What's so fantastic about Apple?

[TheL8Elvis]

I think it's a good metric for missed opportunity/wasted potential.

That said, I also think the iPad fills Apple's low/mid-range PC price gap nicely. As time goes on, I expect people to discover they use their desktops/laptops less than they would/do use their tablets. For example, the people in my family who use computers for purely light home office/recreational purposes could easily switch to iPads that (with a Bluetooth keyboard and vertical stand) would meet all their needs.

Well, if you want to go down the road of ipad = low/mid-range pc , then:

Apple as top personal computer vendor

However, according to Gartner, HP shipped 14.7 million PCs in the last quarter. While we don’t have the total global figure for Apple, my estimates are 5.2 million Macs and 14.7 million iPads, for a total of 19.9 million computers in the same period.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I think it's a good metric for missed opportunity/wasted potential.

Maybe.

But isn't it analogous to saying that Mercedes Benz has a very poor showing in the sub $20,000 auto market, indicating a missed opportunity/wasted potential?

Knowing one's market is important. Does anyone remember the Cadillac Cimmaron? Bottom fishing for the low end of the marketplace can hurt brand image more than it ends up helping the bottom line.

If the purpose of a business is to make money, then money is the best metric, and Apple has made a ton of it.

Go Apple!

 

[Babbylonian]

But isn't it analogous to saying that Mercedes Benz has a very poor showing in the sub $20,000 auto market, indicating a missed opportunity/wasted potential?

That analogy has always seemed like more of an excuse than a reason to me. Few people over the years (mostly Mac owners/users) ever believed that a Mac would provide them with any significant benefits over a DOS/Windows PC. With luxury cars, the benefits are usually tangible; more comfortable interiors, smoother rides, more powerful engines, etc. Granted, that's not always true but the perception is there at least.

With a Mac, the only tangible difference day to day was a different operating system and that could be a negative rather than a positive depending on the desired use.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Few people over the years (mostly Mac owners/users) ever believed that a Mac would provide them with any significant benefits over a DOS/Windows PC.

What? I'd say nearly everyone who ever bought and then used a Mac believed that. At least enough to incentivize them to buy one. And another. And then another. Apple has a very loyal consumer base. If the Mac did not provide them with at least the perception of "significant benefits, I don't see why that would be the case.

With a Mac, the only tangible difference day to day was a different operating system and that could be a negative rather than a positive depending on the desired use.

So, you're saying that depending on the desired use, a Mac may be better or worse that it's competition? I'll stipulate to that!

Anyway, the point of the Mercedes analogy was to point out that a company may select certain markets in which to compete and others to ignore, not that Apple and Mercedes both reflect some "luxury class", worthy of a premium price.

 

[Driftwood]

I like Apple's design. I like the operating system's aesthetic. Now, I currently don't own an Apple (I use an HP), but Apple just looks beautiful. 2x the price beautiful? Eh, not really. Still, you can get used Apple systems for great deals, so it balances out.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

One area of legitimate criticism regarding apple product pricing is the extortionate price you pay for internal storage memory on their iOS range of products. For instance in the UK you pay £80 for the additional 16Gb for a 32Gb iPad.

Given that all those drives can be had for less than the markup, one can only assume that Apple is attaching the "Apple tax" to the increase in storage space.

Galaxy Tab

$100 more for 16 -> 32 GB

sony tablet S

$100 more for 16 -> 32 GB

Motorola droid xyboard (or xoom, if you can find it)

$100 more for 16 -> 32 GB

Asus ee pad/transformer (best buy)

$100 more for 16 -> 32 GB

Nook tablet

$50 more for 8 -> 16 GB

I could go on ...

What a great criticism of apple ... and everyone other major tablet manufacturer, too, apparently.

I'm not trying to make the argument that just because all these manufacturers are doing it, it means it's justified. (Although, that might be a good starting point for making that case.)

But sure, let's single out apple, and call it the 'extortionate apple tax' ...

 

[Darat]

Galaxy Tab

$100 more for 16 -> 32 GB

Tu quoque is a logical fallacy.

 

[Babbylonian]

But sure, let's single out apple, and call it the 'extortionate apple tax' ...

What Darat said, plus some of those devices have memory card slots, allowing expansion with [micro]SD cards.

 

[kajata]

Tu quoque is a logical fallacy.

oh logical fallacy, logical schmallacy. People were singling out Apple for marking up the memory so much and it seems many of the big competitors are doing it. It's certainly worth pointing out.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Tu quoque is a logical fallacy.

Yes, it is. What fallacious argument did I make ?

You made a bald assertion that the price difference for iOS products for increasing storage from 16 -> 32 GB is extortionate.

I have provided evidence that apple is following industry standard pricing. I specifically stated I was not arguing that makes it justified.

It's up to you to prove your claim that it's extortionate.

 

[Babbylonian]

oh logical fallacy, logical schmallacy. People were singling out Apple for marking up the memory so much and it seems many of the big competitors are doing it. It's certainly worth pointing out.

For one thing, Apple is a pioneer in the area. They did the same thing with iPod, iPhone, and iPod Touch.

For another, the fallacy is in the implicit assumption that criticizing Apple means that one isn't critical of the pricing policies of those other companies. This is a thread about Apple, thus "singling [them] out" is entirely appropriate.

