Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[LTC8K6]

Nice find. Thanks.

It appears to say that starting the fight doesn't necessarily cancel your self-defense claim.

 

[LTC8K6]

In which case there would be very obvious matching scarring subsequently.

Keep in mind that at the time, I thought the video had been taken a few hours later. I did not know it had been taken so soon after the shooting.

 

[Information Analyst]

I've seen the comment:
The mortician remarked as well that there was no evidence of Travon having been in a fight either. No bruises or cuts on his hands that would be evident were he in a fight


I think a medical report and/or photos will trump a morticians evaluation of TM's hands. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Martin played football, right? Say Zimmerman was comming towards him, so Martin instinctively tackled him from the front, knocking him backwards and hitting his head on the path. Martin may then have jumped in him to restrain rather than punch him, and in that grappling process Zimmerman's nose got busted. Presumably there we'd be looking for bruising on ZImmerman's hands/wrists consistent with Martin grasping them.

Just a thought....

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

This thing should be temporarily closed down between each piece of official evidence. People spinning fairy tale what-if's? from a complete lack of evidence.

It's pure gut feeling and soap opera right now.

 

[LTC8K6]

This thing should be temporarily closed down between each piece of official evidence. People spinning fairy tale what-if's? from a complete lack of evidence.

It's pure gut feeling and soap opera right now.

Well, the story was that the official evidence was falsified to protect Zimmerman.

Unless you mean from the new investigations?

 

[Information Analyst]

And you can see the same sort of thing on all the cops with similar haircuts. That overhead light gives everyone some sort of temporary male pattern baldness and weird shadows.

One of those lights must be on me all the time...

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Well, the story was that the official evidence was falsified to protect Zimmerman.

Well he IS the nephew of the mayor, and comes from a family of cops...oh no wait, he's just some schlub. Why are they falsifying evidence to protect him again?

 

[Cylinder]

It occurred to me to wonder...we've focused alot on Zimmerman's blood, or lack thereof, in the surveillance video. But if events happened as Zimmerman and his father describe (very close range shooting, Martin had Zimmerman pinned and was was hitting him when the shot was fired into Martin's chest) shouldn't Martin's blood be on the front of Zimmerman's shirt?

I'm not a fan of those CSI shows so I have no expertise to call on.

It's impossible to say if visible blood would be expected. The police would look at the nature of the wound, where the blood evidence (if any) presented itself and the nature of the claim to see if the suspect's narrative actually fit the evidence. In the hypothetical you describe, I would expect some trace blood to be present from blowback. The problem is that I'm not an expert in blood spatter and I don't know the actual particulars.

 

[Cylinder]

It appears to say that starting the fight doesn't necessarily cancel your self-defense claim.

Yea. Like everything else it seems, the paticular instructions are dependent on what the narrative presented by the hypothetical defendant.

 

[WildCat]

Sure would've helped if the police had actually gathered evidence from the scene and from the killer. Apparently all the evidence we have now and will ever have is from third-parties (and remote video cameras; and from a person who spoke on the phone to the victim up to his death but has never been interviewed by police).

"Evidence" seems pretty damned subjective and haphazardly gained/ignored in this particular case.

A lot af false assumptions there Dragoonster. Much evidence was collected (including the clothing wore by Zimmerman and Martin), but it's not in public domain since it's an ongoing case.

 

[SomedayGirl]

I just found it odd considering the description of the events - Zimmerman's bloody nose and Martin's proximity when shot - that there are no obvious stains of any kind at all on the front of Zimmerman's shirt. The focus got shifted to a lack of grass stains on his back in the surveillance video but that could be hard to see on a red jacket. However, dark blood stains on the grey shirt should be pretty easy to spot and we get a couple different relatively long looks at the shirt. Perhaps Zimmerman's jacket had been zipped up at the time of the incident. I just found it perplexing that there's nothing there.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

A lot af false assumptions there Dragoonster. Much evidence was collected (including the clothing wore by Zimmerman and Martin), but it's not in public domain since it's an ongoing case.

Not letting every huckster and talking head go over every shred of evidence (and irrevocably taint the case) = the police have no evidence.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Isn't Z's father a lawyer, or at least involved with and familiar with law? He could have been the one counseling him at that point.

