Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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Samuel Phillips don't think it be a straw man argument, irrelevant. He wrote a big gnarly National Geographic article May 1969 EMPHASIZING THE "strawman" nor does Commander Borman think it be no "strawman", irrelevant, you know, Commander Borman who told a big fat cislunar lie about taking secanol in outer space to squirm outta' his INFLUENZA predicament, the same Commander Borman dude I done locked into a CM simulator with Linda Blair just for yuks...........
You are blustering and handwaving to try to confuse the issue. Let's cut through your panicked obfuscation and get you back on track:

Your specific argument is that NASA's flight surgeon claimed their astronauts could not have had influenza because they were vaccinated against it. That is false. He claimed no such thing. That is your straw man. Your case built on such a logical fallacy is groundless. You fail. Again.

Your one year of high school chemistry would not have covered logical fallacies. You should look that up sometime.
 
The point is not whether Borman had it, of course he didn't. The point has to do with what the docs said about it. See it doesn't matter, except that we caught the docs, and Phillips the arch perpetrator, and the others in a gnarly lie.

So I really don't care if Borman did or did not have INFLUENZA per se, that is not the point, INFLUENZA in and of itself. What is relevant is the way the docs spoke about it, INFLUENZA, like ignoramuses. So one knows Apollo is fake because of that. The docs don't speak of their charges as they should,

Please post the exact quotes that you are basing your assertion on please.
 
Well, one of my ideas is that the LMs landed as claimed,

Check the hi-res maps yourself, it all matches to the decimeter with the whole story of the first landing.

So, what about that then?

Well, one of my ideas is that the LMs landed as claimed with the exception of their being unmanned. The Eagle landed at roughly 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east .

It doesn't have to be like this, but this is a scenario that fits the facts. One knows that the Apollo missions were fraudulent in that they were unmanned. They were not fraudulent in that they succeeded in accomplishing their nefarious military goals.

Just to keep it simple, let's say for instance that the Eagle was an active listener and relay device, say it had a mounted LRRR like the Russian probe mounted LRRR, say it was part of a network that included Lagrangian point established hardware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point) employed in helping to locate earth based objects form a safe/comfortable distance and so forth.

Well, if you looked for the "Eagle", there you would find it, right there at 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east. It just is not an empty "inactive" device. It's right where it is supposed to be. However, it is doing a lot more work than we had ever imagined.

Lots of scenarios are possible. The actual one went something like this, like that above. Part of the fun of doing Apollo history, the best part, is figuring out what they were actually up to, the details, the specifics. Apollo is fraudulent, unmanned, there is no question. That is easy to show/prove.
 
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The fake punch is far from irrelevant, HUGE find.....

Both ludicrous nonsense and irrelevant, clearly yet again an attempt to sidetrack the discussion. Why don't you focus on the real issues; addressing your many errors and providing your contact details to JayUtah?

The fake punch is far from irrelevant, HUGE find.....insanely significant, proves Apollo Fraudulence from the comfort of my living room. ABSOLUTELY KILLER, HISTORIC FINDING, the bogus Sibrel getting punched out jive is.....
 
After the woman walks in front of the camera, just before the punch, once she is just past, we may now be seeing a green screened Sibrel substituted via editing. The purpose of the distracting woman is to cover for the green screen Sibrel replacement. VERY VERY VERY POSSIBLE.......

Sibrel steps in front of Aldrin. The woman passes. Now the edit features a green screened Sibrel that reacts to the punch. They do not even need to practice the fake hitting thing in that case.

Note, it is not March 17. Sibrel ain't got nothing green on.

This rocket done blowed up........

I have no interest in responding to a new set of errors.

Own up to your previous ones first.
 
Well of course I am going to bring up the phony Bart Sibrel thing now that I have....

And smack in the middle of Apollo 13 and Apollo 1 technical debates, Patrick radically changes subjects again.

Apparently we're not going to be talking anymore about the Cortright report that Patrick obviously didn't read, since he can't materially discuss what it contains or does not contain, didn't realize it really does describe the the experiments he said were never performed, and can't pony up to the status this work has in the relevant industries.

