Origin of the paint that was found as red-gray chips - any ideas?

[leftysergeant]

Hmm.

I have never seen paper get hot enough to melt steel?

I have never seen jet fuel burn hot enough to melt steel?

I have never seen plastics burn hot enough to melt steel?

They do get hot enough to weaken steel. It only takes about 1000 F. I have seen jet fuel burn hot enough to melt aluminum. That is also hot enough to warp steel.

You should consider the 'rate that the energy is released', rather than the total amount of energy released.

Well, there is no indication that there was any unusually rapid release of energy. It took about an hour to collapse the towers.

 

[leftysergeant]

The BIG LIE is much more palatable than the truth.

MM

Which explains why twoofers believe the crap they do.

 

[OCaptain]

Which explains why twoofers believe the crap they do.

Gatekeeper!!!

 

[Miragememories]

"That they were only partially-ignited argues against their being thermite."

That argument fails.

The massive amount of pulverization occurring during the collapses would have resulted in a large amount of unspent thermitic chips.

There is no reason to believe that the collapses waited until all the thermitic material was ignited.

"The fact that they look exactly like paint chips and are made of exactly the same things of which paint is made."

In spite of the LIE that is the topic of this thread, your statement is nothing more than wishful thinking.

"No it isn't. As for dork boy Harrit's performing his tests in an oxygen-rich atmosphere, he has just proven that the chips act in the same way that paint does. Hit a paint chip with a welding torch and it goes "poof!"

"dork boy"?
Is that a technical term or just a reflection of your desperate need to substitute insults in place of evidence.

"...Hog snot. You are lecturing chemists, engineers and veteran fire fighters, some of whom (like myself) have actually made and dem,onstrated the use of thermite in arson and demolitions. It is fools who believe a lying scumbag like Bollyn or Hufschmid or failed scientists like Jeff King or Jones or Harrit who are spouting crap."

He is lecturing a vast array of forum members who can mimic any profession they wish with impunity or professional disgrace.

I can give the author of this lying thread credit for one thing, he may mimic every useful profession and personal style in the book, but he does not claim to have any professional qualifications what-so-ever.

"His modern-day accolytes have applied his lessons well in promulgating Da Twoof."

And what do you feel you are doing that is so different, all in the name of the unproven Official Story?

MM

 

[Miragememories]

Hi All, I'd like to remind you the first truther's article reacting to Jim Millette's study. The title "What Does it Mean for the 9/11 Truth Movement if James R. Millette Proves Nano-thermite Wasn't Used to Take down the WTC Towers on 9/11?" is interesting. John-Michael P. Talboo is an author.
Here is another fresh article.

I see nothing objectionable in that blog entry.

It is surprising you even mentioned it Ivan?

MM

 

[leftysergeant]

In spite of the LIE that is the topic of this thread, your statement is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Stop that. There is nothing in the chips that should not be in either of the two red primers used in the towers, and nothing unique to thermite and much that serves no purpose in thermite other than to retard it.

"dork boy"?
Is that a technical term or just a reflection of your desperate need to substitute insults in place of evidence.

It's another word for schmendrick or schmuck. The doofus is another failed academic like Jones. I use such terms when referring to the blithering idiot because so much of what he wrote fails the laugh test. The dumb SOB doesn't even seem to know what paint is made of. He is sadly lacking in many of the taslents required in his chosen profession. He is no forensic expert, for sure. I expect a chemist fit to teach a high school class to know what kaolinite looks like.

And what do you feel you are doing that is so different, all in the name of the unproven Official Story?

You don't get to do that. Prove that anything that the clown crew found should not be in paint, or that they have to be in thermite. Otherwise you have a double handful of balloon juice.

 

[leftysergeant]

I see nothing objectionable in that blog entry.

It is surprising you even mentioned it Ivan?

MM

Did you miss that idiotic embedded video claiming that nano-sized platelettes of Al,Si and O are unusual in ordinary paint?

The dork is basing a vast theory on a half-vast data base.

 

[GlennB]

That they were only partially-ignited argues against their being thermite.

That argument fails.

The massive amount of pulverization occurring during the collapses would have resulted in a large amount of unspent thermitic chips.

There is no reason to believe that the collapses waited until all the thermitic material was ignited.

Lefty is, I believe, referring to the fact that, in the Bentham 'experiments', the chips didn't combust to completion and not to the fact that all the therm?te should have been consumed before/during the collapse.

Do you still seriously believe this stuff was painted on, btw?

 

[Miragememories]

"...Few if any genuine sceptics left. Lots of trolls, no genuine truthers I can identify posting on this forum. I'm sure some members will write some rebuttals - good for them. Not for me.

