Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[SnakeTongue]

The holocaust happened..those who disagree HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROVING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Your post only demonstrates your ignorance regarding this simple FACT.

Simple fact? Or... Fiction?

Let me understand:

1. I do not believe in the existence of someone called Jesus Christ because I never met such person or never heard about him.

2. One day a Jehovah Witness knock on my door and try to convince me the Jesus Christ person existed. But not just that, the Jehovah Witness try to convince me the alleged person died in a cross and resurrect three days after.

3. Astonished, I ask the Jehovah Witness where I can find evidence of such amazing event. The Jehovah Witness pick up his bible and start to present me excerpts describing the death and resurrection of the alleged Jesus Christ.

4. Then, to be sure that I am not being fooled into believe in something which did not existed, I ask the Jehovah Witness if there is any forensic evidence left by Jesus Christ.

5. The Jehovah Witness get excited and explain to me that was nothing left, but Jesus Christ really existed because the bible was write by honest people which witnessed the existence of Jesus Christ.

6. I become suspicious. I polite dispense the Jehovah Witness and phone a friend of mine which is is a historian. When he answer I ask him if there is forensic evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ.

7. He explain to me there is indeed evidence which proves the existence of the witness, but not the existence of Jesus Christ.

8. I become puzzled. I ask him why should not Jesus Christ exist if there is the evidence of the witness existence.

9. He explain to me that when a cross-reference search is made to discover the existence of Jesus Christ, nothing appear to prove his existence. That means the witness which wrote the bible are speaking about a character which is not cited in any Roman empire manuscripts wrote during the supposed existence of Jesus Christ.

10. Therefore, there is a whole range of books asserting the Jesus Christ existence, but there is no direct evidence of his existence.

The existence of Jesus Christ and his supposed resurection is a proven fact or a proven fiction?

 

[uke2se]

Simple fact? Or... Fiction?

Let me understand:

1. I do not believe in the existence of someone called Jesus Christ because I never met such person or never heard about him.

2. One day a Jehovah Witness knock on my door and try to convince me the Jesus Christ person existed. But not just that, the Jehovah Witness try to convince me the alleged person died in a cross and resurrect three days after.

3. Astonished, I ask the Jehovah Witness where I can find evidence of such amazing event. The Jehovah Witness pick up his bible and start to present me excerpts describing the death and resurrection of the alleged Jesus Christ.

4. Then, to be sure that I am not being fooled into believe in something which did not existed, I ask the Jehovah Witness if there is any forensic evidence left by Jesus Christ.

5. The Jehovah Witness get excited and explain to me that was nothing left, but Jesus Christ really existed because the bible was write by honest people which witnessed the existence of Jesus Christ.

6. I become suspicious. I polite dispense the Jehovah Witness and phone a friend of mine which is is a historian. When he answer I ask him if there is forensic evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ.

7. He explain to me there is indeed evidence which proves the existence of the witness, but not the existence of Jesus Christ.

8. I become puzzled. I ask him why should not Jesus Christ exist if there is the evidence of the witness existence.

9. He explain to me that when a cross-reference search is made to discover the existence of Jesus Christ, nothing appear to prove his existence. That means the witness which wrote the bible are speaking about a character which is not cited in any Roman empire manuscripts wrote during the supposed existence of Jesus Christ.

10. Therefore, there is a whole range of books asserting the Jesus Christ existence, but there is no direct evidence of his existence.

The existence of Jesus Christ and his supposed resurection is a proven fact or a proven fiction?

Comparing the supposed divinity of a 2000 year old carpenter with the greatest mass murder in recorded history = pretty much the biggest fail I've seen on these forums, and I've seen people actually trying to fail.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Actually, we've provided you lots of pieces of evidence. You simply refuse to look at them:

NO! NO WAY!

I am not a fool!

What was presented until now was interpretations of other people, not the evidence itself.

Where is the documents of the mass extermination plans? The documents of the homicidal gas chambers?

This is becoming a annoying.

This situation is equivalent to me ask if there really existed the tank Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. E among the German army only to be provided with testimonies of people which supposed spotted the tank, rather than pictures of the tank, documents of the tank, sketches of the tank, films of the tank, testimonies of the tank operators.

I will repeat: I have being doing military research. When I research about the Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. I can find hundreds of pictures, films, sketches, testimonies of tank operators.

So when you will provide the evidence, not the already "chewed" interpretation?

Something you're entirely unequipped to do, even if you were prepared to examine the originals yourself.

