What's so fantastic about Apple?

[TheL8Elvis]

Apple is excellent at hype and persuading people that its products are superior. The reality is somewhat different.

You might want to read past the first post and see if this idea has been covered.

 

[John Albert]

So far, no need has presented itself. As I say, I have FTP. Two FTP clients as it happens, one dedicated and the other built into Textastic - which is a lot more useful for editing PHP, CSS, HTML and JavaScript.

I also have Dropbox. And email. All provide simple ways to get files onto the device.

And LogMeIn, which allows me to drive my Windows Desktop from elsewhere. So there's essentially nothing I can't do using my iPad.

If I really wanted USB (and SD) on my iPad, I can have it for £25 from Apple. And probably half that via an after-market product. If I needed to get a lot of files on there it would be worth the £25. But I use it for running repairs when visiting clients.

I like the fact it's a 1/3rd the weight of my laptop, and takes up less than half the space in my bag. Especially when the tube is full and I can't get a seat.

That fact that you, a single user, prefer to use FTP and Dropbox is irrelevant. There are innumerable reasons for using USB—or indeed any physical media—as opposed to a "cloud based" service. USB is a universal, standardized interface port, useful for lots of things besides thumbdrives.

It's not that the iPad does not support USB. USB support is built into the device. But by refusing to build in USB ports, Apple is still forcing its customers to pay extra for what ought to be standard functionality, for no good reason. Apple just refuses to build standard USB ports into the iPad in favor of their own proprietary connector, requiring their customers to pay extra "Apple taxes" (£25/$40 apiece) for multiple cords and cables to accomplish the same tasks you could do with any other similar device that has USB ports. It also requires the user to rely on Apple-controlled software like iTunes for the purpose of transferring data to and from the device in lieu of an Internet connection.

Heh - another unexpected benefit of getting a tablet. Especially when reading this very forum late at night. The Atomic Web Browser can dim the screen down very low by darkening the colours (e.g. white becomes increasingly grey), which allows me to read in the dark without illuminating the entire room and disturbing Mrs Megaresp.

Every laptop, netbook and cell phone I've ever owned can do the exact same thing. Do you really think your iPad is the only device ever to have a screen-dimmer function?

I suppose that'll be the next bit of functionality that Apple is going to claim a patent on, and try to bully other companies out of developing.

Considering the incredibly limited nature of the iPad, it's absolutely amazing that I can do everything I need to as a web developer.

You hack code on an iPad touchscreen?!?

That sounds like an exercise in self torture.

 

[John Albert]

You might want to read past the first post and see if this idea has been covered.

I'd say it's been pretty comprehensively covered.

 

[John Albert]

If you had asked him to define overpriced, i could have helped you with that.

It means priced too high.

Now, I'm still not sure how you determine what is too high.

Maybe that's why you don't understand. You never learned how to objectively evaluate things comparatively.

Or else the Apple hype machine has convinced you that Apple devices have no comparisons. I suppose that's what they mean by "Think Different."

 

[megaresp]

Every laptop, netbook and cell phone I've ever owned can do the exact same thing. Do you really think your iPad is the only device ever to have a screen-dimmer function?

You missed the part where I said Atomic Web Browser darkens screen colours. This has nothing to do with screen brightness, which even at its dimmest settings is too bright for comfortable viewing in the dark.

That conversation had nothing to do with the iPad as such. Unlike you, I am not totally obsessed with Apple.

You hack code on an iPad touchscreen?!? That sounds like an exercise in self torture.

 

[Darat]

Serious question here for people with phones with SD slots...what do you use them for?

For example I would like a slot in my iPad because it would be nice to take the card out of my SLR and load pics up (without buying a separate dongle) but not sure when I would really need one on my phone? I guess transferring files but I really like DropBox. So when do you guys use it? Or is it one of those features on your phone that you never use? I had a Droid X and can't recall ever taking the card out (or the removable battery but I digress).

Cheap storage so you can have access to a huge media library no matter where you are.

 

[John Albert]

The relevance has to do with your claims in this post, for example. You want to lump 'android' phones together when it's convenient for your point, and separate them when it's not.

I wasn't the one who lumped all Android devices together to make that point. It was kajata who did that, in this post:

oh, and when the iPhone or iPad's software is updated you'll get it that day instead of wondering "will my Android device ever be updated?" only to wait months and months before you get Honeycomb or Ice Cream Sandwich...if you get it. muhahahhahaha!

