Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[LemmyCaution]

Except he'd have to be entertaining, no?

Who knows what he thinks he's proving?

 

[uke2se]

Except he'd have to be entertaining, no?

Who knows what he thinks he's proving?

He's a bad troll, one that isn't funny. He isn't in it to prove anything. He's in it because he needs attention.

 

[OCaptain]

Translation:

Unless you see things our way, you have nothing substantive to offer. By the way, you are a troll, just because.

Do you guys all repeat the same crap like parrots, or what?

Okay then, offer some substance.

 

[OCaptain]

Well here's a simple question for you that shouldn't need 'translation', since you dismiss documents, findings, and eyewitness testimony what is your definition of 'conclusive evidence'?

Ooooooh, I know! I know!

Conclusive evidence, to him, is what he believes. Otherwise, he wouldn't believe it, duh!!

 

[OCaptain]

No, you do not have to prove anything. You just did not provided a footage of a gas chamber being used to kill people.



I did not claimed anything. You are doing imaginary assumptions.



I think you are stupid as much as you create assumptions about a person you do not really know.



Oh... Ironic.



Yes, I do.



So, where is a footage of a real homicidal gas chamber? I do not want one which you think is "about to being filled with the fumes of two cars". I want one showing the whole operation of a homicidal gas chamber.

So is that your goalpost? Show film of the murder being committed or it didn't happen?

 

[OCaptain]

So, after all that assumptions, none of you provided one single piece of evidence.

You are a complete failure.

He's a failure but you are the one who didn't know who Heinrich Himmler was??

This proves you're not here to learn about WWII and the Holocaust, you've cast your lots with the despicable deniers who hate the Jews.

Just know that.

 

[Mudcat]

So is that your goalpost? Show film of the murder being committed or it didn't happen?

Who has to die?

If this question has been brought up and discused before (please do not limb me in with these kooky deniers), please forgive me: but wouldn't the easiest way to demonstrate how these gas chambers worked would to actually use them with harmless visible gas? I only ask because I'm fairly certain the demonstration has been done... More than once.

 

[A'isha]

Who has to die?

You really think that someone who completely dismissed the footage provided by Kevin Silbstedt of human beings actually being killed by the Nazis in a gas chamber (taken by the Nazis themselves) will be convinced by a non-lethal reconstruction?

It'd be one thing (albeit still a stupid thing) if he simply doubted that the gas chambers would work as the blueprints show they were constructed. But he doesn't deny that, he denies the existence of the entire intentional genocide plan, right down to the ghettos.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I read many articles, including the one from Pressac. I also verified documents and the forensic data.

I am really sorry, but the testimony of Joseph Burg destroyed all articles and evidence which I verified.

I also watched a testimony from Dina Gottliebova-Babbittm, which proves there were cultural activities in the concentration camps.

The overwhelming evidence which discredit the existence of a mass extermination cannot be ignored.

If there was a Holocaust computer virus its signature would be lying.

Holocaustics check every door/avenue to see what they can get away with lying about. To them silence, no response, is golden.

They conjured up the 6 MILLION number over a CENTURY ago. Then relaunched it in WWI. Again early in WW2 and at the end of WW2.

In the 70s the master stroke was administered by Hollywood moguls when the 6 Million Dollar Man forever etched the 6 million number into the psyche of every TV watcher on the planet.

 

[beachnut]

Translation:

Unless you see things our way, you have nothing substantive to offer. By the way, you are a troll, just because.

Do you guys all repeat the same crap like parrots, or what?

You can't figure out 911, which you blame on Jews, and now you can't figure out Hitler came up short, he was unable to kill all the Jews, Gypsies and others he decided were not going to be in his Third Reich. What is your fantasy on the Holocaust, what is your claim for the starved people my father liberated? I have a first hand witness, you have delusions.

You don't use evidence, and you don't discuss. Translation: 1 800 468 7655

 

[SnakeTongue]

Still, approximately 70,000 Jews were deported from Lodz to Chelmno for execution in gas vans at the death camp in Kolo County during 1942; these were mostly ghetto inmates deemed by the occupying German authorities not to be capable of work and thus not worth keeping alive.

There is any available original document from the Germans in the Internet which demonstrate the design and the operation method of a supposed homicidal gas van?

