Gay by choice?

[joobz]

Honestly, I feel that sexual orientation is a choice in the same way that one's weight is a choice.

One can't flip a mental switch today and suddenly be fifty pounds lighter. Nor do normal people make a conscious, deliberate choice to be overweight or thin or athletic. And there is certainly a large element that is biological, in that people respond to food and stress differently and some bodies are much more likely to shed pounds or pick them up. However, longterm changes in lifestyle do affect weight, musculature, and body mass. We may not have had much choice in what we were fed as children or what our genes say, but we can make decisions as to what we're going to eat now that have a future effect on our body shape and health.

Sexual attraction is the same way. We may not have had much say over our biology or our childhood experiences, but the exposure and experiences I choose to have today can affect my sexual proclivities and reactions in the future.

This is a good analogy.
It also explains well how not each and every person will have the exact same "healthy setpoint"
Just like you wouldn't say 170lbs is a healthy weight for someone 4'10". But for someone 5'10-11", it may be ideal.

 

[Sledge]

Le syndrome simien vert

But I don't even own a hovercraft.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

So in lieu of not knowing for sure, we'll just assume that our personal beliefs are correct and criticise anyone who says they feel differently?

(Assuming this is directed at me)

If you read the interview, you will see that she admits being bisexual and chooses to identify as gay (she even accidentally identifies as bi). She was talking about identity, but then complained about gay people who say their orientation is not a choice. Ignoring the absurdity, I get her personal feelings about being labeled "bisexual". My problem is how she has publicly tried to deal with it.

 

[curi0us]

However, if she feels it is a choice in her case, so what? Why should she lie about her feelings just because they might be distorted to play into the agenda of bigots?

It's probably more accurate to her call her really confused rather then lying. Here is a little more from Nixon that makes it clear that her choosing to describe herself as something other then bisexual is a result of her internalized bigotry against bisexuals:


"I don't pull out the 'bisexual' word because nobody likes the bisexuals. Everybody likes to dump on the bisexuals," she said.

When the writer said that bisexual is the "B" in LGBT, Nixon responded, "I know, but we get no respect."

"You just said 'we,' so you must self-identify as one," the writer continued.

"I just don't like to pull out that word," the actress explained.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-57365588-10391698/cynthia-nixon-says-shes-gay-by-choice/

 

[truethat]

Personally I have always thought she was a completely repulsive person. I never watched SATC but could never figure out how the chinless wonder was ever cast on that show.

She's trying to save face for her kids. Her kids are probably confused and now that she's had another baby with her wife, the kids might feel like she's turned her back on her "old life." That's how I'm taking it.

She doesn't have to say it's not a choice. She could just shut the ◊◊◊◊ up about it. Seriously

 

[Caper]

Male heterosexual. I wasn't trying to be gay, just wanted to see if I could double my pool of potential sex partners by enjoying guys as well as gals. Turns out I couldn't just make myself like guys through sheer force of will

Wow. That is crazy. Man you read about some strange stuff on this site.

 

[crimresearch]

But I don't even own a hovercraft.

Luvs ya ;-}

 

[applecorped]

I am not gay, but I am willing to learn.

 

[cambion]

"I don't pull out the 'bisexual' word because nobody likes the bisexuals. Everybody likes to dump on the bisexuals," she said.

When the writer said that bisexual is the "B" in LGBT, Nixon responded, "I know, but we get no respect."

Ah. Well, if she said that, then I agree. There's nothing defensible about either of those statement.

 

[crimresearch]

Because no true gay person would ever say that? (rolleyes).

 

[cambion]

Because no true gay person would ever say that? (rolleyes).

Ooh, you knowingly used a no true scot to make a straw man argument. That's gotta be some kind of ironic first.

 

[crimresearch]

Ooh, you knowingly used a no true scot to make a straw man argument. That's gotta be some kind of ironic first.

Is that all you've got? Projecting the fallacies onto the person who called them?

Spare me the 'nuh uh, you're one too' garbage.

 

[cambion]

Wrong. You misrepresented what I said.

My statement did not in any way imply that no gay person would ever say something like that. She identifies as being gay, and she said something stupid about bisexuals. So obviously a gay person might say such a thing.

 

[RockNroll]

Wow. That is crazy. Man you read about some strange stuff on this site.

You think a guy engaging in some bi-curious experimentation to see whether he likes it or not is "crazy" and "strange"? May I suggest going out more?

 

[Rasmus]

Wrong. You misrepresented what I said.

My statement did not in any way imply that no gay person would ever say something like that. She identifies as being gay, and she said something stupid about bisexuals. So obviously a gay person might say such a thing.

I thought we were agreed that she ain't gay?

 

[cambion]

I thought we were agreed that she ain't gay?

Ah, I forgot that the top part of curious' post said as much, so I see why my reply was misleading. What I meant is that I agree that those statements were indefensible, which after reading the whole post again, wasn't really curious' point. So my bad.