If we keep the perspective and context the whole of the thermXte debate is a trolls red herring..."

You have a real thing for calling honest disagreement, trolling.

Official Story promoters here are constantly making trolling posts and trolling threads clearly designed to provoke rather than enlighten. Yet you rarely make note of such behavior.

And just because you have made an argument countless times, that does not mean that people who still want to argue the point are trolls.

No one forces you to participate here ozeco41.

MM

 

[leftysergeant]

Lefty is, I believe, referring to the fact that, in the Bentham 'experiments', the chips didn't combust to completion and not to the fact that all the therm?te should have been consumed before/during the collapse.

Both, actually. For there to have been so many chips in the dust that nearly everybody who has dust has a significant number of them tells me that an enormous quantity of the substance failed to ignite, which is really wierd for thermite, but totally predictable for paint.

 

[chrismohr]

Oystein,

Just got this back from Jim Millette:

Chris,
In Gettens, R.J. and Stout, G. L., “Painting Materials”, Dover Publications, 1966 lists strontium chromate, SrCrO4 as taking the form of blades or needles which are pale yellow by transmitted light and are strongly birefracting. We have not identified any strontium chromate in our samples as yet. Jim

 

[Oystein]

Thanks, Chris. Yes, the description of the appearance of SrCrO4 sounds correct and is what I expected. We have no visual light images from Harrit e.al. and I can't know if the two needles I saw that I suspect are SrCrO4 do in fact appear pale yellow on transmission microscopy.
No problem if they haven't found anything yet, but good to know they are looking.

All others: I think it's fine to take note of that 911blogger post. I think Sunstealer and ozeco summarized it well. If MM doesn't see what's wrong with it, I guess we all understand that he is hopeless, and maybe it is best not to argue endlessly with him. It's not advancing the thread topic, in my opinion. He just demonstrates the ignorance that we have to expect from trutherdom. Acknowledge, and leave it be

 

[BasqueArch]

Re: Steel anticorrosion primers in the TT:
Table abbreviated. Tons for both Towers.
My primer notes in ( ) added

Table 3–5. Steel companies involved in WTC construction and their contracts.

Fabricator ..........Component ..........Tons
Pacific Car and Foundry Co. Exterior columns and spandrels ( Tnemec 99) 55,800
Montague Betts Co., Inc Rolled columns and beams above 9th floor (Primer unknown) 25,900
Pittsburgh-Des Moines Steel Co. Bifurcation columns 4th to 9th floor (Tnemec 69,95 primer) 6,800
Atlas Machine & Iron Works Box columns below the bifurcation columns to 4th Floor (Primer unknown) 13,600
Mosher Steel Co. Core box columns below the 9th floor (Primer unknown) 13,000
Stanray Pacific Corp. Core box columns above the 9th floor (Primer unknown) 31,100
Levinson Steel Co. Supports for slabs below grade (Primer unknown) 12,000
Laclede Steel Co. Floor trusses [Tonnage 24,000 from link below] (Laclede primer)
Drier Structural Steel Co., Inc. Grillages Unknown tonnage (Primer unknown)
Total 141,170 tons [bad math]

NCSTAR 1-3A http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire05/PDF/f05157.pdf

Total tonnage ~ 190,000 tons of steel for both Towers

Laclede tonnage from http://survivethejivealive.blogspot.com/

As far as I could find, the NIST Tnemec primer spec (Tnemec 69,95)came from Piitsburg-De Moines Steel Co, who only fabricated the 4th to 9th floor exterior columns.
NCSTAR 1-3C
ETA: Found Tnemec 99 specified by Pacific Car Foundry for their exterior columns. It appears this is Pacific's specs for their primer for their work. "Please find PCH (Pacific Car and Foundry) painting spcecifications ..." Tnemec 99
NCSTAR 1-6A
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build05/PDF/b05035.pdf


Approximately 94,600 tons of steel with known primers (Tnemec and Laclede. Leclede primer for the trusses may represent more paint by steel weight, due to their greater surface area to weight ratio) ; 95,400 tons with unknown steel primers.
This may explain other steel anti-corrosion primer paints that may be found.

ETA: I see Oystein, Lefty and Ivan talked about this some months ago. This at least further defines and quantifies.
Had I read their posts, I would have been reading the Sunday NY Times at Starbucks instead.

 

[Justin39640]

More attempted "well poisoning".

MM

You can't poison a well that has no water.