Apparently we're not going to continue our discussion about how the chemstry of combustion works, since his attempts to get others to do his homework have failed and his vague handwaving references to "high school chemistry" didn't impress anyone.

And apparently we're not going to see Patrick defend his claims in person with the people he's libeled.

No -- it looks like Patrick has found a new word, "chromakey," that's going to be his new whipping boy until he gets cornered on that topic and decides to change subjects. That's right, don't expect any closure on this new topic either. He'll backpedal and bluster as usual.

Never mind that Patrick previously said he "didn't do photos," which means he's woefully behind the curve on this topic too and needs to pretend he isn't playing catch-up as he asserts his dominance of knowledge and expertise. Never mind that I have photo analysis training from the Univ. of Michigan as part of their forensic engineering program, that my analysis has been referenced in Science (the foremost peer-reviewed scientific journal in the English language), and that I've been consulted on the subject on camera by National Geographic, Mythbusters, and others. I'm sure Patrick will favor us very shortly with claims of infallibility on this subject as well.

And he doesn't stop with Apollo photos and videos too. Nope, now even his fellow conspiracy theorists aren't safe: apparently Patrick has stone-hard proof that Bart Sibrel's famous punch-heard-round-the-Moon video is a cheap forgery too. Apparently in the 24 hours since his Cortright Report gaffe was broadcast to the world, Patrick has now become a world-class photo analyst, where previously he said he didn't have any expertise.

Of course I can put Patrick in contact with Bart Sibrel. Obviously I don't talk to him regularly, but I have his contact information and I have put people in touch with him before. Here's the hitch: Bart's appearance fee, last I checked, was $2,500, so if Patrick wants the pleasure of telling Bart to his face that he faked the Aldrin punch video, it's going to cost him. But somehow I think a guy who brags about his hand-made bicycle can afford to pay Bart.

As for fill lighting in the Apollo photos -- been there done that. National Geographic, one of the most recognizable forces today in photography, seems to consider me enough of an expert on the subject to ask me to demonstrate features of Apollo photography on camera under their illustrious name. And to be sure, we asked all the Moon hoax photo "experts" to come along too and show how their theories would still work. Naturally none of them rose to the occasion. Just like our illustrious doctor, not-doctor, bicycle champion, sextant expert, radar programmer, snowflake and bike engineer Patrick, these guys cower in the shadows (pun intended) and won't display their "expertise" without a safety net.

So obviously we won't be seeing Patrick being held accountable to Sy Liebergot, Gene Kranz, Jim Lovell, my engineer friends at NASA/Ames (where much of the Cortright report experiments were carried out), and my flight surgeon associates at Moffett. He won't agree to be in the same room as they without face-saving assurances.

So moving on to cinematography, what resources can we bring to bear? Well, again there's me. I'm a recognized expert on the lighting in Apollo photos. Patrick the Anonymous can try to contend with me, but he will typically just quote my entire post and then change the subject. No help there.

Keep in mind that the university where I taught has classrooms named after half the pioneers of the computer animation squads at Disney and Pixar -- why? because they all went to school with me here. I have contacts at Digital Domain, where I consulted the visual effects for the Apollo 13 movie (they needed to know which RCS quads would credibly fire). I'm sure Charlie Ziarko wouldn't mind talking about filmmaking, since he helps out with my site from time to time. He's long retired, but he still loves talking the biz. I did mention my association with Tony Frewin, who was Stanley Kubrick's assistant during the making of 2001 and some of his other visual-effect films. I still hang out with John Flynn, who is a video producer working in Hollywood. His DP Sasha Rendulic is fun to work with and can shed some light (pun again intended) on compositing techniques both then and now.

Between me and my Rolodex I'm sure we can find plenty of real-life people to hold Patrick's feet to the fire. Will Patrick agree to meet in person with these people? Time will tell, but you know where my bet is. I'm sure he'll make the same lame counterproposal -- that anyone is free to come perform in his little circus where he risks nothing, yet claims ultimate eminence.

