I'm not sure what you are talking about. I am sure that the world is currently changing much faster than it has been at any time since the end of WWII, and that much more is to come. You may not believe this yet.
The highlighted part is where you are going wrong and not making any friends here. You have to show us why we have to believe it with old fashioned stuff called evidence. Just saying that you are smarter and more perceptive than us is not the way to go about it.
I'm predicting it because I have spent a very long time closely following what is going on in the world, and I think that if you look at the whole system as a whole system it is quite clear that that system is broken.
Ultimately the problem boils down to this: our existing economic system can only be sustained if infinite economic growth is possible, but we live within a finite physical system. Sooner or later that ends in a crash. The only question is when, and my answer is probably this year, and definitely no later than 2015.
It may be better to transfer this discussion to the following thread, which is about a documentary which explains all this in detail:
But he's got gold, so he'll be OK after all the world's economic systems collapse. Because gold is shiny, so it is worth something to starving mobs, right?
I'm predicting that the process we're already witnessing are going to accelerate and reach a crisis point where the economic system breaks, and I'm predicting that as it falls apart, ordinary people are going to find out even more of the "dirty secrets" about the way the world has been run for the last few decades in the interests of a tiny minority and the expense of the majority.
It ends with a massive global currency crisis, followed by the creation of some new sort of system of global economics. I'm predicting the end of the dominance of what Nafeez Ahmed calls "neo-liberal capitalism". Francis Fukushima is going to turn out to have been very wrong.
I think most of the people posting in this thread are very ignorant about what is currently happening in the world (forget the prophecies, this is about what is ALREADY happening).
The experiment is to see whether those people are congenitally stupid, educationally-damaged by their (American?) education, or actually capable of learning something.
Here is a documentary which explains very clearly what you've not been able to understand from my posts.
Also, if you feel like educating yourselves about the difference in the quality of the debate at this here US-style "skeptics" forum, and its counterpart in Europe, have a look at the responses to a thread about exactly the same topic there:
On this board, I'm being ridiculed by a bunch of people with an apparent average IQ of about 80. On the ratskep, where there are almost no Americans posting, there is an extremely intelligent discussion taking place.
I think most of the people posting in this thread are very ignorant about what is currently happening in the world (forget the prophecies, this is about what is ALREADY happening).
The experiment is to see whether those people are congenitally stupid, educationally-damaged by their (American?) education, or actually capable of learning something.
Here is a documentary which explains very clearly what you've not been able to understand from my posts.
Also, if you feel like educating yourselves about the difference in the quality of the debate at this here US-style "skeptics" forum, and its counterpart in Europe, have a look at the responses to a thread about exactly the same topic there:
On this board, I'm being ridiculed by a bunch of people with an apparent average IQ of about 80. On the ratskep, where there are almost no Americans posting, there is an extremely intelligent discussion taking place.
What you think has no bearing on the matter, facts are what is needed here. No need for insults, and my IQ is 146. Why are you asking a non existent being to help the USA? The UK needs more help.
From the site you linked to
''Our wasteful petrolium based economy is the same one that has provided you with a laptop or PC to write this bollocks on, most of the food in your fridge and a quality of life that was unimaginable even 50 years ago. Yes, we will need to move away from it eventually to energy created by things other than oil, but to suggest societal collapse makes you sound like someone writing on rapture ready.
Why is it so hard for some to accept that we are pretty ingenious, and the likelyhood of limitless, free, clean power (fusion or whatever) is far more likely in the next 100 years than your (and UE's) doomsday scenario?''
I think most of the people posting in this thread are very ignorant about what is currently happening in the world (forget the prophecies, this is about what is ALREADY happening).
The experiment is to see whether those people are congenitally stupid, educationally-damaged by their (American?) education, or actually capable of learning something.
Here is a documentary which explains very clearly what you've not been able to understand from my posts.
Also, if you feel like educating yourselves about the difference in the quality of the debate at this here US-style "skeptics" forum, and its counterpart in Europe, have a look at the responses to a thread about exactly the same topic there:
On this board, I'm being ridiculed by a bunch of people with an apparent average IQ of about 80. On the ratskep, where there are almost no Americans posting, there is an extremely intelligent discussion taking place.
Some years are more different than others. I don't know how closely you follow current events, or how deep and broad your understanding is of the relevance of the economic and political changes that are happening. I don't know what you believe about peak oil or the implications of absolute (physical) limits to growth that are currently coming into play. All I am saying is that if you (or anybody else) do not already believe that we are currently witnessing the start of the biggest cultural/political/economic changes in any of our lifetimes, I think you will probably have changed your mind by the end of this year.
