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So Will 2012 Be Just Another Year?

2012 is already no ordinary year, and it is getting less and less ordinary as it goes by.

Most of the people who have posted in this thread don't know me, but ten years ago I made some posts on this board which involved predictions about 2012. Those posts are no longer available (too old, and I think one of my accounts got deleted) but the basic gist was that 2012 would be the year when the world as we know it comes to an end. I also predicted that the cracks would start showing about 2007. I was one year out; they started showing in 2008.

I never believed in the predictions of pole shifts, or other major physical changes to the surface of the Earth. I expected 2012 to be about cultural/spiritual changes, not the literal end of the world.

I don't actually think the prophecy itself (either the Mayan prophecy or any predictions made more recently by people like me) matters. I'm not interested in trying to prove the people who post on this board that it is possible for such predictions to be anything more than pure guesswork; I am much more interested in pointing out what is actually happening this year, and why 2012 is no ordinary year.

Two inter-related processes are unfolding. The first is the inexorable collapse of the existing global economic/monetary system, and the associated systems of power and control. In that sense, the world as we have known it is ending, and it may yet come to a very abrupt end at some time in the not-too-distant future. The second is that ordinary people all over the world are discovering the truth about how that system has worked - how it is corrupt and how it has effectively enslaved them. And this is just one part of an even bigger "revelation" of hidden truths about the way the world as we know it works. You shouldn't need me to tell you waht these things are - just watch the news.

For people who are expecting the Planet Nibiru to turn up in December, or for half the world's landmasses to disappear beneath the oceans overnight, 2012 is going to be a bit of a disappointment (or relief maybe, if they were scared of the prospect). But for anybody who still thinks the world as they have known it is going to continue for much longer, 2012 is going to be a very unusual year indeed. What we have seen so far is only the beginning. There is much more serious economic/monetary chaos on its way, and I believe it will be followed by political and cultural changes of equally monumental significance. For the record, I also believe there is a spiritual change taking place, but I acknowledge that this will not be relevant/believable for most of the people here, and I have no intention of trying to convince them otherwise. It is more than enough to point out the non-spiritual aspects of the major changes that are happening in the world right now.
 
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UndercoverElephant said:
2012 is already no ordinary year, and it is getting less and less ordinary as it goes by.

Most of the people who have posted in this thread don't know me, but ten years ago I made some posts on this board which involved predictions about 2012. Those posts are no longer available (too old, and I think one of my accounts got deleted) but the basic gist was that 2012 would be the year when the world as we know it comes to an end. I also predicted that the cracks would start showing about 2007. I was one year out; they started showing in 2008.

I never believed in the predictions of pole shifts, or other major physical changes to the surface of the Earth. I expected 2012 to be about cultural/spiritual changes, not the literal end of the world.

I don't actually think the prophecy itself (either the Mayan prophecy or any predictions made more recently by people like me) matters. I'm not interested in trying to prove the people who post on this board that it is possible for such predictions to be anything more than pure guesswork; I am much more interested in pointing out what is actually happening this year, and why 2012 is no ordinary year.

Two inter-related processes are unfolding. The first is the inexorable collapse of the existing global economic/monetary system, and the associated systems of power and control. In that sense, the world as we have known it is ending, and it may yet come to a very abrupt end at some time in the not-too-distant future. The second is that ordinary people all over the world are discovering the truth about how that system has worked - how it is corrupt and how it has effectively enslaved them. And this is just one part of an even bigger "revelation" of hidden truths about the way the world as we know it works.

For people who are expecting the Planet Nibiru to turn up in December, or for half the world's landmasses to disappear beneath the oceans overnight, 2012 is going to be a bit of a disappointment (or relief maybe, if they were scared of the prospect). But for anybody who still thinks the world as they have known it is going to continue for much longer, 2012 is going to be a very unusual year indeed. What we have seen so far is only the beginning. There is much more serious economic/monetary chaos on its way, and I believe it will be followed by political and cultural changes of equally monumental significance. For the record, I also believe there is a spiritual change taking place, but I acknowledge that this will not be relevant/believable for most of the people here, and I have no intention of trying to convince them otherwise. It is more than enough to point out the non-spiritual aspects of the major changes that are happening in the world right now.
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Wow, money crises and culture change. The world's never seen these before. You must be psychic or something.
 