So to be clear, I'm still perfectly fine with her identifying as gay. If she just does so because she's afraid of the bi label for some reason, I guess that's her problem, but I don't really see any reason to stick my nose into her sexual identity just because I might disagree with her reasoning behind it.

 

[Mark6]

If someone is bisexual, but they have a higher attraction to the same sex and decide to pursue it indefinitely rather than the other, does that constitute gay by choice?

I would not phrase it that way, but Cynthia Nixon apparently does.

More interestingly, if someone is bisexual, but they have a higher attraction to the opposite sex and decide to pursue it indefinitely rather than the other, isn't that straight by choice? To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever uses "straight by choice" in that context (and hardly ever at all).

[Edited] Somewhat more seriously, I am convinced most people are least somewhat bisexual. If you make a scale with 0 meaning "totally gay, cannot possibly have sex with opposite sex", and 100 meaning the opposite, most people would fall somewhere in between. But if you fall anywhere above 50 on that scale, it is exceedingly unlikely for you do engage in same-sex relationship. Why would you? It is not your first choice, and there are large social drawbacks. OTOH, if you are at 40-45 on that scale, being "straight by choice" is a real possibility. Even though it is not their first choice.

 

[Dessi]

Because no true gay person would ever say that? (rolleyes).

Ooh, you knowingly used a no true scot to make a straw man argument. That's gotta be some kind of ironic first.

Is that all you've got? Projecting the fallacies onto the person who called them?

Spare me the 'nuh uh, you're one too' garbage.

Will have to agree with cambion. Your comment makes absolutely no sense, except to criticize an argument that no one made.

Tsusaka Buddha's comment captures the criticism perfectly: Ms Nixon's choice of words, that she is "gay by choice", is a deliberately misleading form of equivocation.

The choice of headline is meant to draw in viewers, particularly the homophobes who might say "omg, this woman actually chooses to be attracted to women, that proves it, being gay is a choice! Gays can choose to be straight, ha ha!" -- then she talks about something totally different, identity and labels. She dislikes the bi label, prefers gay instead.

I can understand why bi people do that for a few reasons. 1) There's a slight stigma attached to bisexual people, particularly for men more than than women. 2) Some bi people fall predominately closer to one side of the Kinsey scale than another, making them feel closer or further from the gay/straight communities than the bisexual community. 3) Some bisexual people are romantically attracted to one gender, while being sexually attracted to both, or attracted to just plain gayness, how on earth do they label that without explaining the nuances of their sexual orientation for the rest of their life?

Whatever the case, criticism of Ms Nixon comes from her not particularly helpful equivocation between sexual orientation and sexual orientation identity, not whether her comments are what a "true" gay person would say.

 

[Antiquehunter]

My issue with this, is that she seems to have purposefully chosen a word that is particularly 'loaded' in the broader GLBT areana. Largely because of the nonsense that gay people are believed to be 'broken' and 'fixable' by certain idiots - 'fixable' through therapy etc...

If she's trying to state that she is attracted to both sexes, and actively CHOOSES to be in relationship with another woman, then sure - she is making a 'choice'. That is a bit foreign to me, because I'm not bisexual - not the least bit.

Its unfortunate she didn't find a better way to describe this, because I do expect this quote will be abused by those who are trying to turn back the clock on GLBT rights.

 

[crimresearch]

Will have to agree with cambion. Your comment makes absolutely no sense, except to criticize an argument that no one made.

Tsusaka Buddha's comment captures the criticism perfectly: Ms Nixon's choice of words, that she is "gay by choice", is a deliberately misleading form of equivocation.

The choice of headline is meant to draw in viewers, particularly the homophobes who might say "omg, this woman actually chooses to be attracted to women, that proves it, being gay is a choice! Gays can choose to be straight, ha ha!" -- then she talks about something totally different, identity and labels. She dislikes the bi label, prefers gay instead.

I can understand why bi people do that for a few reasons. 1) There's a slight stigma attached to bisexual people, particularly for men more than than women. 2) Some bi people fall predominately closer to one side of the Kinsey scale than another, making them feel closer or further from the gay/straight communities than the bisexual community. 3) Some bisexual people are romantically attracted to one gender, while being sexually attracted to both, or attracted to just plain gayness, how on earth do they label that without explaining the nuances of their sexual orientation for the rest of their life?

Whatever the case, criticism of Ms Nixon comes from her not particularly helpful equivocation between sexual orientation and sexual orientation identity, not whether her comments are what a "true" gay person would say.

The assertion has been repeatedly made in this thread that by claiming choice, Ms. Nixon is wrong and more specifically that she must be bisexual because no true gay person would say that it is a choice.
The labels 'confused' and 'unclear' as well as the insistence that she is 'really bi' make that clear. Lumping her in with homophobes carries my point over the top.

The fact is that all the science we have on human development indicates that life isn't as simple or one dimensional as 100% genetic.

Applying such fallacies in the same manner as those invested in woo-woo and blind faith to this topic helps no one.

You don't get to say what she is, any more than you get to say that a man who identifies as a woman isn't what they claim they are.

If people don't like having the mirror held up to their own biases, there is a simple solution.