Who you think you are to judge if I am prepared or not to interpret myself the evidence?

But all of the works we've given you cite their sources, and you're more than welcome to go to the archives yourself, if the reproduction and interpretation of these documents (such as in Pressac's book) by a thousands of historians across decades of time isn't good enough for you.

I made and there is not one single piece of evidence which I asked!

I can't help but note that despite your disgruntlement at being given "essays" to read and not the actual "evidence" when you ask here, you're apparently perfectly happy with the denier "essays" you've quoted, without a single piece of actual evidence provided or referenced by them.

There are essays of the revisionists which I dot no agree as well!

No, there isn't. There's the report of a longtime denier for use at the trial of another denier, which is trivially proven wrong simply by reading the links I myself have given you.

Which is no doubt why you haven't read them.

Ooops...by saying "speculation over a fictional event", you're really giving yourself away here.

There are lots of documents about that, many of which were cited and quoted in the links I and LemmyCaution gave you.

If you think 1939 was in "the last years of the war", you probably should stop pretending to study military history and start studying some remedial history.

Pretending?

Where did I said the war end in 1939?

Assumptions after assumptions...

 

[uke2se]

NO! NO WAY!

Yes! Yes way!

I am not a fool!

I know people who would disagree.

What was presented until now was interpretations of other people, not the evidence itself.

More evidence that you A: don't read the links provided for you, B: don't even read people's posts, and C: have no idea how history is researched.

Where is the documents of the mass extermination plans? The documents of the homicidal gas chambers?

What kind of documents would you accept? Some have already been provided, so you're going to have to be more specific.

This is becoming a annoying.

Yes, you sure are starting to become annoying, but you're still too hilarious to ignore.

This situation is equivalent to me ask if there really existed the tank Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. E among the German army only to be provided with testimonies of people which supposed spotted the tank, rather than pictures of the tank, documents of the tank, sketches of the tank, films of the tank, testimonies of the tank operators.

No, the situation is not equivalent to that at all.

I will repeat: I have being doing military research.

Googling isn't research.

When I research about the Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. I can find hundreds of pictures, films, sketches, testimonies of tank operators.

As you would of any non-mass murder engineering project.

So when you will provide the evidence, not the already "chewed" interpretation?

You have been provided with that. It is quite frankly insulting that you keep asking for what you've already been given, even after fellow forum members have been nice enough to do YOUR legwork for YOU. I mean, you only get so far by being as lazy as you.

Now, I would like for you to provide film or pictures of Jeffrey Dahmer murdering anyone. If you cannot, that means he never murdered anyone according to your logic.

Go!

Who you think you are to judge if I am prepared or not to interpret my self evidence?

A more intelligent person than you, that's who he is.

I made and there is not one single piece of evidence which I asked!

Yes there is, and you never went to the archives, you liar.

There are essays of the revisionists which I dot no agree as well!

We know. Revisionists are actual historians, after all and you piss on people who know more than you. The people you embrace aren't revisionists. They are deniers and liars.

Pretending?

Yes, pretending. Again, googling isn't researching.

Where did I said the war end in 1939?

In your posts in this thread. Of course, you didn't use the exact words or grammar, but then again, you can't express yourself very well in English, so that's not surprising.

Assumptions after assumptions...

Maybe you should stop making them?

 

[SnakeTongue]

Comparing the supposed divinity of a 2000 year old carpenter with the greatest mass murder in recorded history = pretty much the biggest fail I've seen on these forums, and I've seen people actually trying to fail.

Where is the records of such mass murder?

Where?

This is the apex of failure: you trying to affirm the holocaust as the greatest mass murder in recorded history without provide one single document which proves the death toll!

FAIL...

 

[uke2se]

Where is the records of such mass murder?

Where?

You do realize that other people reading this thread are going to see you asking for evidence, and when given that evidence failing to read it or even acknowledge its existence. What do you think those people are going to think of you?

This is the apex of failure: you trying to affirm the holocaust as the greatest mass murder in recorded history without provide one single document which proves the death toll!

Except for the heaps and heaps of evidence already provided that you have chosen to ignore.

FAIL...

Yes, you really are. A huge one.

 

[A'isha]

I am not a fool!

Objection, your honor! Assuming facts not in evidence!

Where is the documents of the mass extermination plans?

Described and quoted and cited and even reproduced in the links I gave you. Here.

The documents of the homicidal gas chambers?

Described and quoted and cited and even reproduced in the links I gave you. Especially by Pressac. Here.

