Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[triforcharity]

From what I understand it was raining heavily, couldn't that be a factor??

It was barely sprinkling at the time of the shooting.

Between the hours of 5:53 and 7:53, there was .03" of rain.

You can review that here.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Hope that helps.

 

[triforcharity]

Not necessarily true at all. It's not uncommon for people who have been shot to have very little external bleeding. Sometimes a body is found and it isn't until the autopsy that it is discovered that they were shot, all the bleeding is internal.

While true, this is not what I was speaking about.

I was speaking more about splatter. Or, (Speculation) if Zimmerman claimed Martin was on top of him, if he fired point blank, he would have a large amount of noticeable blood on him.

 

[WildCat]

If you are going to claim there is no evidence Zimmerman was doing [x], fine. But to turn around and say therefore there is evidence Trayvon was doing [y], you are being hypocritical.

Either there is evidence of what happened or there isn't.

I asked you what evidence there is that Zimmerman intended to detain Martin.

 

[WildCat]

Which would have been noticed either way. Blood spray and other particulate would show up quite easily.

Blowback (As Crimresearch said also) would have been noticeable. And something like that should have been important enough to mention in an initial report.

Even through 2 layers of clothing, one of them a sweatshirt?

I think the presence or not of powder residue/burns burns on Martin's clothes would be more informative.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

While true, this is not what I was speaking about.

I was speaking more about splatter. Or, (Speculation) if Zimmerman claimed Martin was on top of him, if he fired point blank, he would have a large amount of noticeable blood on him.

By point blank, do you mean actually contact with the gun or perhaps like a foot away? If the latter, I'll disagree that he would be covered in blood if Trayvon wore several layers of clothing.

 

[Checkmite]

It is not true that Zimmerman intended to meet with police officers at the street. He and the dispatcher discussed doing so, and then Zimmerman changed his mind:

Dispatcher: "Okay, do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?"

Zimmerman: "Yeah that's fine."

Dispatcher: "All right George, I'll let them know to meet you around there, okay?"

Zimmerman: "Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?"

Dispatcher: "Okay, yeah that's no problem."

...at which point the dispatcher verifies Zimmerman's phone number and says the responding officers will call him when they enter the area so that he could direct them to where he was. Obviously Zimmerman didn't know yet where he was going to be, but had certainly decided it wasn't going to be at his vehicle as originally planned. So no, he was evidently not going back to his vehicle at the time of the altercation.

 

[RandFan]

By point blank, do you mean actually contact with the gun or perhaps like a foot away?

Point blank. Close enough that no adjustment in elevation is required.

 

[Travis]

Nowhere in the law does it mention deadly force for a property crime.

Here's the entire text of the law.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Burglary to an occupied dwelling is a forcible felony. It falls under home invasion robbery.

Here's the specific text.



Looting is NOT a forcible felony.

Sorry.

Are you sure about that? Because NBC specifically stated the intention of the law was to enable the shooting of looters. It seems this all stemmed from a shooting following Hurricane Ike.

Really all this is beside the point. It's irrelevant to talk about what a law is meant to do. All that really matters is how a law is actually being used. And we've clearly seen that if not for a media storm Zimmerman would have never been investigated beyond the initial SPD one that cleared him.

 

[triforcharity]

Even through 2 layers of clothing, one of them a sweatshirt?

Yes.

I think the presence or not of powder residue/burns burns on Martin's clothes would be more informative.

I would agree 100%, but the report from the ME is not public as of yet.

 

[Travis]

You know I'm thinking that maybe we should split the discussion about the "Stand Your Ground" law off to another thread. And just leave this one to discuss the particulars of this case.

 

[triforcharity]

By point blank, do you mean actually contact with the gun or perhaps like a foot away? If the latter, I'll disagree that he would be covered in blood if Trayvon wore several layers of clothing.

Without having to adjust for elevation or bullet drop. I would call point blank anything less than 5 feet, but that is strictly opinion.

And I base this on personal experience.

 

[crimresearch]

By point blank, do you mean actually contact with the gun or perhaps like a foot away? If the latter, I'll disagree that he would be covered in blood if Trayvon wore several layers of clothing.

A couple of layers of cotton vs. a bullet, would prevent the effects described?

Or by 'clothing' did you mean Kevlar?

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

A couple of layers of cotton vs. a bullet, would prevent the effects described?

Or by 'clothing' did you mean Kevlar?

Of couse not. I meant that the clothes could prevent a significant amount of blowback from the victim. A bullet through clothing does not leave a round hole in it.

 

[triforcharity]

Are you sure about that? Because NBC specifically stated the intention of the law was to enable the shooting of looters. It seems this all stemmed from a shooting following Hurricane Ike.

I've not found that connection, but I would suppose it could be possible.

Here's the bill as it was presented.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/Stand-Your-Ground-Law-2005.pdf

Looting isn't mentioned, nor is it a forcible felony. It's a felony, yes.

Really all this is beside the point. It's irrelevant to talk about what a law is meant to do. All that really matters is how a law is actually being used. And we've clearly seen that if not for a media storm Zimmerman would have never been investigated beyond the initial SPD one that cleared him.

I will agree 100%. I will also agree that it needs to be clarified to be more specific.

I also think that there should be a law that says you cannot be on a volunteer patrol like neighborhood watch, and carry a firearm while performing that community service.

 

[WildCat]

Without having to adjust for elevation or bullet drop. I would call point blank anything less than 5 feet, but that is strictly opinion.

And I base this on personal experience.

It actually depends on how your sights are adjusted. Point blank can be 10 yards, it can be 200 yards.

 

[WildCat]

The picture of Trayvon in the football picture calls him a junior in high school. He was 17 when killed. That pretty much suggests that picture is a current one and that is what he looked like. Trying to claim these images are a false representation of him are suspect.

He stopped playing football when he was 14, so that pic is at least 3 years old.

The son of divorced parents, he grew up in working-class neighborhoods north of Miami's downtown. He and his father, a truck driver, were active in the Miramar Optimist Club, an organization that runs sports and academic programs for young people. Tracy Martin, the teen's father, coached his son's football team.

The boy was a swift athlete, according to a friend, and played a range of positions up to about age 14. After he stopped playing, he remained active in the organization, volunteering six days a week from June through November of last year to help run the team's concession stand.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20120323/46281cfa-e0d4-45d9-852e-38faf5f3a6ff

 

[leftysergeant]

Here's a rather disturbing video of police in Africa shooting a shirtless man, who dies soon after. While there is some bleeding it's not spurting out all over.

Again, this video shows a man being killed, do not watch it if this will disturb you!

Now show us one of a person being shot with something equivalent to a 9mm. That was a non-lethal anti riot round fire by a *********** moron.

 

[leftysergeant]

He stopped playing football when he was 14, so that pic is at least 3 years old.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20120323/46281cfa-e0d4-45d9-852e-38faf5f3a6ff

He was still active in youth sports, but sounds like he was more into mentoring than participating.

I'm still waiting for proof that the gangsta pics exist.

 

[ravdin]

He was still active in youth sports, but sounds like he was more into mentoring than participating.

I'm still waiting for proof that the gangsta pics exist.

I also await the pics with baited breath, but I don't think WC made that particular claim.

 

[leftysergeant]

Now that we are hearing that the police recommended a manslaughter charge in their report, I have to wonder what led them to that specific charge.

There was no clear evidence available to the slob who wrote that recommendation that the shooter intended any crime. It apparently didn't dawn on him that the attempt to detain Martin was, per se, a crime.

If there is no criminal intent prior to the shooting, it is manslaughter. If it is the result of another crime, it is murder.