See? He made a sweeping general criticism of all Android users having to wait for upgrades. His argument was that Android is inferior because all Android devices don't receive updates on the same schedule. That was the argument I was responding to, in the post you linked above:

Ha! You caught me you son of a gun! No, if you have a 4 year old iPhone 3G you can't because it's not fast enough. As opposed to the Android phones where something like less than 5% of Android devices are running ICS. Not because they're not fast enough but because, well, someone will get around to it.

It's because the service providers reserve the right to examine and approve all the code before they push it out to their devices. That's no fault of Android as a platform.

Of course, unless you're using an extremely outdated handset, you can download and install the upgrade yourself, so long as your provider hasn't blocked that functionality.

In my case, I have a Google Nexus phone so I just get the upgrades as soon as they get pushed out. I don't really give two craps about what new OS they happen to be marketing at the mo, so I usually get the upgrade without even realizing it. I reboot my phone and that's it. I'm on the new version. What-evah.

As you can see, I clearly pointed out that blaming the operating system is a sweeping generalization because it fails to recognize the differences among Android devices, such as manufacturers, service providers, etc. I also pointed out that, barring outdated handsets and restrictions imposed by one's service provider, an Android user can in many cases just download and upgrade the OS oneself. So if you actually read what I said, you'd see that I was the one arguing against the dichotomy in the first place.

Hopefully this will help you understand why I posted this criticism of your debating style:

I've determined, simply by observing the way you've been discussing matters in this thread, that you fail to attentively read what others say if they happen to challenge your own opinion. That much is blatantly obvious, based on the number of wild misconceptions and strawman arguments you've made, and the way you've flown off the handle with crazy presumptions about things that have already been clearly stated by others.

Here's another example where you jumped into a discussion I was having with kajata to make false accusations:

Kajata had challenged me to give examples of competing tablets to the iPad which provide better functionality for less cost:

C'mon John. Tackle post #858. I really want to pick up one of these tablets that's far less expensive and far more powerful than the iPad 2.

To which I responded:

Actually, the competition has forced Apple's hand to close the hardware/price gap significantly with the iPad 2, but most of the competitors still generally offer more storage options (like multiple USB ports, SD card slots, etc.) and better cameras for the same price, and the Android OS offers far more flexibility and functionality with far fewer restrictions than iOS.

The iPad does come in an aluminum case with a nice suede finish, however.

So you jumped in to bombastically accuse me of making a false dichotomy and poisoning the well:

You complain about a strawman, then proceed offer a false dichotomy that you just poisoned the well against.

When in fact there was no false dichotomy. Kajata asked me to compare the iPad to the competition—any competition, he didn't specify which competitor—and I responded on those terms. There was no false dichotomy, and no poisoning of the well.

Again, I hope this serves to clarify why I might have said something like this regarding your argument tactics in this thread:

I've determined, simply by observing the way you've been discussing matters in this thread, that you fail to attentively read what others say if they happen to challenge your own opinion. That much is blatantly obvious, based on the number of wild misconceptions and strawman arguments you've made, and the way you've flown off the handle with crazy presumptions about things that have already been clearly stated by others.

I already told you that my phone has a microSD card slot.

You did - I missed where you said you had a nexus one

Again, yet another example of you failing to attentively read what others say.

Do you see why I made that critique in the first place, and why it's so very disingenuous of you to throw it back in my face as if it applies to me just as well?

I just want to know if you consider lack of a SD slot in general a feature that limits your freedom.

Already answered that one. Didn't you pay attention the first 2 or 3 times?

Are you sure you're not flying off the handle with another crazy presumption about something I have already clarified?

I'm interested in learning more about what counts and does not count as 'limiting freedom', since that seems to be one of your big problems with apple.

You're rehashing points that I have addressed countless times throughout this thread. Maybe you failed to attentively read what I said?

I've provided examples too numerous to mention here, and I'm not going back and combing through 25 pages of posts to find them all again. Especially when it's so obvious that you didn't bother to pay attention the first time around. I'm not your Internet monkey. Go do it yourself if you're so interested.

 

[John Albert]

You missed the part where I said Atomic Web Browser darkens screen colours. This has nothing to do with screen brightness, which even at its dimmest settings is too bright for comfortable viewing in the dark.