Resume said:
Wow, money crises and culture change. The world's never seen these before.
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The world has seen monetary crises before, but never on this scale. It has also seen massive cultural crises before, but not globally. There are many aspects of the current situation that are unprecedented.

You must be psychic or something.
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As should have been crystal clear from my post, that is of no interest or relevance. I am aware that most of the people here would like nothing more than to reduce the discussion to the normal, rather banal level of debates on this board. So I'll re-iterate the message: I have no interest in debating about any type of paranormalism, because having that debate is pointless. I am not trying to prove to anybody that I or anybody else is "psychic" or that there is any connection between the prophecies and what is actually happening. People can make their own minds up about things like that. This thread is about whether or not 2012 is just another year, and that is what I would like to discuss.

:)
 
UndercoverElephant said:
People can make their own minds up about things like that. This thread is about whether or not 2012 is just another year, and that is what I would like to discuss.[/b]
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Well of course 2012 isn't like any other year. It's a different year.
 
Resume said:
Well of course 2012 isn't like any other year. It's a different year.
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Some years are more different than others. I don't know how closely you follow current events, or how deep and broad your understanding is of the relevance of the economic and political changes that are happening. I don't know what you believe about peak oil or the implications of absolute (physical) limits to growth that are currently coming into play. All I am saying is that if you (or anybody else) do not already believe that we are currently witnessing the start of the biggest cultural/political/economic changes in any of our lifetimes, I think you will probably have changed your mind by the end of this year.

I believe that historians will look back on 2012 as something like the year everything changed - the pivotal moment of a process which began on 9/11, shifted up a gear in Autumn 2008 and will continue for several years to come as the world adjusts to new ways of thinking about things and doing things. The best description of this shift in ideology will be away from reductionism and towards holism.
 
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Ladewig said:
In the sense that you are describing, how many times in the past 2000 years has "the world as we know it ended"? Or is this the first time?
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Localised fiat currencies have collapsed before. What has not happened before is an entire globalised, instant-transaction, 24-hour system collapsing. Never before has anything like the current system existed (a global system based on one (or two) fiat currencies.) I'd also say that capitalism is imploding, but that is a more complex claim because I'd have to unpack exactly what is meant by "capitalism." It may be more accurate to say that the concept itself is dying. People aren't even sure what "capitalism" means anymore. Some of the things we associate with it are ending though, much to the disbelief and horror of many on the political right, and others will follow. I'm expecting some sort of land reform in the UK eventually, which is currently unthinkable by most people. It is also possible that the banking industry will never be the same again after the true extent of their involvement in these things becomes clear.
 
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UndercoverElephant said:
Localised fiat currencies have collapsed before. What has not happened before is an entire globalised, instant-transaction, 24-hour system collapsing. Never before has anything like the current system existed (a global system based on one (or two) fiat currencies.) I'd also say that capitalism is imploding, but that is a more complex claim because I'd have to unpack exactly what is meant by "capitalism." It may be more accurate to say that the concept itself is dying. People aren't even sure what "capitalism" means anymore. Some of the things we associate with it are ending though, much to the disbelief and horror of many on the political right, and others will follow. I'm expecting some sort of land reform in the UK eventually, which is currently unthinkable by most people. It is also possible that the banking industry will never be the same again after the true extent of their involvement in these things becomes clear.
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So this change (of which we have only seen part) is going to be bigger than the industrial revolution, bigger than the start of the cold war, bigger than the rise of the internet, bigger than the Age of Enlightenment, bigger than the Age of Discovery, bigger than the spread of the movable type printing press, bigger than the Renaissance, bigger than the Reformation, and bigger than every other event in the past two thousand years?
 