 

[kajata]

For one thing, Apple is a pioneer in the area. They did the same thing with iPod, iPhone, and iPod Touch.

For another, the fallacy is in the implicit assumption that criticizing Apple means that one isn't critical of the pricing policies of those other companies. This is a thread about Apple, thus "singling [them] out" is entirely appropriate.

You're right. I'll note it in the awfully quiet "what's so fantastic about Android" thread.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

For one thing, Apple is a pioneer in the area. They did the same thing with iPod, iPhone, and iPod Touch.

For another, the fallacy is in the implicit assumption that criticizing Apple means that one isn't critical of the pricing policies of those other companies. This is a thread about Apple, thus "singling [them] out" is entirely appropriate.

I disagree.

This is a thread about what's so fantastic about apple , not a thread about what apple does the same as the rest of the industry.

If the entire industry is engaged in extortionate pricing, that makes apple no better or worse than the rest of the industry.
In that case, criticizing the industry as a whole is more useful and honest than singling out 1 manufacturer. ( assuming it's a valid criticism on their pricing, something that has not been demonstrated)

 

[Babbylonian]

You're right. I'll note it in the awfully quiet "what's so fantastic about Android" thread.

Again, most Android phones/tablets have options for memory expansion. Apple doesn't do that, at least partially to ensure that when people want more memory they have to buy a new/better Apple device.

FWIW, the only reason I started looking at this thread is that I bought a used iPad 2 from a friend (and also saw his lovely new RetinaPad) because I do think it's fantastic and, so far, I've come to like IOS better than Android. I'm certainly not trying to push an anti-Apple agenda.

 

[Darat]

Again, most Android phones/tablets have options for memory expansion. Apple doesn't do that, at least partially to ensure that when people want more memory they have to buy a new/better Apple device.

FWIW, the only reason I started looking at this thread is that I bought a used iPad 2 from a friend (and also saw his lovely new RetinaPad) because I do think it's fantastic and, so far, I've come to like IOS better than Android. I'm certainly not trying to push an anti-Apple agenda.

Unfortunately for some folk in this thread just not declaring everything that Apple ever has or ever will do is fantastic is taken as some form of heresy - Apple does everything perfectly don't you know!

 

[kajata]

Unfortunately for some folk in this thread just not declaring everything that Apple ever has or ever will do is fantastic is taken as some form of heresy - Apple does everything perfectly don't you know!

Putting aside the snarkiness and strawmen...I don't like paying $100 for 16 GB of memory. Especially when you only have to pay $100 for 32 GB of memory for the next spec bump.

But I appreciate when people point out it's not just Apple doing this. All the big boys are. It's worth pointing out to put a rest to some silly claims like "the Apple tax" being the reason for it. Unless maybe, Apple is applying an Apple tax to competitors' products. But I doubt that is happening.

 

[Darat]

Putting aside the snarkiness and strawmen...I don't like paying $100 for 16 GB of memory. Especially when you only have to pay $100 for 32 GB of memory for the next spec bump.

Snarky yes, but not a strawman.

But I appreciate when people point out it's not just Apple doing this. All the big boys are. It's worth pointing out to put a rest to some silly claims like "the Apple tax" being the reason for it. Unless maybe, Apple is applying an Apple tax to competitors' products. But I doubt that is happening.

But that is the problem in this thread - for some reason a legitimate (of course in my not humble opinion) criticism is seen as something only an "Apple hater" would dare to say. Which is funny when you think what the likes of say Babbylonian or I have actually posted in this thread.

I'm no more an "Apple hater" than I am a Cadbury hater because I prefer Galaxy milk chocolate, indeed that's a good analogy as I still prefer the original Cadbury Cream Egg to any of the new boys on the block wwn though I don't prefer their milk chocolate.

Don't you think it weird how defensive some folk get when it involves Apple and exhibit a behaviour which demonstrates that they take any even slight criticism of a company (for goodness sake a company) as a personal matter?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Don't you think it weird how defensive some folk get when it involves Apple and exhibit a behaviour which demonstrates that they take any even slight criticism of a company (for goodness sake a company) as a personal matter?

Way to address the argument. From a mod, no less.

 

[kajata]

Don't you think it weird how defensive some folk get when it involves Apple and exhibit a behaviour which demonstrates that they take any even slight criticism of a company (for goodness sake a company) as a personal matter?

Don't you think some people are also just having fun poking "the other side" in the thread? Threads like this, to me at least, are the equivalent of sports fans ragging each other about how much the opposing team sucks. Silly, immature, but sometimes fun to participate in. But in the grand scheme of things, I really don't give a crap all that much.

 

[Darat]

Don't you think some people are also just having fun poking "the other side" in the thread? Threads like this, to me at least, are the equivalent of sports fans ragging each other about how much the opposing team sucks. Silly, immature, but sometimes fun to participate in. But in the grand scheme of things, I really don't give a crap all that much.

Of course some of it is just ribbing and a bit of fun but it really doesn't seem that way for some folks, to them it is deadly serious - it's a "How dare you say my mother is not the best mum in the world!!!!". I find it a fascinating phenomena. And (another) of course it isn't just in regards to Apple you see this type of behaviour but this thread is about Apple.

Personally I think this gets right to the heart of the question raised in the opening post, Apple has had about a decade of outstanding marketing and some good, some excellent and some not-so-good products to go with that but it is their marketing that has been consistently fantastic.