This is becoming a annoying.

You're telling me.

This situation is equivalent to me ask if there really existed the tank Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. E among the German army only to be provided with testimonies of people which supposed spotted the tank, rather than pictures of the tank, documents of the tank, sketches of the tank, films of the tank, testimonies of the tank operators.

I will repeat: I have being doing military research. When I research about the Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. I can find hundreds of pictures, films, sketches, testimonies of tank operators.

Oh, look...someone who is a German military fetishist and a holocaust denier. How...unusual.

So when you will provide the evidence, not the already "chewed" interpretation?

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Who you think you are to judge if I am prepared or not to interpret myself the evidence?

Someone who's seen and interacted with plenty of people exactly like you before.

Pretending?

Where did I said the war end in 1939?

When you tried to dismiss the document we quoted for you by comparing it to Germany's military situation in the "later years of the war".

 

[uke2se]

Objection, your honor! Assuming facts not in evidence!



Described and quoted and cited and even reproduced in the links I gave you. Here.



Described and quoted and cited and even reproduced in the links I gave you. Especially by Pressac. Here.



You're telling me.



Oh, look...someone who is a German military fetishist and a holocaust denier. How...unusual.



Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.



Someone who's seen and interacted with plenty of people exactly like you before.



When you tried to dismiss the document we quoted for you by comparing it to Germany's military situation in the "later years of the war".

Why bother? He's just going to glance over this post, exclaim "not what I ask for" and rinse and repeat his vapid request for "evidence". After all, to CTs like him, evidence is only the stuff that agrees with his predetermined position.

 

[LemmyCaution]

He seems to think that readers of this thread are not familiar with the contents, say, of Pressac and the documents he includes. How odd. In actuality, among the links provided are both primary sources and discussions of those sources. He ignores both. In typical discourse about history, the analyses of historians are pertinent, and when someone disagrees with a historian's conclusions, the person generally doesn't flap around crying, "Fail! Religion! No evidence!" What the person does is show how the historian's interpretation is wrong.

Of course, we are dealing with a different phenomenon here - someone who disagrees with every historian. It is as though someone decided to engage in discussion of the American Civil War - by denying that slavery existed because no video of it existed.

 

[SnakeTongue]

comparing the supposed divinity of a 2000 year old carpenter with the greatest mass murder in recorded history = pretty much the biggest fail i've seen on these forums, and i've seen people actually trying to fail.

source list and detailed death tolls for the primary megadeaths of the twentieth century

walker, robert l., the human cost of communism in china (1971, report to the us senate committee of the judiciary) "casualties to communism" (deaths):

1st civil war (1927-36): .25-.5m

fighting during sino-japanese war (1937-45): 50,000

2nd civil war (1945-49): 1.25m

land reform prior to liberation: 0.5-1.0m

political liquidation campaigns: 15-30m

guinness book of world records:

Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare mao to be the top dog in the mass killings category, earlier editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which are similar, but not identical, to the glaser & possony sources:

on 7 apr. 1969 the soviet government radio reported that 26,300,000 people were killed in china, 1949-65.

In april 1971 the cabinet of the government of taiwan reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.

The walker report (see below): Between 32,2500,000 and 61,700,000.

http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Mao

The holocaust death toll do not even come near of what happened under Mao-Tse government in China.

Call the holocaust as the GREATEST MURDER in recorded history is a complete failure...

 

[LemmyCaution]

Why bother? He's just going to glance over this post, exclaim "not what I ask for" and rinse and repeat his vapid request for "evidence". After all, to CTs like him, evidence is only the stuff that agrees with his predetermined position.

Yes, but ANTPogo pulled some stuff together I didn't have bookmarked, so he sure helped me out. I am learning that I spend too much time with book thingies - and that this is suspicious to deniers because it lacks the Internet immediacy of videos made by Germans of their killing operations and online explanations this or that official gave of how the murder facilities worked. A reference to print on paper is easily dismissed as not existing at all because, well, it requires effort, I guess.

 

[uke2se]

http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Mao

The holocaust death toll do not even come near of what happened under Mao-Tse government in China.

Call the holocaust as the GREATEST MURDER in recorded history is a complete failure...

Nice source.



"Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare mao to be the top dog in the mass killings category, earlier editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which are similar, but not identical, to the glaser & possony sources:"

Even your source is a conspiracy theory.

 

[A'isha]

In a darkly amusing coincdence, on TV right now, on the National Geographic channel, is their documentary Scrapbooks from Hell - the Auschwitz Albums.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Nice source.



"Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare mao to be the top dog in the mass killings category, earlier editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which are similar, but not identical, to the glaser & possony sources:"

Even your source is a conspiracy theory.

Feel free to provide a reliable source which proves the holocaust death toll is the GREATEST MURDER in recorded history.

Otherwise, consider the source I provided "conspiracy theory" do not prove anything, except your insistence on failure.

You have to provide the evidence since you made the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

This situation is equivalent to me ask if there really existed the tank Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. E among the German army only to be provided with testimonies of people which supposed spotted the tank, rather than pictures of the tank, documents of the tank, sketches of the tank, films of the tank, testimonies of the tank operators.

Commanding officer at Treblinka, Franz Stangl

"I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager [extermination area] in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of black-blue corpses. It had nothing to do with humanity — it could not have. It was a mass — a mass of rotting flesh.

After reading that a reasonable person can then look at the Russian & Polish photos of what they investigated at Treblinka and read Caroline Colls recent GPR confirming the existence of mass graves.....AND then start proper research into all areas of evidence.

Evidence is a compilation of many elements. You won't even read Internet links offered to you on a plate by JREF members.


PS There is a photo of a Ferdinand "Ram tiger" floating around the internet. Are you saying this this is a real vehicle because a photo exists although there is no other supporting evidence? Please explain in detail.

http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/Pictures/ra4.png

 

[BravesFan]

Look one of your heroes admitting the gassing of the jews:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann


Not only does he admit to killing 6million Jews, he seems pretty proud of it.

 

[TSR]

If there was a Holocaust computer virus its signature would be lying.

Holocaustics check every door/avenue to see what they can get away with lying about. To them silence, no response, is golden.

Despite the fact that the only one running from lies is you?

When are we going to get around seeing Krege's report, hmmn? The one you said proved no graves at Treblinka?

 

[tsig]

NO! NO WAY!

I am not a fool!

What was presented until now was interpretations of other people, not the evidence itself.

Where is the documents of the mass extermination plans? The documents of the homicidal gas chambers?

This is becoming a annoying.

This situation is equivalent to me ask if there really existed the tank Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. E among the German army only to be provided with testimonies of people which supposed spotted the tank, rather than pictures of the tank, documents of the tank, sketches of the tank, films of the tank, testimonies of the tank operators.

I will repeat: I have being doing military research. When I research about the Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. I can find hundreds of pictures, films, sketches, testimonies of tank operators.

So when you will provide the evidence, not the already "chewed" interpretation?



Who you think you are to judge if I am prepared or not to interpret myself the evidence?
I made and there is not one single piece of evidence which I asked!



There are essays of the revisionists which I dot no agree as well!



Pretending?

Where did I said the war end in 1939?

Assumptions after assumptions...

First you have to look at the evidence.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Now, the "squeeze" idea is ridiculous. The Germans had the power to force anyone to handle to them whatever they wished. They could easy gather a brigade of soldiers to steal the valuable items from the people of the ghettos.

However, that was not the Germans intention, as Himmler, in his speech, indicate that theft were not tolerated, even among the officers:

http://www.cwporter.com/posen.htm

Of course this is also what Himmler said at Posen, explaining the difference between the state organized theft of Jewish property, which was Nazi policy from the late 1930s on, and what he was talking about what he bit that you quoted, individuals enriching themselves instead of doing their duty and instead of making sure what was robbed from the Jews went to the Reich:

"We would probably be at the same stage as 1916-17, if the Jews still resided in the body of the German people. We have taken away the riches that they had, and I have given a strict order, which Obergruppenführer Pohl has carried out, we have delivered these riches completely to the Reich, to the State. We have taken nothing from them for ourselves. A few, who have offended against this, will be [judged] in accordance with an order, that I gave at the beginning: He who takes even one Mark of this is a dead man. A number of SS men have offended against this order. There are not very many, and they will be dead men - WITHOUT MERCY! We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it, to kill this people who wanted to kill us. But we do not have the right to enrich ourselves with even one fur, with one Mark, with one cigarette, with one watch, with anything. That we do not have. Because at the end of this, we don't want, because we exterminated the bacillus, to become sick and die from the same bacillus."

Notice how liars like Porter misrepresent what the Nazis did and said by selectively quoting in this instance.

 

[R.A.F.]

Let me understand:

What does all this Jesus "crap" have to do with your transparent attempt to shift the burden of proof away from yourself??


Can you at least pretend to be paying attention??