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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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TheL8Elvis said:
Don't forget : http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

He's lying too.

Oh yes http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239#.T3e5_atrMQJ

In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.

He's lying too.
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The mother of the 13 yr old described how the kid was pressured by police to say something he was unsure of.

And rather than lying, we know from evidence that eye witnesses make the kind of mistake the other witness may have made.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Don't forget : http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

He's lying too.

Oh yes http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239#.T3e5_atrMQJ

In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.

He's lying too.
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And that's the trouble with the jigsaw puzzle approach.. no matter how many pieces we can get to match up on 3 sides, there's always one that just doesn't quite fit.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Don't forget : http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

He's lying too.

Oh yes http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239#.T3e5_atrMQJ

In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.

He's lying too.
Click to expand...

Who said anyone was lying? It was dark and raining and two people were on the ground tussling. I suggested quite a ways back that an eyewitness possibly could see a black kid tussling with a white/hispanic guy and not process who the aggressor was. Witnesses routinely get confused. But voice analysis isn't nearly as subjective is it? Isn't this how they identified genuine Bin Laden tapes? I'd put my money on this over eye-witness testimony, which is often suspect, IMO.

But go right ahead and hand wave it away.
 
sgtbaker said:
He wasn't just punched in the face, though, the back of his head was also bleeding. When you are getting the snot kicked out of you, do you often sit an contemplate; hmm is this just bodily harm or is this great bodily harm?
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Where is the evidence for this claim? The only known video of him doesn't show any such damage.
 
totoro said:
Where is the evidence for this claim? The only known video of him doesn't show any such damage.
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Only known video? Whatever do you mean?

We've got the video showing Zimmeramn and Obama with Rev. Wright in 1960, the video showing the secret NWO code carved in Zimmerman's scalp, the video of Zimmerman being bitten by raccoons, the grassy knoll video...
 
defaultdotxbe said:
of course the counter claim to self defense is "It was murder/manslaughter" which also a positive claim requiring substantiation
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Not really, no. The positive claim is that Zimmerman killed Martin with a gun. This is not at issue in any way. This is also illegal in most circumstances. The positive claim that Zimmerman is making is that his homicide is a legal one because it was "self-defense".
 
Unabogie said:
Who said anyone was lying? It was dark and raining and two people were on the ground tussling. I suggested quite a ways back that an eyewitness possibly could see a black kid tussling with a white/hispanic guy and not process who the aggressor was. Witnesses routinely get confused. But voice analysis isn't nearly as subjective is it? Isn't this how they identified genuine Bin Laden tapes? I'd put my money on this over eye-witness testimony, which is often suspect, IMO.

But go right ahead and hand wave it away.
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I'm not hand waving it away.

It was dark ? But SG is certain it was light, because everyone would have their porch lights on.

And 'John' says he was 'yelling to me'. So he was mistaken.

And the expert using software selling on the domain owned by his daughters company (where he works) who threw out a number of 48% (?) that it wasn't a match trumps all that ? This is comparable to how the FBI does voice analysis now ?

Isn't it ok to be unconvinced yet ?
 
TheL8Elvis said:
I'm not hand waving it away.

It was dark ? But SG is certain it was light, because everyone would have their porch lights on.

And 'John' says he was 'yelling to me'. So he was mistaken.

And the expert using software selling on the domain owned by his daughters company (where he works) who threw out a number of 48% (?) that it wasn't a match trumps all that ? This is comparable to how the FBI does voice analysis now ?

Isn't it ok to be unconvinced yet ?
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The Tribune asked two different experts using two different methods. They are experts in the field and have been qualified to testify at trials. I think that's pretty strong evidence that it isn't Zimmerman screaming. You can keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out.

This is the nail in the coffin. Listen to that tape again. If it wasn't Zimmerman, then Trayvon is the one screaming in terror. And Zimmerman lied about it. If Trayvon is screaming for help like this, that makes Zimmerman a monster. Not a manslaughter case, but a murder case.
 
crimresearch said:
Only known video? Whatever do you mean?

We've got the video showing Zimmeramn and Obama with Rev. Wright in 1960, the video showing the secret NWO code carved in Zimmerman's scalp, the video of Zimmerman being bitten by raccoons, the grassy knoll video...
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I meant the video of Zimmerman at the police station in Sanford, where he appears not to have a broken nose, or any blood on him.
 
sgtbaker said:
Umm, the police report that says the back of his head was bleeding. Have you read it yet?
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I saw excerpts of a leaked police report, but nothing official. Can you post a link to the official one if you have it? I did some googling, but came up blank.

I did find a bunch of articles talking about the video of Zimmerman at the Sanford police station, some stills from the video, and some excerpts of it (I haven't made enough posts to post a link, or I'd post a couple). This is what led me to make my comments about Zimmerman and injuries.

Something about the Zimmerman (and, honestly, the police in Sanford) seems really off to me here, but hopefully the truth will out.
 
totoro said:
I saw excerpts of a leaked police report, but nothing official. Can you post a link to the official one if you have it? I did some googling, but came up blank.

I did find a bunch of articles talking about the video of Zimmerman at the Sanford police station, some stills from the video, and some excerpts of it (I haven't made enough posts to post a link, or I'd post a couple). This is what led me to make my comments about Zimmerman and injuries.

Something about the Zimmerman (and, honestly, the police in Sanford) seems really off to me here, but hopefully the truth will out.
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Those are what the police use to report what they observed and what actions they took. If you want to discount that because it doesn't fit your argument, I don't know what to tell you.
 
totoro said:
I meant the video of Zimmerman at the police station in Sanford, where he appears not to have a broken nose, or any blood on him.
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Yeah, that was discussed too... along with still shots from it showing lots of cuts, shots showing glare, shots showing nothing, along with discussion of how severe injuries would have to be to show up in a low res video a half hour after EMS had cleaned them up and treated them.

And as mentioned, the police at the scene seemed to have determined that there was blood, and injuries sufficient to ask EMS to look at them.

Like most of the other evidence so far, something isn't quite adding up.
 
sgtbaker said:
Those are what the police use to report what they observed and what actions they took. If you want to discount that because it doesn't fit your argument, I don't know what to tell you.
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What am I discounting? The video? The leaked police report? Nothing in that video supports a claim that he was injured. As another poster has pointed out, it can be argued that nothing in the video really argues against it, either.

Without some actual visual evidence, what do we have, their word? Perhaps you are willing to take them at it. I'm not.
 
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