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Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. That was a very fun show to work on. It should be noted that Bart Sibrel and David Percy were invited to participate. Sibrel demanded an enormous appearance fee and Percy flat-out refused.
 
I want to say that I've just watched a program on the Discovery Channel (on cable, in the UK) called "The truth behind the Moon landings".

It had Kaysing & Rene spouting their theories, but more importantly, there was Jay Windley comprehensively demolishing said theories!

Way to go Jay - a real tour de force!

Excellent - I enjoyed every minute!

Thank you!

Just watched it myself on YouTube. Can't remember if I'd seen it before but yes, very enjoyable.

It will always baffle me why these CTers are so happy to display their ignorance and make fools of themselves so publicly.
 
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. That was a very fun show to work on. It should be noted that Bart Sibrel and David Percy were invited to participate. Sibrel demanded an enormous appearance fee and Percy flat-out refused.


Wonderful program, I congratulate you, sir. Sadly, I doubt it will sway the diehard CTists (what would at this point?), but its concise, easy to understand demonstrations/explanations for the layman will hopefully reach most of the viewers who are on the fence.
 
Just watched it myself on YouTube. Can't remember if I'd seen it before but yes, very enjoyable.

Had a bit of a "senior" moment...couldn't place this show.
Then I realized I'm familiar with it being aired on the National Geographic channel. :)



It will always baffle me why these CTers are so happy to display their ignorance and make fools of themselves so publicly.

One need only look as far as our own (dearly departed) Patrick1000. He seemed to actually enjoy appearing foolish...then again, I think he was "chain jerking", and I don't think he believed half the stuff he was peddleing.


While it is not a crime to make errors, it becomes a crime when rational, mundane, explanations are ignored in favor of promoting ignorant garbage.
 
Just watched it myself on YouTube. Can't remember if I'd seen it before but yes, very enjoyable.

It will always baffle me why these CTers are so happy to display their ignorance and make fools of themselves so publicly.

Exactly - my very thoughts as I watched.

Actually, I had a LOL moment when they were claiming that the flag should have been light on one side, but dark on the other! you know, a thin, fabric flag.....

My first thought was that this can't be real! - but sadly......
 
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Exactly - my very thoughts as I watched.

Actually, I had a LOL moment when they were claiming that the flag should have been light on one side, but dark on the other! you know, a thin, fabric flag.....

My first thought was that this can't be real! - but sadly......

'Tis very sad.

Most of the anomalies they have read about are so stunningly wrong.
No pun intended, but the real explanations aren't exactly rocket science.
 
This is a propaganda video and the people who made it knew they never went to the moon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4tk-3KeYNQ

At the 27:35 time mark the guy says the flag never moved when people walked by it. The first video in this link shows the flag move when the astronaut walked by it.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8014461&postcount=128

This video shows that the movement was consistent with atmosphere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0

It moved away as the astronaut was just about to go by it and then it moved back toward him after he'd gone by it. Anyone can duplicate that exact movement by experimenting at home.
 
At the 43:55 time mark they say that the reflectors on the moon are proof that the missions really happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4tk-3KeYNQ

They had the capability to soft-land robot craft on the moon that could have had adjustable laser reflectors attached to their sides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9geIwWTGQ
(1:17:25 time mark)

Reflectors on the moon are not proof that there were people on the moon.
 
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At the 43:55 time mark they say that the reflectors on the moon are proof that the missions really happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4tk-3KeYNQ

They had the capability to soft-land robot craft on the moon that could have had adjustable laser reflectors attached to their sides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9geIwWTGQ
(1:17:25 time mark)

Reflectors on the moon are not proof that there were people on the moon.

And of course you can provide evidence for the existence of this robotic hardware equal to that for the well documented manned hardware?
 
This is a propaganda video and the people who made it knew they never went to the moon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4tk-3KeYNQ

At the 27:35 time mark the guy says the flag never moved when people walked by it. The first video in this link shows the flag move when the astronaut walked by it.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8014461&postcount=128

This video shows that the movement was consistent with atmosphere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0

It moved away as the astronaut was just about to go by it and then it moved back toward him after he'd gone by it. Anyone can duplicate that exact movement by experimenting at home.