Well of course I am going to bring up the phony Bart Sibrel thing Jay. Now that I have proven Aldrin/Sibrel I fraudulent, proven the punching scene fraudulent, I have yet AGAIN proven all of Apollo fraudulent. Big find the Sibrel thing, monumental, epic, historic, quite literally so. Apollo history is being written right here on JREF, right here in real-time, right here in this most remarkable thread. It is truly unprecedented this activity..........

My naming Sibrel as a perpetrator is a landmark event, nothing less, quite literally so. This, one of the most significant events in all of Apollo history, was indeed determined in the last day, and right here on this forum, Bart Sibrel, an Apollo Fraud Perp, proven beyond question, HUGE FIND!

Of course the Chromakey stuff is speculative, but if FatFreddy himself, a video specialist, a physicist or I prove Collins' jacket is NOT IN FREE FALL, well then all of Apollo is proven fraudulent , yet AGAIN, but NOW, we'll have a clue as to what they did to fake those CM video scenes, chromakey stuff, would have to be, only way to fake it in full earth G. This is an important area to research.

Apollo fraudulence is a done deal, just ask Borman, cislunar Secanol pill popper that he is, well better said, pretended to be. Everyone that knows the FACTS, knows Apollo bogus, no more proof needed there. What is not known are all of the details regarding method, means, goals, intent. Much still to do do, green screen may well be a key. Why don't ya' give Borman a call, ask 'im what he thinks........

As for Teflon and aluminum, as I have said, I 'm just getting warmed up. Too bad for Apollo the Teflon and aluminum never did, get warmed up that is........
 
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The fake punch is far from irrelevant, HUGE find.....insanely significant, proves Apollo Fraudulence from the comfort of my living room. ABSOLUTELY KILLER, HISTORIC FINDING, the bogus Sibrel getting punched out jive is.....

Well, there's one problem with that: Aldrin punched Sibrel.

Now, since you claim you're just warming up, are you ever going to post your PTFE homework? Heaven knows you don't have the courage to provide your contact info and face the people you accuse.
 
Now that I have proven Aldrin/Sibrel I fraudulent, proven the punching scene fraudulent...


You have done no such thing. I don't even buy that you believe this yourself. You have presented, as usual, zero proof, and simply rely on your own baseless proclamations, which, if you haven't noticed, no one buys.

Of course the Chromakey stuff is speculative, but if FatFreddy himself, a video specialist, a physicist or I prove Collins' jacket is NOT IN FREE FALL, well then all of Apollo is proven fraudulent , yet AGAIN, but NOW, we'll have a clue as to what they did to fake those CM video scenes, chromakey stuff, would have to be, only way to fake it in full earth G. This is an important area to research.


The way you speak about chromakey makes it clear to anyone who has any knowledge of the subject that you simply, and as usual, have no idea what you are talking about.

By the way, Dr. Tea, when are you going to PUT UP OR SHUT UP?
 
The Sibrel gets punched out YouTube videos are off the hook interesting...

So now what I am finding is that as previously mentioned, the sound/voice timing, the point at which it starts with respect to the punching activity varies, presumably someone figured out the timing was off in some of these, and tried clumsily to correct it.

More significantly, if one loads at least some of these YouTube clips into Premiere Elements and goes through the video frame by frame by frame, one finds some frames are "left out", the video action stalls with frames repeated, presumably to improve sound/action timing.

Additionally, I have discovered that Sibrel reacts late. If one goes through this thing frame by frame, Aldrin's fist is at Sibrel's face, then essentially a freeze frame there, no movement of Sibrel, despite advancement by a frame, so the editor is showing us THE SAME FRAME! despite the digital advancement. The "new" frame is identical with the previous and shows no movement in time and so betrays the film/video as certifiably fraudulent/manufactured and certifies Sibrel as an Apollo fraud perp.

This intentional time manipulation by way of editing reflects the effort to coordinate this thing, the voice/sound dubbing with the punch, with the action. Sibrel did not say the "......liar and a thief line...." in Real-Time. It was added. It is an edit, a sound edit.