No Actually IDK, yes (VA law) and possibly.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

No, yes and possibly.

That post should just be stickied to the thread and we can save the next 100 pages

 

[LTC8K6]

I just found it odd considering the description of the events - Zimmerman's bloody nose and Martin's proximity when shot - that there are no obvious stains of any kind at all on the front of Zimmerman's shirt. The focus got shifted to a lack of grass stains on his back in the surveillance video but that could be hard to see on a red jacket. However, dark blood stains on the grey shirt should be pretty easy to spot and we get a couple different relatively long looks at the shirt. Perhaps Zimmerman's jacket had been zipped up at the time of the incident. I just found it perplexing that there's nothing there.

Broken nose/punched in the nose does not automatically mean gushing blood or obvious injury. Especially since the video is only a half hour after the incident.

Gunshot wounds don't necessarily bleed profusely, either. Loose clothing like a sweatshirt can prevent a lot of blow-back and blood from getting on the shooter as well.

 

[Cylinder]

I just found it odd considering the description of the events - Zimmerman's bloody nose and Martin's proximity when shot - that there are no obvious stains of any kind at all on the front of Zimmerman's shirt.

How can you predict that there was signifigant blood loss?

If there was signifigant blood loss, how can you predict that the blood loss occurred immediately?

If there was signifigant and immediate blood loss, how can you predict that it presented itself in such a manner that it would be expected to be on Zimmerman?

Without autopsy results and forensic reconstruction it's impoosible to say what should be expected.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

*speculation*

My best guess is these leaks are probably simply promoney.

In my naivete, I don't consider that. Sounds likely.

 

[Checkmite]

Trayvon's email and social media accounts hacked

The hacker, who goes by the name Klanklannon, posted what he said were Martin's private Facebook messages to the politics section (NSFW) of the anarchic message board 4chan—called "/pol/"—Tuesday afternoon at around noon. The messages were posted on four slides, strategically arranged to back up the insane racist argument that Trayvon was a Scary Black Teenager and so somehow deserved to be killed by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman that night.

A slide titled "Trayvon Martin Used Marijuana Habitually," features an exchange between Trayvon and a friend about getting high. Another slide, "Trayvon Martin was a Drug Dealer" features Facebook messages and photos that supposedly prove Martin dealt drugs, including a picture of Martin posing "aggressively with a large amount of cash in his hand." It's impossible to verify the hacked messages' authenticity—like other anti-Trayvon Martin propaganda, they're probably a mix of real and fake content— but they are now being passed around as gospel among the racist underbelly of the internet, including message boards like the neo-Nazi hive Stormfront, which Klanklannon apparently frequents.

In addition to the Facebook messages, Klanklannon posted a list of usernames and passwords for Martin's social media and email accounts as proof of his exploits. All of the passwords had been changed to racist slurs.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Removed breaches of Rule 10.

The list included login details for Martin's Gmail, Yahoo, MySpace, and Twitter accounts. A source who came across the 4chan post when it was live was able to use the information to log onto Martin's Gmail account Tuesday night. Our source panicked upon seeing that trolls had started using the account to send emails under Martin's name, and deleted the account. (An email sent to Martin's Gmail address bounced back today; Martin's Twitter account has also been deactivated. His MySpace page is still up, showing that the last login was Tuesday.)

But Klanklannon included none of Martin's emails in his leak, because the picture they paint is of a normal high school junior preparing for college. A screenshot of Trayvon's Gmail inbox our source provided us is heartbreaking. Martin apparently used his Gmail account for his college search, and it's filled with emails about upcoming SAT tests and scholarship applications. ("Trayvon, now is the best time to take the SATs!") One email included the results of a career aptitude test, our source said. It "talked about his interest in aeronautics and stuff."

So, yeah.

 

[Dragoonster]

Thanks for the info on evidence, WildCat and Dancing David!

 

[SomedayGirl]

Cylinder, all of those questions are valid. As I said I don't know much about ballistics or bleed out from close range gunshot wounds. I was just surprised at exactly how clean the front of Zimmerman's shirt was. There may be a completely reasonable explanation for that, zipped jacket seeming to be the most obvious.