I believe that historians will look back on 2012 as something like the year everything changed - the pivotal moment of a process which began on 9/11, shifted up a gear in Autumn 2008 and will continue for several years to come as the world adjusts to new ways of thinking about things and doing things. The best description of this shift in ideology will be away from reductionism and towards holism.
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
No, but it set in motion some of the things which led us to where we are right now.
The Black Death caused two major changes in thinking/organising. The first was the end of feudalism, because suddenly the major landowners didn't have enough manpower and serfs could just go and work for somebody else, and demand decent wages. The second was a shattering of the people's faith in the specialness of the clergy, because for all their claims that the disease was punishment from God, the clergy themselves were not spared.
I think most of the people posting in this thread are very ignorant about what is currently happening in the world (forget the prophecies, this is about what is ALREADY happening).
The experiment is to see whether those people are congenitally stupid, educationally-damaged by their (American?) education, or actually capable of learning something.
Here is a documentary which explains very clearly what you've not been able to understand from my posts.
Also, if you feel like educating yourselves about the difference in the quality of the debate at this here US-style "skeptics" forum, and its counterpart in Europe, have a look at the responses to a thread about exactly the same topic there:
On this board, I'm being ridiculed by a bunch of people with an apparent average IQ of about 80. On the ratskep, where there are almost no Americans posting, there is an extremely intelligent discussion taking place.
The reason you are not succeeding here is, as has previously been stated, that you don't present any evidence for your assertions. You seem to expect that we should accept your (extraordinary) claims on face value.
As for anarcho-primitivism, do you even know what you are promoting? At least I prefer to have access to modern medical treatment if I break a bone instead of risking to become permanently disabled. I also prefer not to live in an environment with up to 60% of deaths being due to violence.
2012 is already no ordinary year, and it is getting less and less ordinary as it goes by.
Most of the people who have posted in this thread don't know me, but ten years ago I made some posts on this board which involved predictions about 2012. Those posts are no longer available (too old, and I think one of my accounts got deleted) but the basic gist was that 2012 would be the year when the world as we know it comes to an end. I also predicted that the cracks would start showing about 2007. I was one year out; they started showing in 2008.
Don't worry this is the internet and most things are never truly lost and as I showed you back in 2009 (see: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138713 which was the last time I think you raised your predictions here) your own memory of what you predicted didn't quite match the reality of what you actually did predict, as in this post:
Posted too soon - digging further I found what I think may be your "prediction" thread and a post from that thread:
Posted by Juggler on 03-05-2002 04:36 AM:
Stimpson :
I'm not mad; Help came!
To the rest of you :
You will not have to wait until 2012 to find out that this is not just a prophecy like others that have failed before. It will be stark staring obvious long before then that there is a big change happening - in fact if you take your blinkers off and try to cut through the ******** you will find that there is already a major cultural shift happening. 2012 will blow a lot of people away overnight, but there is going to be a long period before hand as the world prepares for the incoming psychic storm. Specifically we are going to see a lot of breaking down of the old structures up until the year 2007. These will be turbulent years - September 11th was just the start. The years between 2008 and 2011 will lay the groundwork for what will occur in 2012. None of this is likeley to mean anything to you right now, but you are not likely to forget what I have said and as the future begins to unfold it will slowly dawn on you that this time it's YOUR turn.
As the above shows your prediction has indeed changed - you originally predicted that "Specifically we are going to see a lot of breaking down of the old structures up until the year 2007" So the breaking down pf the old structures wasn't meant to start in 2007 but be finished! Your original prediction did not come to pass.
In your opening post of this thread you claimed that your original prediction was:
...I said that the existing world order was going to break down catastrophically and be replaced by a new one in 2012. I said that the first cracks would appear in 2007 and that by 2009 it would be clear to that the whole system was collapsing....
However that was not what your original prediction stated:
...You will not have to wait until 2012 to find out that this is not just a prophecy like others that have failed before. It will be stark staring obvious long before then that there is a big change happening - in fact if you take your blinkers off and try to cut through the ******** you will find that there is already a major cultural shift happening. 2012 will blow a lot of people away overnight, but there is going to be a long period before hand as the world prepares for the incoming psychic storm. Specifically we are going to see a lot of breaking down of the old structures up until the year 2007. These will be turbulent years - September 11th was just the start. The years between 2008 and 2011 will lay the groundwork for what will occur in 2012. None of this is likeley to mean anything to you right now, but you are not likely to forget what I have said and as the future begins to unfold it will slowly dawn on you that this time it's YOUR turn. ...