I would like to see it.

This question doesn't make any sense. I can say that in Lodz ghetto starvation and diseases related to malnutrition were rampant, and thus mortality was significantly higher than normal. However, at the same time, the authorities there wanted to keep Jews alive and productive.

It make all sense because your own answer contradict excerpts from the side which claims the existence a supposed mass extermination:

The Holocaust Memorial Museum, Life in the Ghetos

(...)

Germans deliberately tried to starve residents by allowing them to purchase only a small amount of bread, potatoes, and fat. Some residents had some money or valuables they could trade for food smuggled into the ghetto; others were forced to beg or steal to survive. During the long winters, heating fuel was scarce, and many people lacked adequate clothing. People weakened by hunger and exposure to the cold became easy victims of disease; tens of thousands died in the ghettos from illness, starvation, or cold. Some individuals killed themselves to escape their hopeless lives.

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007708

Warsaw Ghetto

(...)

Self-help grew out of necessity to survive because the German ghetto policy regarding the distribution of food aimed at starvation on a massive scale. A Polish source calculated that the daily calorific content of food, officially distributed to national groups in 1941, was as follows: Germans 2,613 calories, Poles 699 calories, Jews only 184 calories. The nutritional value of the official Jewish rations was 15% of the minimum daily requirement for survival.

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/warsaw ghetto.html

If you admit that the ghettos were kept to provide forced labour, you contradict the premise which admit the intention of the Germans to exterminate the Jews by starvation.

"It is obvious that the establishment of the ghetto is only a transitional measure. I reserve for myself the decision as to when and how the city of Lodz will be cleansed of Jews. In any case, the final aim must be to burn out entirely this pestilent abscess."

There is any available document in the Internet which shows the above quote?

 

[SnakeTongue]

You combined this post from Matthew Ellard http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8117982&postcount=10027 and this one from me http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8119610&postcount=10051 to create a fictitious post which you claim I wrote. Please don't do this again.

False assumption. I did not made such claim.

 

[A'isha]

It make all sense because your own answer contradict excerpts from the side which claims the existence a supposed mass extermination:

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007708

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/warsaw ghetto.html

If you admit that the ghettos were kept to provide forced labour, you contradict the premise which admit the intention of the Germans to exterminate the Jews by starvation.

No it doesn't, actually. Did you read the part in both of the links where it talks about how Jewish ghetto residents were forced to trade their remaining valuables for enough food to survive? Well, guess what else Freidrich Uebelhoer's memo said?

"The Nutrition Department of the city of Lodz will deliver the required foodstuffs and fuel at locations in the ghetto still to be decided, and hand these over to the representative of the Jewish administration for distribution. The principle must be that foodstuffs and fuel can be paid for only by means of an exchange of materials, such as textiles, etc. In this way we should succeed in getting from the Jews all their hoarded and hidden items of value."

The Jews were to have as much as possible squeezed out of them in terms of extracted valuables and labor. Starvation rations was part of the squeezing process. The Nazis didn't care that their policy resulted in mass starvation among the ghetto population, just that it didn't kill all the Jews all at once...at least, not until every last drop had been wrung from them, and they could then be deported to the death camps.

There is any available document in the Internet which shows the above quote?

Is your Google broken or something? Here.

 

[SnakeTongue]

So is that your goalpost? Show film of the murder being committed or it didn't happen?

Evidence which precisely demonstrate how the gas chambers were operated, from begin to end:

1. Who worked with the gas chambers? There are testimonies?

2. How was the process of selection of the victims? There are documents indicating the method?

3. Which company was required to construct the gas chambers? There are commercial contracts left?

4. How the operator were instruct to safely use the gas chambers? Which documents show the safety precautions adopted?

5. Which scientists and engineers were consulted to develop the gas chamber? There is sketches of a German gas chamber?

 

[LemmyCaution]

False assumption. I did not made such claim.

Sure you did. You re blatantly lying. Go back and look at your post.

 

[A'isha]

Evidence which precisely demonstrate how the gas chambers were operated, from begin to end:

1. Who worked with the gas chambers? There are testimonies?

2. How was the process of selection of the victims? There are documents indicating the method?

3. Which company was required to construct the gas chambers? There are commercial contracts left?

4. How the operator were instruct to safely use the gas chambers? Which documents show the safety precautions adopted?

5. Which scientists and engineers were consulted to develop the gas chamber? There is sketches of a German gas chamber?

I thought you said you read Pressac.