 

[Miragememories]

Thanks, Chris. Yes, the description of the appearance of SrCrO4 sounds correct and is what I expected. We have no visual light images from Harrit e.al. and I can't know if the two needles I saw that I suspect are SrCrO4 do in fact appear pale yellow on transmission microscopy.
No problem if they haven't found anything yet, but good to know they are looking.

All others: I think it's fine to take note of that 911blogger post. I think Sunstealer and ozeco summarized it well. If MM doesn't see what's wrong with it, I guess we all understand that he is hopeless, and maybe it is best not to argue endlessly with him. It's not advancing the thread topic, in my opinion. He just demonstrates the ignorance that we have to expect from trutherdom. Acknowledge, and leave it be

So far you are batting "zero" on your paint proof.

Which is what I expected.

MM

 

[Miragememories]

"That they were only partially-ignited argues against their being thermite...."

"That argument fails.

The massive amount of pulverization occurring during the collapses would have resulted in a large amount of unspent thermitic chips.

There is no reason to believe that the collapses waited until all the thermitic material was ignited."

"Lefty is, I believe, referring to the fact that, in the Bentham 'experiments', the chips didn't combust to completion and not to the fact that all the therm?te should have been consumed before/during the collapse.

Do you still seriously believe this stuff was painted on, btw?"

What?

Lefty is so busy cut 'n pasting he needs you to explain what he is supposed to believe?

You wish to quibble about whether ignition was 100% when we know there was a level of contamination?

Regarding "painting on", as I recall, my only comments were in support of Dr. Jones's reasonable notion that because nanothermite has a relatively low ignition temperature (430 C), a version applied as paint could very well have been used as a trigger for bulk quantities of thermitic material requiring very high ignition temperatures.

MM

 

[plague311]

What?

Lefty is so busy cut 'n pasting he needs you to explain what he is supposed to believe?

You wish to quibble about whether ignition was 100% when we know there was a level of contamination?

Regarding "painting on", as I recall, my only comments were in support of Dr. Jones's reasonable notion that because nanothermite has a relatively low ignition temperature (430 C), a version applied as paint could very well have been used as a trigger for bulk quantities of thermitic material requiring very high ignition temperatures.
MM

So the nano thermite was used an ignition to the "source" of the thermite? Why? What would this achieve other than adding another process onto the already complicated theory of:

A) How they got the massive amount of thermite into to the building?
B) How the bomb dogs missed not 1, but 2 types of thermite being applied?
C) How the materials made it through, undamaged or ignited, when the plane hit the towers?
D) How not one person saw the extreme bright light that is emitted when thermite is triggered? (outside of one video, on one section of the tower, that could be a few different things.

If these get answered, I'll drink the Kool-Aid. OOOHHH YYYEEEEAAAAAHHHHH

 

[ozeco41]

So the nano thermite was used an ignition to the "source" of the thermite? Why? What would this achieve other than adding another process onto the already complicated theory ....

The process of adding layers of complication to prop up ridiculous claims goes exponential ...

...as I recall Ryan Mackey has described the process in one of his papers.

I don't often quote Occam - he gets misused too much...

...but the simple reality is there was no demolition.

Therefore no need for thermXte in any form. The issue of thermite only arose as a desperate play for attention by S Jones. Its interesting that it still has a life. Shades of Joseph Smith or Mary Baker Eddy.

 

[Edx]

Regarding "painting on", as I recall, my only comments were in support of Dr. Jones's reasonable notion that because nanothermite has a relatively low ignition temperature (430 C), a version applied as paint could very well have been used as a trigger for bulk quantities of thermitic material requiring very high ignition temperatures.

Excuse my ignorance, but are you saying you agree with Steven Jones that has said nano thermite can be painted into steel and that when it dries it becomes a "high explosive" as he said in the Jesse Ventura show on 911?

 

[GlennB]

Regarding "painting on", as I recall, my only comments were in support of Dr. Jones's reasonable notion that because nanothermite has a relatively low ignition temperature (430 C), a version applied as paint could very well have been used as a trigger for bulk quantities of thermitic material requiring very high ignition temperatures.

Painted on to what, then? Ordinary thermite? How would that work, when thermite is a powder? And why? Why faff around this way when other thermitic devices just use magnesium ribbon or similar to ignite them?

Meanwhile you imply that this other bulk "thermitic material" isn't nano-thermite - as it requires nano-thermite to ignite it - so why is there so much (according to you and the Bentham folks) nano-thermite in the WTC dust?

Or are the chips just plain thermite after failing to be ignited by their nano-fuse? Ah no, the ignition temperature is too low....

MM - stop making up stuff as you go and talking utter bollocks, if only for your own good.