I have a copy of Sibrel's "own" dvd from whence all this nonsense derives, ASTRONAUTS GONE WILD, the dvd Sibrel sells himself on line. It will be interesting to see what the timing is like on Sibrel's own video.

Note the woman that walks in front of the camera just before the punch is thrown. She may not even be there "in real life". She could be a superposition, but whatever, her role is contrived and she is nothing less than a definite and very very very intentional distraction.

Note how Aldrin's step-daughter(yellow/brown clothes) looks out at us for her cues/clues of/for action/activity.

Crazy this stuff, like a bad spy movie. What incompetents!

Oh Pat... you're wandering into my world again. Would you like me to explain why you're wrong about the punch?
 
You do not get to be judge and jury to your own case. You have proven nothing - nor convinced anyone that I can tell. More and more I am certain you are only speaking to hear your own voice. And feel that any response is some how validation. That isn't the case. IMO people are responding to your posts because they are aware of the huge effort put forth by those that landed humans on the moon. And your remarks sully that effort. They are not responding because you have made a convincing argument.
 
Well, one of my ideas is that the LMs landed as claimed with the exception of their being unmanned. The Eagle landed at roughly 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east .

<snip>

Lots of scenarios are possible. The actual one went something like this, like that above. Part of the fun of doing Apollo history, the best part, is figuring out what they were actually up to, the details, the specifics. Apollo is fraudulent, unmanned, there is no question. That is easy to show/prove.

Decimeter; 10cm... the frickin' Rover and it's tracks are visible. Here is an EPIC GAP and your STORY has GONE BUSTED! FLATTENED!

How is that for just busting your chops with 1 (ONE!) single question?

You are THE WEAKEST LINK, goodbye.
 
Patrick, other than than hand waving ALL of Jay's points away and saying in a smug manner that of course everything everyone else has looked at is fake, why don't you actually keep to one topic, see it through to the conclusion, and then move on?

You've changed topics over the last few months as often as you've realized that your initial thoughts were wrong, but not before you backpedal, or otherwise refuse to accept other people's explanations, which often have all their work shown.

We all know you won't face the people you call liars, etc. because you lack the simple courage to face your own errors in the safety of the Internet, let alone real people in the real world.
 
I am a physician bike shop owner that deals with INFUENZA repairing punctures in bicycle tyres and INFLUENZA bike related problems daily.....I have plenty of competence in this, not ot mention MANY other medical bicycle fields.

Have you forgotten that you have already told us that you are not a doctor? Have you forgotten you told us that you are an award winning bicycle designer?
 
The fake punch is far from irrelevant, HUGE find.....insanely significant, proves Apollo Fraudulence from the comfort of my living room. ABSOLUTELY KILLER, HISTORIC FINDING, the bogus Sibrel getting punched out jive is.....

This is just juvenile trolling now. Nobody could take you seriously before this, but that post is the icing on the cake.

So your new theory is that NASA are in fact running the 'Apollo was hoaxed' scheme and actually employed Bart Sibrel to knock up a hoax film knowing that anybody with an IQ over 10 would see through it?

His film accounts for the main reason people actually deny the landings occurred in the first place. You only need to go to youtube to see the lower end of the IQ community discussing it with conviction.

All we have had from you in entirety is NASA overscripted Apollo, with fake poo, fake overshoots, fake lightning and fake explosions, now we have fake Apollo hoax advocates who make fake fakery films:eye-poppi

I cannot adequately put into words how excruciatingly stupid your latest "KILLER, HISTORIC FINDING" is.:jaw-dropp
 
Here is proof that the famous "punching scene", Aldrin's punching Sibrel, was staged.

Congratulations! This is probably the most ridiculous claim any HB has ever made. Look at the expressions on their faces. Buzz is obviously outraged, and the slimeball is obviously surprised when Buzz hit him.

Have you agreed to meet with Gene Kranz and the others on your "perps" list? You could tell Buzz that the punch was staged and see his reaction.
 
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