The prediction you say you made in your opening posts contradicts the prediction your did actually originally made:
i.e. ...I said that the first cracks would appear in 2007 ...
...Specifically we are going to see a lot of breaking down of the old structures up until the year 2007. These will be turbulent years ...
So your recollection of your own prediction was flawed.
Will you now concede that your prediction did not come to pass?
''The prophecy wasn't about 2007 - it was about 2012. What I predicted would happen between 2002 and 2012 was based on my own intepretation of what I expected to happen in 2012 - namely that the old world order would collapse and be replaced with a new one. This now appears to be happening. Now...you might want to deny that current events look like the beginning of the collapse of the existing world order but that is very much a matter of opinion. You don't have to be cruising the new-age backwaters of the internet to find predictions of a catastrophic end to the world as we currently know it. You just have to turn on Bloomberg television. ''
Look, let me make this clear for about the fifth time in this thread:
Whether or not either the Mayan prophecy, or my own rambling predictions made ten years ago, have any "supernatural" content whatsoever or are nothing more than random guesses is utterly irrelevant. It may matter to people who think the most important wrong with the world is that too many people believe in woo-woo, or that the world's problems could be miraculously solved if only enough people believed in the right woo-woo, but it makes absolutely no difference to me. I couldn't give a flying fart what people think about that. If you want to believe it is nonsense then fine. If you want to believe it is true then fine. What is not fine is ignoring what is actually going in the world right now because all you're interested in is proving that your metaphysical beliefs about reality are right or that mine are wrong. You are missing the point.
Whatever happens in 2012, and whatever I said in 2002 or now, most of the people posting here will not change their minds about metaphysics or epistemology anyway and that doesn't matter. They won't change their minds because their beliefs depend on all sorts of other things which won't change respective of what happens in 2012 (short of planet Nibiru colliding with the Earth, maybe) and this doesn't matter.
The question I am discussing in this thread is this: Will 2012 Be Just Another Year?
If all you are interested in is having an unresolvable ego-battle in defence of your belief system, or because you are obsessed with trying to demolish mine, then I'm simply not interested.
The problem with this board is that most of the people who post on it assume that everybody who turns up here is as obsessed with proving their unprovable beliefs are true as they themselves are. Look around you at what is happening in the world. Look at the whole system as a whole system and have a good think about where that system is heading. And do so without worrying about what anybody said was going to happen in 2012. Concern yourself with what is actually happening, because it is far more important than who believes what about the status of mystical prophecies either in general or in this specific case.
Eradicating belief in the paranormal is both (a) impossible and (b) not likely to help very much to dig humanity out of the mess it finds itself in. Defending science is likely to help (it will be crucial, in fact), but the 2012 prophecies represent no serious threat to any branch of proper science anyway. What matters are real-world issues surrounding energy usage, resources, population and political/economic failure. This has nothing to do with skepticism about the paranormal. It's about the material world, and the world of human beings.
It ought to be obvious to anybody reading this that I believe in the primacy of the physical. It is put rather well by Derrick Jensen:
Premise Sixteen: The material world is primary. This does not mean that the spirit does not exist, nor that the material world is all there is. It means that spirit mixes with flesh. It means also that real world actions have real world consequences. It means we cannot rely on Jesus, Santa Claus, the Great Mother, or even the Easter Bunny to get us out of this mess. It means this mess really is a mess, and not just the movement of God’s eyebrows. It means we have to face this mess ourselves. It means that for the time we are here on Earth—whether or not we end up somewhere else after we die, and whether we are condemned or privileged to live here—the Earth is the point. It is primary. It is our home. It is everything. It is silly to think or act or be as though this world is not real and primary. It is silly and pathetic to not live our lives as though our lives are real.
Just as it is silly and pathetic to not live our lives as though our lives are real, it is also silly and pathetic to become obsessed with demolishing the belief system of other people who are choosing to live their lives as though their lives are real, just because they aren't willing to sign up to your own hardline "skeptical" views about the nature of reality. The ones you (or rather "we") should be bothered about are those who think Jesus, Santa Claus, the Great Mother, or the Easter Bunny are going to get us out of this mess, not those who are trying to raise awareness about the real-world consequences of real world actions.
Edited, breach of rule 0, rule 12.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: Locknar
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