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Ladewig said:
So this change (of which we have only seen part) is going to be bigger than the industrial revolution,
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Yes. In part, it is the end of the era which began with the industrial revolution. We are heading for a post-industrial age, although it will take a long time to get there. First we have to go through de-industrialisation or "scarcity industrialism".

bigger than the start of the cold war,
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Much bigger.

bigger than the rise of the internet,
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It is intimately connected to the rise of the internet. That is one of the conditions that has led to it happening now. The internet is part of the change.

bigger than the Age of Enlightenment, bigger than the Age of Discovery, bigger than the spread of the movable type printing press, bigger than the Renaissance, bigger than the Reformation, and bigger than every other event in the past two thousand years?
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Yes. :)
 
UndercoverElephant said:
Some years are more different than others. I don't know how closely you follow current events, or how deep and broad your understanding is of the relevance of the economic and political changes that are happening. I don't know what you believe about peak oil or the implications of absolute (physical) limits to growth that are currently coming into play. All I am saying is that if you (or anybody else) do not already believe that we are currently witnessing the start of the biggest cultural/political/economic changes in any of our lifetimes, I think you will probably have changed your mind by the end of this year.

]I believe that historians will look back on 2012 as something like the year everything changed - the pivotal moment of a process which began on 9/11, shifted up a gear in Autumn 2008 and will continue for several years to come as the world adjusts to new ways of thinking about things and doing things. The best description of this shift in ideology will be away from reductionism and towards holism.
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I don't agree. I have no idea what you mean by the highlighted part. 911 was a terrorist attack. It did not inspire a worldwide 'new way of thinking'. Even the Black Death didn't do that.
 
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dafydd said:
I don't agree. I have no idea what you mean by the highlighted part. 911 was a terrorist attack. It did not inspire a worldwide 'new way of thinking'. Even the Black Death didn't do that.
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And as this "new way of thinking" apparently amounts to: "Bankers are greedy bastards", I'm having a hard time seeing anything new about it.
 
UndercoverElephant said:
For the record, I also believe there is a spiritual change taking place, but I acknowledge that this will not be relevant/believable for most of the people here, and I have no intention of trying to convince them otherwise.
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So 2012 will be special for some special people? How special.
 
There is an awful lot of stuff that happens on our planet. Because of this, statistically we can expect that every year, there will be some things that happen for the first time, some things that stop happening, some things that happen more than they ever have before, and some things that happen less than they ever have before.

So at the end of this year, everyone hell-bent on proving that 2012 was somehow special will pull up as many of those events and trends as they can find, and point to them as evidence that they were right all along, while ignoring the comparable events and trends from every other year in recorded history.

UCE, how would you distinguish what you're claiming from what I just described?
 
Brainache said:
And as this "new way of thinking" apparently amounts to: "Bankers are greedy bastards", I'm having a hard time seeing anything new about it.
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I dunno, everyone I know is going around muttering 'I've had enough of this reductionism, it's about time we went holistic.'
 
dafydd said:
First provide evidence of the existence of a spirit, otherwise we may as well discuss invisible unicorns.
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I don't believe it is possible to prove the existence of any such things. That's why nearly everything I posted was about politics and economics. There's no harm in me stating my beliefs for the record (especially given my history on this board), but there's nothing to discuss.
 
dafydd said:
It's been an ordinary year so far. I can think of years that were more extraordinary. 1939 and 1914 come to mind.
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More catastrophic in terms of human suffering, but there is nothing all that unusual about humans starting wars, unfortunately.
 
dafydd said:
I don't agree. I have no idea what you mean by the highlighted part. 911 was a terrorist attack. It did not inspire a worldwide 'new way of thinking'.
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No, but it set in motion some of the things which led us to where we are right now.

Even the Black Death didn't do that.
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The Black Death caused two major changes in thinking/organising. The first was the end of feudalism, because suddenly the major landowners didn't have enough manpower and serfs could just go and work for somebody else, and demand decent wages. The second was a shattering of the people's faith in the specialness of the clergy, because for all their claims that the disease was punishment from God, the clergy themselves were not spared.
 
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