And you can explain the other videos where it doesn't move in similar circumstances? Or where other objects clearly behave as if they were in a vacuum? You really need to get this very clear; your cherry picking and vague speculating is going to persuade no one.
 
This is a propaganda video and the people who made it knew they never went to the moon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4tk-3KeYNQ

No, it's a debunking video and the people who made it, as do 99% of the people on this thread, know man landed on the Moon. If you claim people are making false claims, prove it. Especially since one of the people on that video is Jayutah.

At the 27:35 time mark the guy says the flag never moved when people walked by it. The first video in this link shows the flag move when the astronaut walked by it.

The astronaut brushed it with his elbow.

This video shows that the movement was consistent with atmosphere.

Rubbish. Air billows a flag when it moves it. It doesn't start it swinging like a pendulum for over 20 seconds (when speeded up to 150%).

Jarrah White did the experiment of running past a flag that stopped dead in 5 seconds, as opposed to the free swinging Apollo 15 flag of 30 seconds at the correct speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0RsDqmPa_s

It moved away as the astronaut was just about to go by it and then it moved back toward him after he'd gone by it. Anyone can duplicate that exact movement by experimenting at home.

Jarrah White couldn't - you can see it doesn't move until he is level with it, and it billows. If anything it should move more than the Apollo flag because it is perpendicular to his line of approach, as opposed to the flag on the Moon 45 degrees away from line of approach:rolleyes:

IMO it is either ground vibration or a blooming effect on the camera from the astronaut entering the frame right in front of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2uhMQXRegc


You're like a stuck record btw, you've been spamming this repeated rubbish for 4 years now. Why don't you show us your duplication of the movement in your home experiment - moving the same way for the same time. You can't.
 
And you can explain the other videos where it doesn't move in similar circumstances?
I've never seen any such footage. Could you please link to some of it?

The astronaut brushed it with his elbow.
This video show that the flag started moving when he wasn't close enough to touch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0

Rubbish. Air billows a flag when it moves it.
A big gust would make it billow but a very slight one wouldn't; it would only make it move the way it moves in the video.

Jarrah White did the experiment of running past a flag that stopped dead in 5 seconds
Heavier fabric would swing longer. Anyway, the theory is that the footage was shown in slow-motion so it's not going to look one hundred percent consistent with earth movement.

IMO it is either ground vibration or a blooming effect on the camera from the astronaut entering the frame right in front of it.
The above video I posted shows it to be clear movement so it couldn't be the blooming effect. Ground vibration would also cause the pole and the rod to move and they clearly don't move.

And of course you can provide evidence for the existence of this robotic hardware equal to that for the well documented manned hardware?
You know you're asking the impossible. If NASA flies a classified mission, nobody will have access to any evidence of such a mission. My not producing any evidence of such a mission doesn't prove that one didn't take place. The fact that they had the capability means it may have happened so reflectors on the moon are therefore no proof that there were people on the moon. You have an authoritative patronizing attitude but your argument is very weak.
 
This video show that the flag started moving when he wasn't close enough to touch it.

Yes, that is called missing my point. I said he touched it as he ran past it. Later in my quote I attribute the small movement to probably ground vibration. The lunar surface is a very good conductor of sound as seen from the seismic experiments.

A big gust would make it billow but a very slight one wouldn't; it would only make it move the way it moves in the video.

More rubbish. The flag clearly billows as White runs past it. This is just more of your abject denial of the obvious.

Heavier fabric would swing longer.

It isn't heavier fabric, it allows light though it, and why the hell would they use heavier fabric???

Anyway, the theory is that the footage was shown in slow-motion so it's not going to look one hundred percent consistent with earth movement.

Yes, everybody knows the silly old theories. I quoted a figure for movement adjusted for this. 20 seconds for a nylon SEE THROUGH flag is ridiculous.


The above video I posted shows it to be clear movement so it couldn't be the blooming effect. Ground vibration would also cause the pole and the rod to move and they clearly don't move.