 

[LemmyCaution]

There is any available original document from the Germans in the Internet which demonstrate the design and the operation method of a supposed homicidal gas van?

I would like to see it.



It make all sense because your own answer contradict excerpts from the side which claims the existence a supposed mass extermination:



http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007708



http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/warsaw ghetto.html

If you admit that the ghettos were kept to provide forced labour, you contradict the premise which admit the intention of the Germans to exterminate the Jews by starvation.



There is any available document in the Internet which shows the above quote?

Since it is not my premise that the Germans intended that all Jews die at once, I have not in the least contradicted myself.

My premise is like ANTPogo's. Ubelhoer's 1939 memo foresaw robbing the Jews, not killing them. When Grieser began his mass murder campaign in the Warthegau, establishing the first death camp at Chelmno, the work capable and those thought not to be able to work were separated out, with the forced laborers held in Lodz ghetto and exploited for the German economy, including the war effort, and those not capable of work killed immediately. That is what I wrote I believe twice in this discussion already and that is what the evidence shows. It doesn't show the intent to murder all the Jews of the Warthegau at once. The provincial towns were cleared of Jews in the first part of 1942, and the old, very young, and infirm Jews of Lodz were also killed, many in a large action in September. At the same time, the Germans, while exploiting Jewish labor, we're worse than careless with the lives of Jewish workers, trying to get the very utmost in productivity for the littlest possible investment, which included starvation level rations.

I have already cited two works that describe the situation, policies, and process very well. I can point to more books containing more material supporting all this, too, as I would guess you know.

 

[beachnut]

...
http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/warsaw ghetto.html

If you admit that the ghettos were kept to provide forced labour, you contradict the premise which admit the intention of the Germans to exterminate the Jews by starvation.

You don't understand logistics? Did you know Hitler's goal was to exterminate all the Jews? Did you read his book? You realize this policy of eliminating Jews took time? Time? Are you saying they did not use Jews for labor camps? 184 calories a day, is that murder?

...
There is any available document in the Internet which shows the above quote?

Do you limit yourself to the Internet? That could be a big reason you don't comprehend the Holocaust.

Have you presented your Holocaust version to the world? Is it Pulitzer Prize worthy? Are you going to famous?

 

[LemmyCaution]

There is any available original document from the Germans in the Internet which demonstrate the design and the operation method of a supposed homicidal gas van?

I would like to see it.

I hate to repeat myself but I recently listed (post #9966) a number of people, Germans and non-Germans, who testified about the gas vans in use at Chelmno. These individuals included And then look up Harry Wentritt, Henryk Maliczak, Henryk Mania, Heinz May, Karl Heinl, Walter Burmeister, Kurt Mobius, Gustav Laabs, Jozef Budynek, Jozef Piaskowski, Bronislaw Falborski, Michal Podchlebnik, Szymon Srebrnik, Walter Piller, Yerachmiel Widawski, Mieczyslaw Zurawski, Ernst Burmeister, and Szlama Winer. Some of these witnesses discuss construction and operating details.

Christopher Browning in Fateful Months has written on the origins of German gas vans, as has Parrick Montague in his recently published book on Chelmno, which includes Szlama Winer's complete testimony, excerpts from testimonies of other witnesses, and an essay on the development and history of gas vans. The HDOT material which ANTPogo has linked to also includes discussion of these gas vans by Browning.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Evidence which precisely demonstrate how the gas chambers were operated, from begin to end:

1. Who worked with the gas chambers? There are testimonies?

2. How was the process of selection of the victims? There are documents indicating the method?

3. Which company was required to construct the gas chambers? There are commercial contracts left?

4. How the operator were instruct to safely use the gas chambers? Which documents show the safety precautions adopted?

5. Which scientists and engineers were consulted to develop the gas chamber? There is sketches of a German gas chamber?

Now you are just clowning around. Or have you forgotten Pressac so soon, after just reading it? You claimed. You obviously ignored the link I provided to Gideon Greif's interviews with surviving members of the Birkenau Sonderkommando, that is, forced laborers in the gas chambers. Sigh.