All of the laptops I have owned have settings to adjust screen brightness, contrast, color saturation, gamma, etc. It's not something unique to iPads, and providing redundant functionality in a Web browser seems kind of silly.

That conversation had nothing to do with the iPad as such.

You mean, apart from the fact that you were pointing it up as an advantage of your iPad over a laptop?

Unlike you, I am not totally obsessed with Apple.

I'm not "obsessed with Apple." It just happens to be the topic of this thread.

 

[John Albert]

Serious question here for people with phones with SD slots...what do you use them for?

For example I would like a slot in my iPad because it would be nice to take the card out of my SLR and load pics up (without buying a separate dongle) but not sure when I would really need one on my phone? I guess transferring files but I really like DropBox. So when do you guys use it? Or is it one of those features on your phone that you never use? I had a Droid X and can't recall ever taking the card out (or the removable battery but I digress).

Cheap storage so you can have access to a huge media library no matter where you are.

Or on a phone, to store your phonebook and other data in a format that facilitates easy transfer of that information to a computer or other device.

It also allows one to upgrade one's onboard storage easily and inexpensively, so for example you can spend $30 to replace a tiny little card instead of having to buy a whole new phone just because you've run out of storage space.

 

[JohnnyG]

I'm not "obsessed with Apple." It just happens to be the topic of this thread.

Apple is the thread topic in 24 of your last 25 posts.

 

[megaresp]

I'm not "obsessed with Apple." It just happens to be the topic of this thread.

What? It's all you ever talk about.

Personally, I think you're grieving for Steve in a tragic example of unrequited love.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Maybe that's why you don't understand. You never learned how to objectively evaluate things comparatively.

Or possibly all things you seem to have claimed to objectively actually aren't ?

Objectively, what is the value of 1 USB port versus 2 ?
Objectively, what is the value of 6 less ounces of weight in a notebook ?
Objectively, what is the value of 20 minutes more battery life ?
Objectively, what is the value of .5 inches thinner ?
Objectively, what is the value of a back-lit keyboard ?
Objectively, what is the value of a mag-safe power adapter ?
Objectively, what is the value of aesthetically pleasing ?

 

[John Albert]

It's the method I use to post on this forum. I go through the threads with recent updates, read the posts addressed to me or quoting my posts. Then move on the the next thread.

This just happens to be the first thread I've answered today, and I've been too busy to get around to the others yet.

 

[Brian-M]

Considering the incredibly limited nature of the iPad, it's absolutely amazing that I can do everything I need to as a web developer.

Do you develop web pages containing flash animation?

You missed the part where I said Atomic Web Browser darkens screen colours. This has nothing to do with screen brightness, which even at its dimmest settings is too bright for comfortable viewing in the dark.

So basically it's a software-based screen dimmer instead of a hardware-based screen dimmer... instead of lowering the backlightling, the backlighting remains the same brightness and the pixels get darker?

Sounds like it'd reduce the range of available colors too. (Assuming that the graphics chip is built to support 256 brightness levels per color channel, halving the brightness of the "screen colors" would reduce that to 128 brightness levels per channel.)

Strange that it won't let you lower the screen brightness to levels suited for reading in the dark. That's half the point of being able to adjust screen brightness. (The other half is being able to read in sunlight.)

I wonder how long until displays on mobile devices come with a built-in photo-sensor used to automatically adjust brightness to suit ambient light levels?

 

[John Albert]

Or possibly all things you seem to have claimed to objectively actually aren't ?

Objectively, what is the value of 1 USB port versus 2 ?
Objectively, what is the value of 6 less ounces of weight in a notebook ?
Objectively, what is the value of 20 minutes more battery life ?
Objectively, what is the value of .5 inches thinner ?
Objectively, what is the value of a back-lit keyboard ?
Objectively, what is the value of a mag-safe power adapter ?
Objectively, what is the value of aesthetically pleasing ?

Again you've "somehow" missed my point again. Whether you're not reading correctly, not paying attention, or deliberately ignoring it in the interest of creating obfuscation is anybody's guess.

I have stated several times now that there are both objective and subjective considerations in the question of value.

All the considerations stated above (with the exception of the number of USB ports and backlit keyboard) may be quantifiable, but their valuation relative to the MSRP is largely a matter of personal preference.

• Number of USB ports can be assessed in terms of the cost of the hardware and the engineering considerations. A higher number of USB ports is of course better, but there's a point where it becomes a case of diminishing returns with regard to the price of the unit.