They clearly do, more denial of the obvious by you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4gbMT-Zs2Y

So clearly obvious, you simply place your cursor on the flagpole full screen and it is moving. This when he is a full 4 feet away. I don't know what world of physics you live in, but air simply doesn't do that when pushed by a moving object.

ETA: You will just deny it whatever I say, so here are two frame grabs. Place the cursor on the left bottom corner of the flag - it moves, that is the flagpole. If you look close enough you can see the pole itself move!

009633469e8e903fabbeebc59cd5811c.gif
a4ca9aa4b152fddb2f2f2facfed8a64e.gif


You know you're asking the impossible. If NASA flies a classified mission, nobody will have access to any evidence of such a mission. My not producing any evidence of such a mission doesn't prove that one didn't take place.

This shows you have not the slightest clue about the size of rocket needed to put a payload safely on the Moon - and you claim an invisible launch took place with not one person seeing it, hearing it, tracking it, talking about it, or mentioning their involvement in the design of it. Pure woooooowooo.
 
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I've never seen any such footage. Could you please link to some of it?[

Tell you what you show some reason to take your claims seriously and I'll give it ago, case in point:

You know you're asking the impossible. If NASA flies a classified mission, nobody will have access to any evidence of such a mission.

Except you can't hide launches, especially not of moon rockets, and telemetry can be picked up by third parties, and of course designing and building such robots would involve vast numbers of people and masses of documentation so asking for such proof is far from impossible.

My not producing any evidence of such a mission doesn't prove that one didn't take place.

But it's a valid reason to dismiss your theory as junk when the collective evidence on the other side is so overwhelming.

The fact that they had the capability means it may have happened so reflectors on the moon are therefore no proof that there were people on the moon. You have an authoritative patronizing attitude but your argument is very weak.

And that's where you are making a mistake, this isn't about an argument its about evidence. The fact is that you lack any and the Apollo missions are supported by reams of it. Cherry picking a couple of video clips and claiming maybe something might have happened do not make a case.
 
This is a propaganda video and the people who made it knew they never went to the moon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4tk-3KeYNQ

At the 27:35 time mark the guy says the flag never moved when people walked by it. The first video in this link shows the flag move when the astronaut walked by it.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8014461&postcount=128

This video shows that the movement was consistent with atmosphere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0

It moved away as the astronaut was just about to go by it and then it moved back toward him after he'd gone by it. Anyone can duplicate that exact movement by experimenting at home.


LOL

Nobody is buying your nonsense.
 
FatFreddy88/DavidC, you claimed on this board that people like me (who are knowledgeable about space flight - unlike you - and disagree with your claims) do not believe what we are saying. I have asked you repeatedly (last in post 7985) to back up this claim. Stop dodging. Provide direct evidence for your claim that I don't believe Apollo went to the Moon - no idiotic YouTube loyalty tests - or retract the claim and apologize. This is a direct question, and I require a direct answer. Anything else will constitute your concession.
 
Reflectors on the moon are not proof that there were people on the moon.

The only thing this demonstrates is your lack of understanding regarding the LRRR. It wasn't just thrown down, it was designed to be put in place by the astronauts.

Why design an instrument in such a fashion if it was all a fake??
 
At the 43:55 time mark they say that the reflectors on the moon are proof that the missions really happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4tk-3KeYNQ

They had the capability to soft-land robot craft on the moon that could have had adjustable laser reflectors attached to their sides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9geIwWTGQ
(1:17:25 time mark)

Reflectors on the moon are not proof that there were people on the moon.

The existence of unmanned reflectors is not proof that that unmanned reflectors were used to fake Apollo. Suggesting something might have happened does not prove it actually happened.

Photographs from the LRO of the reflectors in the correct place and videos of the reflectors being carried to that location are proof. Data sent back by other equipment installed at the same time as the LRRR are further proof. Videos of the rockets launching carrying the men and equipment to the landing sites are also proof, as are the photographs showing consistent rotation of the Earth during the journey and the appearance and behaviour of weather systems (some of which was broadcast on live TV).

Your problem is that picking one piece of evidence and saying "could" does not prove "did", unlike the vast collections of evidence that definitely prove we went.
 
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