is one of those cases.

 

[R.A.F.]

Maybe what we were told wasn't what was really happening.

How is "being told" something relevant? Do you really think we just sit back and uncritically accept whatever some 3rd party has to say?

HELL NO....STS60 and Jay are just 2 among many examples of professionals, in relevant fields, who have used that expertise to determine that Apollo HAPPENED.

You should read Chomsky's analysis of the cold war.

You should read Andrew Chaikin's masterful work, A Man on the Moon, instead of blindly accepting crap from the likes of Jarrah White.

You might actually learn something.

The official story is that it was made of nylon. All you have is the word of the government.

No, not just their "word"...why do you misrepresent something that is so easily verified?? That you would continue to "argue" that the flag wasn't made of nylon only makes you look like credulous believer, with no mind of his own...

Maybe he was threatened...snip...I would bet those people were threatened...

"Maybe's" and "bets" are irrelevant. Present evidence that the missions were faked, and stop the mindless speculation.


Are you "up" to that task???

 

[BazBear]

You're thinking inside the box like a good American. Maybe what we were told wasn't what was really happening. You should read Chomsky's analysis of the cold war.
http://www3.niu.edu/~td0raf1/history468/apr2304.htm
(excerpt)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the domestic front, the Cold War helped the Soviet Union entrench its military-bureaucratic ruling class in power, and it gave the US a way to compel its population to subsidise high-tech industry. It isn't easy to sell all that to the domestic populations. The technique used was the old stand-by-fear of a great enemy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chomsky's expertise is linguistics. Politically he's a self described anarcho-syndicalist with, rightly or wrongly, a major mistrust of U.S. foreign policy. In any case, his beliefs about the cold war have nothing to do with the reality of Apollo.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm
(excerpt)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Soviets, with their own competing moon program and an intense economic and political and military rivalry with the USA, could be expected to have cried foul if the USA tried to fake a Moon landing. Theorist Ralph Rene responds that shortly after the alleged Moon landings, the USA silently started shipping hundreds of thousands of tons of grain as humanitarian aid to the allegedly starving USSR. He views this as evidence of a cover-up, the grain being the price of silence. (The Soviet Union in fact had its own Moon program).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those wheat shipments were not secret, and Rene had no evidence to back this claim. And as the above points out, the Soviets had their own moon program that continued until 1974. If the Soviets thought a trip to the moon was impossible, why did they have a moon program? And why continue it for five years after they had lost the race?

http://www.nardwuar.com/vs/bill_kaysing/index.html
(excerpt)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, why did they keep faking the Apollo flights, I still don't understand. Did the Soviet Union know it was faked? Why did they keep shut up if they knew it was faked? 'Cause a lot of people would think they kept the moon race going to prove the U.S. was better than the Soviet Union. If the Soviet Union knew, why did they let the U.S. get away with this?
Well, I'll tell you - at the highest levels there is a coalition between governments. In other words, the Soviets said, if you won't tell on us - and they faked most of their space exploration flights - we won't tell on you. It's as simple as that. See, what Apollo is, is the beginning of the end of the ability of the government to hoodwink and bamboozle and manipulate the people. More and more people are becoming aware in the U.S. that the government is totally and completely public enemy number one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blah, blah, blah, an unsubstantiated rant from the late Dark Lord of the Apollo Hoax industry, with plenty of big government paranoia thrown in. And still Evidence Free^TM!

I'll skip your flag waving rants and your "the gummint got to 'em" nonsense because it's just more of the same Evidence Free^TM brand crap you've been peddling all these years.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Fatfreddy88.

If they were threatened to change their stories why haven't you been threatened or even Mr White?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You're thinking inside the box like a good American.

Interesting analysis. You got my nationality wrong for one thing. Just imagine how much else you're wrong about.

Maybe what we were told wasn't what was really happening. You should read Chomsky's analysis of the cold war.

I did. Chomsky opines that it suited those in power in both nations to sustain the cold war at the expense of their populations. He doesn't say they colluded. He certainly doesn't say one side might be bribed by the other into letting it pretend to have pulled off a massive propaganda victory.

The Soviet's early lead in the space race was their proudest achievement. Do you expect anyone to believe they would hand their crown to their ideological enemy knowing the mission that trumped theirs was faked? Utterly risible. And you are arguing on the one hand that the Soviet top brass cynically sustained the cold war at the expense of their people, but cared so much for them that they let the Americans pretend to be leading the space race in return for a consignment of grain? You really haven't thought this through, have you?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If there is a possibility that they were faked, they aren’t proof that they were real as they may have been faked.

Then you might start by establishing whether there really is such a possibility. Convince me.

A robot craft could have sent back seismic data.

Hypothetically, perhaps it could. But so what? No robot craft was built. A manned craft was specified, designed, paid for, built, delivered and flown. This was documented, itemised and photographed in excruciating detail. In stark contrast, how much evidence does your "could have" throw up? None. That's how much. None-much.

 

[Erock]

..........................Spam snipped

Everything you just typed is complete diversion - all covered here.

You only showed the first half of the quote to mislead people who don't take the time to watch the video. He goes on to say, "But this possibility hardly matters because, as we've seen already, the flag started moving well before he got near that corner."

I showed the quote that contradicts what you said. if anyone is misleading here it is you. My post covers both the initial movement and the astronaut contact.

Now Jarrah White says the astronaut was close enough, do you agree with him?

It is VERY straightforward. If you disagree with him, and he is your primary source for "information", then please explain why. If not, then we can just discuss the ground vibration.

I kept the arrow on the corner and the corner never moved from the point where the arrow was.

At fast speed, too quick to notice. That was why I did frame grabs and showed it flipping between two distinct frames and close up. The flagpole moves and you've got nothing but blank pathetic denial, or the claim that I "doctored" my animated gif. PROVE IT!!

The official story is that it was made of nylon. All you have is the word of the government.

And the fact that it allows light through! Plus the fact that there is nothing whatsoever to gain from NOT using a nylon flag. It was nylon.

He didn't run by it as a forty five degree angle as the Apollo astronaut did.

Air billows a flag when it contacts it, no matter what angle it strikes it. FAIL.

Now, Jarrah White's flag stops in 5 seconds. Explain.

Then put your "easy to do" home video demonstrating your duplication of the flag, showing it allowing light through like nylon and moving for at least 20 seconds. It must also move when you are 4 feet away.

Maybe he was threatened.

What a joker you are. He has never freely expressed any doubts or posited that Apollo happens, yet this man who makes a video denegrating Chinese spacewalks is threatened by the ebil USA gubmint? Get real! And why didn't the Chinese threaten him with even worse?

Strangely, David Percy, Ralph Rene, Jarrah White, Joe Rogan and practically anybody else apart from him, is left to spout unrestricted crap all over the world. Including you as well.


You are so horrifically blinkered in any of this, that it is obvious to anybody that you are just trolling, whilst making up any rubbish you can think of to maintain your belief. Further, you now appear to be in full spamming mode, perhaps in the hope that you get a ban, so that you can run back to spursforum and claim victory.