• A backlit keyboard is a luxury feature (roughly akin to heated car seats) that can likewise be quantitatively valuated, but usually ends up padding out the price of the final product.

• Size and weight issues are always a trade-off relative to performance, features, flexibility and a host of other considerations.

• Battery life is important to a point, but the lack of a removable, replaceable battery is a seriously mitigating factor. 20 minutes of battery life is, in my view, negligible.

• The "MagSafe" power adapter is just a freaking magnet on the power cord. Worth a couple bucks more on the list price, tops.

• "Aesthetically pleasing," is wholly subjective. Some people think a Plymouth Prowler or a Nissan Cube look really cool.

Do these sorts of considerations, even taken all together, justify a 200% markup in price? I think it's fair to say that no, that kind of price hike would represent pretty extreme overvaluation.

 

[John Albert]

I wonder how long until displays on mobile devices come with a built-in photo-sensor used to automatically adjust brightness to suit ambient light levels?

My phone already does that.

 

[megaresp]

Do you develop web pages containing flash animation?

I have done in the past, though obviously not using an iPad. And not recently. More recently I've had a few conversions from Flash to HTML.

So basically it's a software-based screen dimmer instead of a hardware-based screen dimmer... instead of lowering the backlightling, the backlighting remains the same brightness and the pixels get darker? Sounds like it'd reduce the range of available colors too.

Yes, and yes. It's a lot more effective than merely dimming the display, although I do that too.

Strange that it won't let you lower the screen brightness to levels suited for reading in the dark.

I find it too bright with the lights out even dimmed right down. I do have very good night vision and am sensitive to light, so perhaps it's me. Also, we have blackout blinds in the bedroom so it's properly dark.

With the screen dimmed right down and using Mobile Safari it's too bright. The thing is essentially an inconveniently-shaped torch (aka flashlight).

I wonder how long until displays on mobile devices come with a built-in photo-sensor used to automatically adjust brightness to suit ambient light levels?

Er, I'm pretty sure all modern phones and tablets already do this.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I wasn't the one who lumped all Android devices together

Yes, you both did.

So you jumped in to bombastically accuse me of making a false dichotomy and poisoning the well:

Actually, the competition has forced Apple's hand to close the hardware/price gap significantly with the iPad 2, but most of the competitors still generally offer more storage options (like multiple USB ports, SD card slots, etc.) and better cameras for the same price, and the Android OS offers far more flexibility and functionality with far fewer restrictions than iOS.

The iPad does come in an aluminum case with a nice suede finish, however.

When in fact there was no false dichotomy.

Only, that's not the response I criticized. It was already clearly repeated in context earlier in the thread. Please pay more attention ?

Again, yet another example of you failing to attentively read what others say.

Heh - another unexpected benefit of getting a tablet. Especially when reading this very forum late at night. The Atomic Web Browser can dim the screen down very low by darkening the colours (e.g. white becomes increasingly grey), which allows me to read in the dark without illuminating the entire room and disturbing Mrs Megaresp.

Every laptop, netbook and cell phone I've ever owned can do the exact same thing. Do you really think your iPad is the only device ever to have a screen-dimmer function?.

IRONY ... you responded to something the other poster didn't actually claim. Maybe you are failing to attentively read what others post

I'm not your Internet monkey. Go do it yourself if you're so interested.

Whose Internet monkey are you then ? No, I'm not that interested, actually.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Again you've "somehow" missed my point again. Whether you're not reading correctly, not paying attention, or deliberately ignoring it in the interest of creating obfuscation is anybody's guess.

I have stated several times now that there are both objective and subjective considerations in the question of value.

Right. Value is subjectively objective .. or something.

Do these sorts of considerations, even taken all together, justify a 200% markup in price? I think it's fair to say that no, that kind of price hike would represent pretty extreme overvaluation.

You are back to the 200% lie again, I see. Carry on.

 

[John Albert]

Yes, and yes. It's a lot more effective than merely dimming the display, although I do that too.

But as Brian pointed out, in that case it must necessarily limit the color palette of the display. Besides that, dimming the backlighting also has the added benefit of reducing power consumption, which darkening the pixels will not do.

Er, I'm pretty sure all modern phones and tablets already do this.

Not all of them do, but many of the higher-end ones do.